Batspeed

[BrandoFan]

Does Hurt have any batspeed left, or is he pretty much good for walks, occasional single and maybe once in a blue moon a crushed mistake? When someone like Sheffiled or Bonds or Delgado or Manny Ramirez or Sosa stays back on a pitch little longer, they can afford it and can adjust and catch up with a pitcher's pitch because of ungodly batspeed. Frank Thomas's bat is slow- he fouls pitches right down the middle off and misses them way too much. Sooner or later pitchers will stop being afraid of him and won't walk him nearly as much.

 

What's wrong with the dude? Why can't he be like he was in '93? He is only 34, the same age as Lois Gonzalez who is thriving. Edgar is 40 and Bonds is 39 and Palmeiro is 38 and yet their bats are as potent as ever. Sosa would hit 80 homers with the line-up protection Frank gets. It's embrassing.

[DonkeyKongerko]

Does Hurt have any batspeed left or is he pretty much good for walks, occasional single and maybe once in a blue moon a crushed mistake?    When someone like Sheffiled or Bonds or Delgado or Manny Ramirez or Sosa stays back on a pitch little longer, they can afford it and can adjust and catch up with a pitcher's pitch because of ungodly batspeed.  Frank Thomas's bat is slow- he fouls pitches right down the middle off and misses them way too much.  Sooner or later pitchers will stop being afraid of him and won't walk him nearly as much.  

 

What's wrong with the dude?  Why can;t he be like he was in 93?  He is only 34.  Edgar is 40 and Bonds is 39 and Palmeiro is 38 and yet their bats are as potent as ever.  Sosa would hit 80 homers with the line-up protection Frank gets.  It's embrassing.

I don't know I haven't seen the measurements on his batspeed, but I don't think that is his only problem. He is always trying to work a walk making him by far the most patient hitter on our team. Unfortunately the secret is out that you basically can throw two cookies to Frank and not have him take a cut. Thomas has not been a very effective two strike hitter either. He does foul off a few but his plate protection is nowhere near the ability of Maggs to reach out and poke those outside fastballs and chop those inside cutters. Frank works himself into holes way too often when sometimes he needs to be more aggressive. I just wish Maggs could be more of an example where other guys are wanting to learn to approach an AB the way he does. Frank has always been a little stubborn and Maggs doesn't speak English that well so I guess that won't work out. God forbid Frank would swing at a first pitch fastball but at least I'd like to see him taking a few more swings at that 0-1 pitch that is usually also right down the middle. At least he isn't jumping out of the way of curveballs over the inside corner where he ends up jacknifing out of the batters box and getting called out on strikes simultaneously. I have quite a few ugly memories of that from the past 2 seasons.

[clujer420]

Does Hurt have any batspeed left, or is he pretty much good for walks, occasional single and maybe once in a blue moon a crushed mistake?    When someone like Sheffiled or Bonds or Delgado or Manny Ramirez or Sosa stays back on a pitch little longer, they can afford it and can adjust and catch up with a pitcher's pitch because of ungodly batspeed.  Frank Thomas's bat is slow- he fouls pitches right down the middle off and misses them way too much.  Sooner or later pitchers will stop being afraid of him and won't walk him nearly as much. 

 

What's wrong with the dude?  Why can't he be like he was in '93?  He is only 34, the same age as Lois Gonzalez who is thriving.  Edgar is 40 and Bonds is 39 and Palmeiro is 38 and yet their bats are as potent as ever.  Sosa would hit 80 homers with the line-up protection Frank gets.  It's embrassing.

You know what...

 

We're 7 f***ing games into the season, and after hitting nearly .400 in the Spring, Frank's OBP is .500.

 

Frank is a notoriously slow starter, so I'm rather pleased with his performance so far. If you're not, that's fine -- but that doesn't mean the sky is falling.

 

Give the man time to get into the groove, and once he does and the weather warms up, he'll be just fine.

 

And to say that he is embarassing is a nimrod comment. We'll see how "embarassing" he is at the end of the season when he's got Frank-like numbers, and we'll also see how embarassing he is when he's giving his speech at Cooperstown after being a first-ballot HOF'er.

