JUGGERNAUT Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Mike, I don't think that's the case. No arbitration offered = no draft pick compensation if I understand it correctly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Correct. Maggs 3 yr deal for 30M voided his remaining years of type ? arbitration. You only get compensation for Type A arbitration if you offer it. That's why Maggs comments sting a little. He's essentially saying that had the Sox offered him arbitration he would have accepted it. That removes the claim that it would have taken a 105/7 deal to retain Maggs in 05. What makes this all the worst for Sox fans is now it looks like KW would have been better off taking Maggs through arbitration. It certainly would have cost them less than 30M/3yr & I think under those circumstances because it's based on plate appearances for yrs of service Maggs would not have been a FA in 05. I may be wrong about that though. If KW & Sox fans are to learn anything from this it's that you should never over spend to avoid arbitration. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Feb 7, 2005 -> 05:38 PM) Seriously dude...give the guy a break....you're kind abeing an asswhole. Nah man, that asshole doesn't deserve a break. I'm sorry but he's the one who took his parting shots at the sox, he's the whiny ass baby, he deserved to get his ass booed, maggs=jackass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 i was wondering...do yous really think maggs wanted to stay? the sox offered 12 mil. a yr, he wanted 14. i dont think you leave because of 2 mil. he said he really wanted to stay. its like s***, u got enough money in the bank to last you the rest of your life. hes gonna die with millions in the bank, whats the difference between dyeing with like 20 million in the bank opposed to to like 25? i dont know, i was just wondering if yous thought he really wanted to stay. the reason i ask is because i dont see guys like buehrle and PK leaving over 1 mil or 2...i guess we'll find out with PK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Feb 7, 2005 -> 06:19 PM) Mike, I don't think that's the case. No arbitration offered = no draft pick compensation if I understand it correctly. Duh... nevermind. scratch the draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Feb 8, 2005 -> 12:25 AM) WOW, ptatc, you got the quickman Seal of Approval, that doesn't happen easily. Wait a minute, I'm not sure if that's good or bad. It never happens! The guy is brand new and he makes sense. Great combination. Wait till next week though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Feb 7, 2005 -> 05:58 PM) Whoa! Who brought Thomas into this? You're cracked out of your skull. For what Thomas has produced over his many years with the Sox & for what he's been compensated during that time he's been one of the best bargains in baseball. You can't compare Maggs to Thomas in that respect at all. Thomas never trashed the Sox. He's always been to smart for that. He trashed KW. He has always spoken very highly of the Sox & JR. When you consider that KW wanted to trade him every yr he's been GM you can't blame Thomas for thinking the way he does about him. In comparison I never heard KW talk about trading Maggs or use words that were anything close to disrespectful. It's two entirely different scenarios. Plus the final word between all 3: Maggs, Mark, & Frank is that Frank re-up'd when he had a chance to make more $, Mark re-up'd & Maggs said sayonara. That says more about the 3 players & their love & loyalty to the Sox than any newspaper quote. The bottom line is that if Maggs wanted to remain with the Sox bad enough he could have found a way to make that happen. I will not miss Maggs. I really didn't like him much for the 23M/2yr. I liked him a lot more before that. I will really miss Carlos. It's just starting to sink in. I don't know why it didn't before. But all this talk about being there & in the crowd now reminds me I won't see Carlos there any more. ( I think I'll be going to more Brewer games than ever before. Maybe I'll take a trip up there for that final ST series. Buerhle re upped with the Sox the same way Maggs re upped. Giving up a year or so of free agency for some solid cash now. Frank signed a contract and b****ed so much about it, his representives at the time, one being Scott Sanderson, a former teammate, fired HIM. KW had Maggs traded to Boston for Nomar if ARod wound up in Boston. Maggs signed a backloaded deal, to help the team out, and when it became time for the White Sox to pay him market value, they tried to dump him. And one more thing about Maggs newspaper quotes. Listen to him speak english, and then try to imagine he really said all of the things he supposedly did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Ok I am now caught up on this thread. I am older than many on this board and no longer carry attachments to players. I carry an insane attachment to the team. The issue is quite simple to me, Maggs is no longer on this team, he is playing for a division rival, when he was here he was great and I cheered for him and supported him. I respect him as a pro player, simular to respecting any great player, but he is now playing for the enemy. He is the enemy, and I will no longer be routing for him ever. He had his chance to resign and didn't take it. Its his choice, he chose, he gone, and I am gone as a fan of him. He will never receive another cheer from me again unless he comes back and plays for the team I am routing for. Its really that simple to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Feb 7, 2005 -> 06:41 PM) Ok I am now caught up on this thread. I am older than many on this board and no longer carry attachments to players. I carry an insane attachment to the team. The issue is quite simple to me, Maggs is no longer on this team, he is playing for a division rival, when he was here he was great and I cheered for him and supported him. I respect him as a pro player, simular to respecting any great player, but he is now playing for the enemy. He is the enemy, and I will no longer be routing for him ever. He had his chance to resign and didn't take it. Its his choice, he chose, he gone, and I am gone as a fan of him. He will never receive another cheer from me again unless he comes back and plays for the team I am routing for. Its really that simple to me. well said >why is everyone worrying about the draftpicks the sox would have gotten for maggs...KW would probably trade them, since he loves trading our young talent J/K besides they might not even have been good..its about luck too(buehrle 38th rd.