YASNY Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 First, it was the Cleveland Indians. One of the more hapless franchises in baseball history, they put a stranglehold on the American League Central, winning the division title in the first five years of three-division play and six of the first seven. They made it to the World Series twice, losing to Atlanta in 1995 and Florida in 1997. And now there are the Minnesota Twins. The team was so ignored by fans and ownership a few years ago it was the focal point of proposed contraction, yet it has won the AL Central the past three seasons. None of which settles well with the folks who run the Chicago White Sox. The White Sox have only one division title - in 2000 - to show for the 10-year existence of three divisions, and that doesn't cut it. So this off-season, the White Sox made as major an overhaul of their roster and approach to the game as any team. They have expressed a desire to replace their power-laden offense with one that creates runs. They have rearmed their rotation. And, for the second year in a row, they turned to Japan for a major addition. It's not everything the White Sox wanted. Heck, their original off-season plan was to add Randy Johnson, who went to the New York Yankees, and Javier Vazquez, who wound up in Arizona, to their rotation; Jason Kendall, now in Oakland, at catcher; and Omar Vizquel, who wound up in San Francisco, at shortstop. The White Sox went 0-for-4. But they didn't sulk. They did revamp the offense, giving up left fielder Carlos Lee's suspect defense but run-producing offense to add leadoff-hitting, base- stealing center fielder Scott Podsednik and the strong arm of right-handed setup reliever Luis Vizcaino. They brought in left-handed-hitting catcher A.J. Pierzynski for a more balanced lineup and signed outfielder Jermaine Dye. They also signed Orlando Hernandez to fill out the rotation, added Dustin Hermanson for bullpen depth and, in what might be the biggest impact move of all, signed Japanese second baseman Tadahito Iguchi, a smooth-fielding, run-producing base stealer who will slip nicely into the No. 2 slot in the lineup. "Do we have the dream team we envisioned at the end of last season? No, we do not," White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said. "But we were probably living in the stars. . . . I have big dreams and you cannot help but have your mind swayed by the best players in the game. And then you work back into reality." What reality says is the White Sox made some nice additions, but their success, as in the past, is going to hinge on the production of designated hitter Frank Thomas. He underwent surgery in October on his left ankle, remains in a walking cast and is uncertain for Opening Day. Off-season grade: B How the rest of the AL Central fared in the off-season: MINNESOTA general manager Terry Ryan is not afraid to make changes. He has budget limitations. He accepts them and he looks for ways to win. He had to say goodbye this winter to his starting shortstop, Cristian Guzman, who signed a four-year deal with Washington, and third baseman Corey Koskie, who got three years with Toronto. The key to Minnesota's survival the past three years creates hope for this season - the Twins' ability to fill holes from within. Rookie Jason Bartlett gets the opportunity at shortstop and Michael Cuddyer is going to step in at third base. As far as off-season shopping, Ryan was looking for Blue Light specials and came up with Mike Redmond, Juan Castro, Eric Munson, C.J. Nitkowski, Andy Fox and Armando Rios. It's not fancy. There is not much excitement. But it is the Twins way, turning what might seem average into the best the division has to offer. Off-season grade: C CLEVELAND has decided that, after two years of mediocrity, it is ready to contend again. The problem was getting the players who were available to share that opinion. The Indians wanted to add an impact pitcher and wound up taking a one-year gamble on Kevin Millwood, who has battled injuries that have limited him to fewer than 25 starts and 10 wins in two of the past four seasons. They added Aaron Boone at third base after signing him in the summer and overseeing his rehabilitation from left knee surgery. That means Casey Blake will move to the outfield in place of Matt Lawton, whom they were able to unload for a much-needed left-handed setup reliever, Arthur Rhodes. Cleveland did retain second baseman Ronnie Belliard, who is coming off a career season, but the Indians' skepticism he can pull off an encore became evident when they brought in Alex Cora and Warren Morris. Off-season grade: C DETROIT knows what rejection feels like. The Tigers signed closer Troy Percival, but then got used by free agents Adrian Beltre, Troy Glaus, Koskie and Steve Finley. Finally, they wound up bidding against themselves and giving a five-year contract - that's two more years than anybody else even considered - to outfielder Magglio Ordoñez, who remains a health risk after experimental surgery to alleviate swelling in his right knee. Off-season grade: C KANSAS CITY's biggest off-season move was to swap unwanted contracts with San Diego, the Royals getting outfielder Terrence Long from the Padres for left-handed pitcher Darrell May. Off-season grade: D Few and far between • The five-team American League Central includes four of the original eight AL franchises - Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and the Washington Senators, who became the Minnesota Twins in 1961. A combined 452 seasons among the five teams, including Kansas City, which made its debut in 1969, has produced only 12 world championships. World Series won by the AL Central. Team | W.S. wins | Years Chicago 2 1906, 1917 Cleveland 2 1920, 1948 Detroit 4 1935, 1945, 1968, 1984 Kansas City 1 1985 Minnesota 3 1924*, 1987, 1991*-Franchise Was Washington Senators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoIL Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Seems like a pretty accurate article. Thanks for posting it. Right now I feel like I've read enough of this stuff. All I want to hear is "play ball". I'm anxious to see this team perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Seems