[BrandoFan]

We'll see how "embarassing" he is at the end of the season when he's got Frank-like numbers

 

I am not saying he is terrible, but he ain't old Frank and hasn;t been one in the 4 f the last 5 years, 6 if you include this one. I think his bat has slowed which mean he can no longer afford to practically follow the pitch into a catcher's glove before hacking at it and will have to "cheat" more and more, something that 90% players not named Bonds/Ramirez/Thome/Pujols/etc must do to survive.

 

If he puts up 1000+ OPS and 130+ RBIs (with this line-up he betta), my girlfriend will run down the street butt naked.

[BrandoFan]

I wouldn't mind a Hurt/Colon/Valenzula/Ginter for Sosa/Clement trade. Would you?

[baggio202]

I wouldn't mind a Hurt/Colon/Valenzula/Ginter for Sosa/Clement trade. Would you?

you got to be kidding??..right

[clujer420]

If he puts up 1000+ OPS and 130+ RBIs (with this line-up he betta), my girlfriend will run down the street butt naked.

2 questions...

 

1) Do you live anywhere near where I do? Otherwise, your GF running down the road naked won't do my eyes much good...

 

and 2) Would I WANT to see your GF running down the road naked?

[Soxbadger]

To ensure no bias, I used the examples of Brandofan, so people can not say I just chose names that fit my argument.

 

From ESPN:

 

NAME G AB R H 2B 3B HR TB RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS

 

Frank Thomas 6 21 1 5 0 0 1 8 3 8 6 0 0 .238 .469 .381 .850

 

 

Manny Ramirez 7 29 5 8 3 0 0 11 5 3 4 0 0 .276 .333 .379 .713

 

Jim Thome 6 24 4 10 3 1 0 15 4 4 5 0 0 .417 .500 .625 1.125

 

Albert Pujols 5 18 5 6 2 0 2 14 6 3 3 0 0 .333 .429 .778 1.206

 

Sammy Sosa 6 20 5 6 0 0 1 9 6 12 4 0 0 .300 .576 .450 1.026

 

Barry Bonds 6 20 7 4 1 0 2 11 5 7 6 1 0 .200 .407 .550 .957

 

When you look at these stats its pretty hard to say that Thomas is doing all that bad. In fact hes hitting better than Bonds with a higher on base percentage then everyone besides for Sosa and Thome.

 

Thomas ops and slg are down, but he usually hits the bulk of his home runs during the summer, and those are the months when his batting average is highest.

 

Personally getting on base almost half the time is good enough for me, and it getting on base and looking at pitchs usually leads to higher batting average and slg.

 

I believe Frank will have a great year.

 

SB

[clujer420]

I wouldn't mind a Hurt/Colon/Valenzula/Ginter for Sosa/Clement trade. Would you?

you got to be kidding??..right

He's 1 Tuesday too late -- April 1 was LAST Tuesday.

[BrandoFan]

Back to batspeed? Has it slowed down compared to 1993-97 or not? If not, then how do you explain the decline in his numbers even as overall offensive output went up throughout baseball? Afterall, Frank's legendary "eye" is only supposed get better with age...

 

It has to be something in the swing itself from the look of it. Mayne I am wrong.

 

 

 

And, yeah, as much as I hate him, I'd LOVE to have Sosa bat 3rd in the next 2-3 years.

[witesoxfan]

That is a terrible deal. We're giving up a better all-around hitter in Thomas, bringing in a bigger ego than Thomas has, bringing in a worse pitcher than Colon, and then giving up 2 decent minor leaguers as well.

 

We're a team that doesn't K much....and I'm happy about that. I would never ever wanna be on the bad end of Osuna striking out SamME to end the game and than see Osuna pump his fist. I'd get pissed off. And if we got off to a 25-35 start or something....Sosa would be giving up already. He's worse defensively than Maggs....he's got a terribly inaccurate arm, and all he does is hop, skip, stutter step, and blow kisses to the camera.

 

I'd be happy with a .275 30 100 season from Frank instead of having ShamME So-So.