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 As a Sox fan and Maggs fan, I was hoping he would end up with the Mets. If he's healthy he will cause problems for the White Sox 18-19 times a year, plus help a division rival. I am thankful he didn't sign with the Cubs as my dog is named Magglio, and living on the northside of Chicago, I definitely would have had to change his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Let's put aside all of the bias & try to think of this objectively. From the Sun-Times Couch article: Maggs: "I'm not happy I have to leave Chicago. I was hoping the White Sox would offer me arbitration. But they never called.'' If this is true, then I have to say KW dropped the ball. How can you believe otherwise? If Maggs had expressed a desire to play for the Sox for 1 more year via arbitration KW was a fool for not offering it. Did he never even bother to call Maggs or for that matter Couch to get a feel on this? I am not a Maggs supporter. I do not feel he produced enough to justify 23M/2yr & I do not believe he was overpaid when he made 6M. I'm quite certain that taking him through arbitration each yr would have been a lower cost to the Sox & would have made him ineligible for FA in 05. But I do believe he produced enough to where if he really wanted to play another yr for the Sox then KW should have felt obligated to do everything in his power to make that happen. I'm sure this isn't the end of this. There are two Chicago teams that have egg on their face right now. The Sox are one & the Cub are the other. That article rips the Cub just as much as it does the Sox. It essentially spells out that Maggs was willing to play another yr for the Sox or 2 yrs for the Cub. This doesn't speak well of either organization. It paints them as being cold & impersonal & not even willing to talk. Sox fans are waking up to the fact that they lost Maggs for the 05 season because the team didn't want to spend 12-13M to keep him. That's tough realization to swallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 my dog is named Magglio <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pro sports realities ... one reason my dog is named Daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Let's put aside all of the bias & try to think of this objectively. From the Sun-Times Couch article: Maggs: "I'm not happy I have to leave Chicago. I was hoping the White Sox would offer me arbitration. But they never called.'' If Maggs had expressed a desire to play for the Sox for 1 more year via arbitration KW was a fool for not offering it. you know why he was upset because the sox didnt offer arb. ? because if the sox were to offer arb. then they would have to atleast offer 12 mil and he wasnt sure if anyone was going to offer him a contract. maggs knew by the middle of the season he wouldnt return, he was talking to a reporter from the trib and he asked him what team he thought he would be on. everyone knew he wasnt returnung. >i dont really think any of the sox players are shedding tears because hes leaving, i havnt heard anyone say anything about caring hes gone. i think some of the players started to think he was greedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Feb 7, 2005 -> 06:26 PM) Alright come clean, what part of the medical field are you in? I am a physical therapist and athletic trainer. I've spent time in the Brewers and Marlins systems doing athletic training and research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Feb 8, 2005 -> 01:15 AM) I am a physical therapist and athletic trainer. I've spent time in the Brewers and Marlins systems doing athletic training and research. Well now you see, I can always spot talent. Thanks for the posts. Are You local? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I am a physical therapist and athletic trainer. I've spent time in the Brewers and Marlins systems doing athletic training and research. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very interesting. What, if anything, can you tell us about Scott Podsednik? Dave Wilder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Well now you see, I can always spot talent. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You can spot talent all right, but you always manage to scare it away. Oh my God, that was WAY too easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Juggs, I disagree. Maggs was probably waiting for that arbitration call well before the Tigers offered him this insane contract. There is no way in hell Maggs takes another year through arbitration and passes up a contract like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Feb 8, 2005 -> 01:19 AM) You can spot talent all right, but you always manage to scare it away. Oh my God, that was WAY too easy! PTATC- Pay no attention to the man behind the JimH Curtain. He comes from the land of oz. Another question if I may. Are you a sox fan or just a baseball fan. Doesn't matter I am just curious how you found the site and your affiliation with baseball today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Feb 7, 2005 -> 06:57 PM) Sox fans are waking up to the fact that they lost Maggs for the 05 season because the team didn't want to spend 12-13M to keep him. That's tough realization to swallow. Besides Texsox and Anthrax (whose hatred of Williams is unrelenting), who exactly is faulting Sox management for failing to pay 12-13mil in retaining Magglio? Of course now, after Detroit's offer is disclosed, you can debate what Williams should have done two months ago-- before Ordonez' exact health was known. All I know is this team is better off without Magglio, and whether or not Boras orchestrated this situation is no concern of mine. However, I would have been upset if Williams offered arbitration, Ordonez accepted, and we're left risking 12-13 million on ONE player unlikely to produce numbers worthy of that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 PTATC- Pay no attention to the man behind the JimH Curtain. He comes from the land of oz. Another question if I may. Are you a sox fan or just a baseball fan. Doesn't matter I am just curious how you found the site and your affiliation with baseball today. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ptatc, yes, curiosity is the order of the day here, I agree with Margaret Hamilton's question. Glad to have you here regardless, stick around. Being an athletic trainer I'm sure you also have a sense of humor. Whatever you do though, don't give quickman the Ruby Slippers ... he wants those badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Feb 7, 2005 -> 06:28 PM) If he's in the recreational drug business will someone let me know? Jimmy Fallon voice: "I'm juss keeeeding" Actually Fred Armisen, but a funny character nonetheless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Feb 8, 2005 -> 01:30 AM) ptatc, yes, curiosity is the order of the day here, I agree with Margaret Hamilton's question. Glad to have you here regardless, stick around. Being an athletic trainer I'm sure you also have a sense of humor. Whatever you do though, don't give quickman the Ruby Slippers ... he wants those badly. Ahh nice edit, doesn't have the same effect the second time. Looks like you scared him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Looks like you scared him off. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, your honor, I confess ... I did it. He was the best new addition since ... when did you sign up again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Feb 8, 2005 -> 01:40 AM) Yes, your honor, I confess ... I did it. He was the best new addition since ... when did you sign up again? Yes I agree a great new poster since I joined. Now on to magglio being the enemy. He is now dead to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Maggs has definitely made it easy to accept him as the enemy the way he left Chicago. I'm glad this team has moved him on. I think we'd still have a lot of question marks if Maggs was here; he would be one of them. We definitely wouldn't have a roster even close to what we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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