like a pretty accurate article. Thanks for posting it. Right now I feel like I've read enough of this stuff. All I want to hear is "play ball". I'm anxious to see this team perform. I thought an evaluation from not in Chicago or on the East Coast would be of interest. This being from a National League city, also eliminates any obvious bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 finally, a national writer with a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsonmi Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(poorme @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 08:06 AM) finally, a national writer with a clue. As a Colorado resident, I do generally respect Ringolsby's opinion. I don't always agree with him but unlike a lot of sports writers he's actually a pretty informed person. He's not a big Billy Beane worshipper either which I find refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Can't argue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I'm not trying to rehash the Lee trade. Ozzie clearly wanted to go in another direction and the Sox had been banging their heads against the wall since 2000. I'm A-OK with what KW did this off season. What I object to is the "suspect defense" of Lee mentioned in the article. Once you get a label I guess it's impossible to erase it. I know stat geeks will never be impressed with his perfect fielding percentage because of range factors and other assorted criteria. The man worked to become a good left fielder. He should get credit, so I'll give it to him even if I get blasted. He was awful, he worked hard and made himself better. Other guys did it and got credit for it. Not Carlos Lee. Now his base running? That's another story altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 In my opinion, Carlos worked hard to improve his defense, but he still qualified as "suspect" defensively. On his best day, Carlos was average. To top that off, when you hear that he would ignore coaches directions from the dugout when he was in the field, that says that not only were his skills suspect but his attitude was as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(Yossarian @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 11:04 AM) I'm not trying to rehash the Lee trade. Ozzie clearly wanted to go in another direction and the Sox had been banging their heads against the wall since 2000. I'm A-OK with what KW did this off season. What I object to is the "suspect defense" of Lee mentioned in the article. Once you get a label I guess it's impossible to erase it. I know stat geeks will never be impressed with his perfect fielding percentage because of range factors and other assorted criteria. The man worked to become a good left fielder. He should get credit, so I'll give it to him even if I get blasted. He was awful, he worked hard and made himself better. Other guys did it and got credit for it. Not Carlos Lee. Now his base running? That's another story altogether. actually, those stat geeks you spoke of, shouldnt be the ones to bash lee since he had a perfect fielding % last year and his zone rating was 3rd in the AL. His range factor was below average, but that doesnt tell nearly as much since that it largely dependent on the pitcher. Stat geeks would also point out that he lead the AL LFs with 11 assists. however, these are the very stats taht can be decieving...although i dont have numbers i will be willing to bet that lee failed to throw out more runners than just about anybody in the league, since everyone ran on him. I also know that Lee got to very few balls outside zone, something which good fielders should do. also his lack of errors could easily be seen in his passive approach at fielding. The stat nerds are the ones who overvalue Carlos, and the scouts in this case have it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 11:08 AM) In my opinion, Carlos worked hard to improve his defense, but he still qualified as "suspect" defensively. On his best day, Carlos was average. To top that off, when you hear that he would ignore coaches directions from the dugout when he was in the field, that says that not only were his skills suspect but his attitude was as well. I live over 800 miles away from Chicago so I'm limited in how many games I can view on the boob tube let alone live. Those closer to the situation and with a good reputation IMHO say he worked hard to improve his defense. This is a perfect example of "perception is reality". The guy is never going to get any props. He could make one Jim Edmunds like catch every week and it still won't do him any good. He's lazy and suspect in the field. I just disagree. OTOH you have a guy like Vlad who every body bows down for and I'm not all that impressed. A great arm yeah, but lots of misplayed balls and lots of errors. He gets the Gold Gloves though. GG awards are all about perception and not too much reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(daa84 @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 11:55 AM) actually, those stat geeks you spoke of, shouldnt be the ones to bash lee since he had a perfect fielding % last year and his zone rating was 3rd in the AL. His range factor was below average, but that doesnt tell nearly as much since that it largely dependent on the pitcher. Stat geeks would also point out that he lead the AL LFs with 11 assists. however, these are the very stats taht can be decieving...although i dont have numbers i will be willing to bet that lee failed to throw out more runners than just about anybody in the league, since everyone ran on him. I also know that Lee got to very few balls outside zone, something which good fielders should do. also his lack of errors could easily be seen in his passive approach at fielding. The stat nerds are the ones who overvalue Carlos, and the scouts in this case have it right. Oh well I guess I'm not going to win any arguments here. I don't think Carlos Lee is a GG outfielder but you're proving my point that he can't do anything right. This also reminds me of how everyone who leaves the Sox had a "bad attitude", was "lazy" or a "clubhouse cancer". Everyone, even Keith Foulke. I'll be watching Lee to