[BrandoFan]

We're giving up a better all-around hitter in Thomas...I'd be happy with a .275 30 100 season from Frank instead of having ShamME So-So.

 

Granted the trade proposal was for s***s and giggles...but I disagree with the above vehemently. The only reason why Cubs wil even think about making this trade is the fact that Sammy makes 3 times as much as Thomas, but then again, outside of Bonds he draws the most fans and revenues, so the difference is more than made up. That's it- otherwise you are getting a guy who is almost guaranteed 1000 OPS in Sosa, the guy who can still play adequate left with srong arm and is hell a lot faster than Hurt. With this line-up Sosa would have 150-160 RBIs. Meanwhile there is no DH in NL, lol

 

Valenzula is Cubs' Zuleta until proven otherwise. Ginter is a nobody. Colon is going to demand 12-14 million after this season whereas Clement may only ask for 6-7 and he is not a significant downgrade. Sosa will outproduce Hurt and Hurt is almost certain to want out at the first opportunity. We know JR is tight with money and there is no way something like this will ever materialize, but outfield of Sosa-Borchard-Maggs looks promising even if only in a pipe dream.

[southsider2k5]

Frank's OBP is .500.

 

OK I just want to ask, so what? Frank is hitting .238. He has 5 hits and 8 walks which is what gives him his huge OBP. My question is why would you use his 8 walks to justify his bat speed? That doesn't make any sense to me?

[SoxFan1]

Frank will be fine! I am officially making a Fan-Club. It s the "The Big Hurt Fan-Club" if you want to be in it, just PM me! Ill post an official roster!

[Chisoxfn]

I'm a member of the Big Hurt Fan Club. He's going to be a-ok. Also, the reason Franks numbers decreased were because of injuries and some struggles. Frank was never a guy that really relied on bat speed, imo. He used his eye and massive strength and has never tried to swing for the fences.

[Queen Prawn]

As much as they are pissing me off right now, I am not too terribly worried about Thomas, Maggs, Konerko or Lee yet. In any sense, KONERKO GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOU BEHIND BEFORE ALL OF THE CARDS I HAVE COLLECTED DEPRECIATE SO MUCH I HAVE TO PAY SOMEONE TO TAKE THEM OFF OF MY HANDS!!!!! Sorry, just had to get that off my chest!!!!

[SoxFan1]

I guess I'll be President. Chisoxfn, you could be Vice-President.

[BrandoFan]

Frank was never a guy that really relied on bat speed, imo

 

True, he was always the best at maintaining composure under pressure, reading the pitches well, picking up movement early, having excellent idea of the strike zone, unreal hand-eye coordination and massive strenght you mentioned to take the ball to opposite field because most pitcher's pitches were on the outer part of the plate. Ever since 98, they started busting him in and umpires decided that giving him benefit of the doubt on every call inside won't do. Long story short, Frank adjusted once, in 2000, but since then they just overmatched him inside. It's no secret that the only way to considtenly hit inside pitches is to have a great batspeed and I feel Frank's pretty slow for such a huge HOF'er...Plus his confidence or lack thereof messed up his timing.

 

There is no reason why Jim Thome had OPS a whopping 350 points higher than Hurt last year...unless Hurt is washed-up. That's all I am saying.

 

If on the other hand, his bat is as fast as it was in 94 and his "eye" is actually improving (as it should with all great hitters in their 30s), I guess he is due for 1200 OPS-type showing this year considering the line-up protection he has.

 

I hope I am proven wrong and made eat my words.

[YASNY]

First of all, Frank was recovering from a pretty bad injury last season. That may explain why Thome's OPS was so much higher than Frank's. Also, someone mentioned that Frank is not aggresive enough at the plate. Last year Frank's problem was that he was TOO aggresive. He had always been a patient hitter, and would wait till the pitcher had to come in with the pitch Frank wanted, or he would jump on a mistake pitch. Last year, the pitchers knew Frank would get himself out by hacking away, so they never gave him his pitch. Besides that, he saw fewer pitches by hacking away, and therefore saw less "mistakes". Frank has got the right mindset right now. If he stays patient, he will have Frank Thomas type numbers this year.