see if he regresses. His team is likely to bomb, so it will be interesting to see if he gives his all, all of the time. I still say he's a very good hitter, who made himself a good outfielder. I actually like the defensive aspects of the game a lot. If folks want to think I'm dumb fine. I'm dumb. Lee has not been a bum in the field for a couple of years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 The writer was high on Iguchi. I'm really looking forward to seeing him play. I guess Willie is a good backup plan if Iggy bombs out. But if Iggy can hit and AJ can hit, those are big-time upgrades. For some reason I am thinking those two guys will do well but our speedy ex-Brewer will flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 It feels strange and awkward hearing something positive about the Sox from a writer outside of Chicago, especially since most of the writers here are too busy praising the cubs anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 QUOTE(greg775 @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 08:54 PM) The writer was high on Iguchi. I'm really looking forward to seeing him play. I guess Willie is a good backup plan if Iggy bombs out. But if Iggy can hit and AJ can hit, those are big-time upgrades. For some reason I am thinking those two guys will do well but our speedy ex-Brewer will flop. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not sold on Pods either. Lets just we are both wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 every paper i've seen says we are gonna be hugely dependant on thomas...i hope that isn't reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 (edited) When Min clinched the divsion Ozzie said he was just happy his team played over .500 after Maggs & Thomas went down. But he also added that he didn't have a leadoff hitter & that was a major need for 2005. Enter Pods. Pods 03 http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlbhist/player...tting&year=2003 Pods 04 http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/players/sp...tting&year=2004 His decline is a mystery as is his SB's. His free pass to strikeout ratio remained basically the same so if he was swinging for the fences it didn't lead to more strikeouts. Leading off an inning he hit 272, 328O & an OPS 759. Respectable #'s. In 03 w 618PA he had 175H, 1291B & 60 FP & 43/53 SB%. In 04 w 705PA he had 156H, 1061B & 65 FP & 70/83 SB%. In 03 he stole 2B 40 times, & 3B 3 times. In 04 he stole 2B 61 times, & 3B 9 times. There's no one thing you can point to & say .. there that is why he declined. At this point it looks mostly mental & coming to a great hitters park like the Cell & starting the season w a home stand should help he greatly. Edited February 14, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 every paper i've seen says we are gonna be hugely dependant on thomas...i hope that isn't reality. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's not possible. We must win at least 50 games before the all-star break. This team will have to find a way to win 30 games before Thomas' return in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Feb 14, 2005 -> 12:56 AM) That's not possible. We must win at least 50 games before the all-star break. This team will have to find a way to win 30 games before Thomas' return in June. well, before we used to have slow starts, now this past two years we've been pretty good and then tailed off ins eptember so maybe there is some validity... this is sucha wildcard team...i really don't know what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 QUOTE(daa84 @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 05:55 PM) The stat nerds are the ones who overvalue Carlos, and the scouts in this case have it right. Hey -- if an overvalued guy is one who has improved each season, is in the age-period where many seem to have their peak seasons, and who, for the past three seasons has put up OPS+ of above 115 (and improving), then I want more of these overvalued players on the Sox... Your analysis is totally wrong on Carlos, but that's JMHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 QUOTE(Yossarian @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 11:04 AM) I'm not trying to rehash the Lee trade. Ozzie clearly wanted to go in another direction and the Sox had been banging their heads against the wall since 2000. I'm A-OK with what KW did this off season. What I object to is the "suspect defense" of Lee mentioned in the article. Once you get a label I guess it's impossible to erase it. I know stat geeks will never be impressed with his perfect fielding percentage because of range factors and other assorted criteria. The man worked to become a good left fielder. He should get credit, so I'll give it to him even if I get blasted. He was awful, he worked hard and made himself better. Other guys did it and got credit for it. Not Carlos Lee. Now his base running? That's another story altogether. I will agree with you that he worked hard at improving his defense considering the limited amount of time he played the outfield before he made it to the majors. However, having season tickets in left field I can tell you that he is a below average outfielder mostly due to poor reads on the ball and poor angles taken after he does get a read on the ball. He does try hard but doesn't have outfielder instincts due to the fact he was an infielder until about 5 years ago. I consider myself a fan of his and hope he does well in Milwaukee when I see him there (I go to a few games a year there to meet friends I went to school with in Milwaukee) but he is not and never will be a good outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Feb 13, 2005 -> 06:56 PM) That's not possible. We must win at least 50 games before the all-star break. This team will have to find a way to win 30 games before Thomas' return in June. I'm still holding on to hope that Thomas will be ready to go by opening day. Wasn't the whole June thing Ozzie's thinking or has there been something written regarding his status that confirms he will be out until June? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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