[Wong & Owens]

First of all, Frank was recovering from a pretty bad injury last season.  That may explain why Thome's OPS was so much higher than Frank's.  Also, someone mentioned that Frank is not aggresive enough at the plate.  Last year Frank's problem was that he was TOO aggresive.  He had always been a patient hitter, and would wait till the pitcher had to come in with the pitch Frank wanted, or he would jump on a mistake pitch.  Last year, the pitchers knew Frank would get himself out by hacking away, so they never gave him his pitch.  Besides that, he saw fewer pitches by hacking away, and therefore saw less "mistakes".  Frank has got the right mindset right now.  If he stays patient, he will have Frank Thomas type numbers this year.

I'm going with a mental angle on Frank. Don't think it has anything to do with his swing, or eye. I think he's constantly second-guessing himself, and that he's lost confidence. Anybody who's listened to him whine and pout over the years is aware that he definitely has a persecution complex, which is indicative of someone who is insecure. I'm no psychologist, but when I watch a lot of the outs Frank makes, he just doesn't look like he has any confidence in his plan at the plate. When we walks, you can almost see the look of relief on his face. Thoughts?

[Steff]

Back to batspeed?  Has it slowed down compared to 1993-97 or not?  If not, then how do you explain the decline in his numbers even as overall offensive output went up throughout baseball?  Afterall, Frank's legendary "eye" is only supposed get better with age...

 

It has to be something in the swing itself from the look of it.  Mayne I am wrong.

 

 

 

And, yeah, as much as I hate him, I'd LOVE to have Sosa bat 3rd in the next 2-3 years.

You're just not getting that "clubhouse chemistry" thing we talked about the other day, are you..?

[BrandoFan]

Besides that, he saw fewer pitches by hacking away, and therefore saw less "mistakes

 

So are you saying Frank Thomas is nothing but a mistake hitter now? So now poor, 10-million-a-year baby didn't get his steady diet of hanging curves and 88mph fastballs down the pipe?

Oh, shawks...I can understand this reasoning when talking about classic mistake hitters like Jose Valentin or Jeff Leifer, but Frank?

 

I guess noone is ready to comment on his batspeed...oh well.

[Steff]

Besides that, he saw fewer pitches by hacking away, and therefore saw less "mistakes

 

So are you saying Frank Thomas is nothing but mistake hitter now? So now poor, 10-million-a-year baby didn't get his steady diet of hanging curves and 88mph fastballs down the pipe?

Oh, shawks...I can understand this reasoning when talking about classic mistake hitters like Jose Valentin or Jeff Leifer, but Frank?

 

I guess noone is ready to comment on his batspeed...oh well.

Frank doesn't make $10 million a year.

[cwsox]

So are you saying Frank Thomas is nothing but mistake hitter now? So now poor, 10-million-a-year baby

 

Frank doesn't make $10 million a year.

Facts are such silly things!

 

I had a framer at the office today - delievered two framed items - both Comsksey related - one a lithograph of the old park and one a pennant from opening day of the new -

 

but what caught his eye is my huge framed poster of Frank. Frank is the only player whose poster I ever got framed because he is the best we have ever had. Next time you see him, tell him I love him!

[BrandoFan]

I'm going with a mental angle on Frank. Don't think it has anything to do with his swing, or eye. I think he's constantly second-guessing himself, and that he's lost confidence. Anybody who's listened to him whine and pout over the years is aware that he definitely has a persecution complex, which is indicative of someone who is insecure. I'm no psychologist, but when I watch a lot of the outs Frank makes, he just doesn't look like he has any confidence in his plan at the plate. When we walks, you can almost see the look of relief on his face. Thoughts

 

Not much to disagree with. Well done. If his mental problems are that bad, then no amount of batspeed can make up the difference: a superior batspeed allows a player to wait on a pitch a tenth of a second longer than most players, which is all that great hitters need...but a loss in confidence and delayed reaction costs a hitter 2 or 3 tenths of a second, thereby turning a possible double in the gap into a weak pop up, etc.

 

Frank doesn't make $10 million a year.

 

I was talking about last year, sweetie.