Rosenthal on the Score re: Sox

[beck72]

Ken Rosenthal wrote a piece on team makeovers and how he viewed the sox as a team that really didn't improve itself. I didn't read the article. Yet when he talked to boers and bernstein this a.m., his view seemed pretty typical of baseball "experts" around the league--the sox seem "desperate" to change its team from one of power to one focused on pitching and defense. Rosenthal doubted this change would work, and seemed sure the sox would be looking for more power come July. From reading the Sox being picked behind both the Twins and Indians in most publications, Ken's opinion seems typcial around the league

 

Most of us would disagree that the sox are "desperate". The changes are long overdue, as we have seen the offense go hot and cold for long stretches [more cold than hot over the last 4 yrs]. Most of these guys only see the highlights or read the box scores [and the HR's from guys like Lee, Maggs and Jose always get the headlines]. When the national guys see the sox making wholesale changes, they naturally see the sox as desperate. Maybe guys like Billy Beane and John Schurholtz [sp?] get the benefit of the doubt from their changes because they've won. Until the sox win, KW's moves will not be taken as seriously as GM's who have gotten their teams to the playoffs on a consistent basis.

 

This is how it should be. The sox haven't won. They need to prove themselves to the league that they can overtake the Twins and go far in the playoffs.

[thedoctor]

winning would help. otherwise it's difficult to be overly optimistic.

 

i really like the moves the sox made this offseason and i commend kw for being creative and overhauling the team without adding salary. but recent history makes it difficult to make any grand projections as to what this team is going to accomplish.

[beck72]

but recent history makes it difficult to make any grand projections as to what this team is going to accomplish.

that's why I take most projections with a grain of salt. Yet no one can really blame the national baseball people. It gets boring predicting the Sox to come in 2nd for a 4th yr in a row behind the twins. Cle. looks like they're "up and coming" like KC prior to last yr. It makes for a more interesting article to say Cle. will come in 2nd.

 

But I'm with you. I like what KW has done

[RockRaines]

Who cares, anyone who picks the indians ruins their rep right there. These "experts" even claim that Milwood will be more effective than in the NL, which is unbelievable. I would rather have no pressure and have the team gel, like the bulls, than have it like the last few years.

[SnB]

this new plan could suceed or fail miserably.

whatever happens, KW stuck w/ his plan and did his job this offseason.

We'll see what happenes

[FUCKREINSDORF]

If Hawk Harrelson could ask "Berns and Boerstein....

who the hell are they??" last summer,this Sox fan

asks "Ken Rosenthal, who the hell is he??"

[AddisonStSox]

This is how it should be. The sox haven't won. They need to prove themselves to the league that they can overtake the Twins and go far in the playoffs.

 

Absolutely.

 

To the impartial observer: Kenny lost a 30HR SS ( ), Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Scott Schoenweis, the Alomars, etc.

 

He replaced these White Sox staples with:

 

Podsednik- Scott had one fantastic year with the Brewers. Last year, despite a nasty BA and OBP, he had 70 steals. Unfortunately, I think we are going to be disappointed with Podsednik's production this year as he fails to regain that great year's success.

 

Jermaine Dye- An injury prone outfielder getting up there in age. His power production should benefit this club, but who knows how many game he'll play. Plus, he has the biggest shoes to fill in a White Sox uniform in recent memory.

 

El Duque- Another injury prone, older veteran. His stuff is dynamite, but he has not shown he can stay healthy over an entire season.

 

Pierzynski- You have to be crazy to not see this as a vast improvement.

 

Hermanson- Improvement.

 

Vizcanio- Seems to have good stuff, but unproven.

 

Iguchi- Japanese veteran who hasn't seen one pitch in the MLB.

 

Its very easy to remain skeptical of this current club and I think in all fairness, these national reporters should be skeptical of this ballclub. There is an entirely different makeup in the clubhouse, a completely revamped offense, and the absence of two of the most consistant White Sox contributers.

 

That said, I, a White Sox die-hard fan, remain optimistic in 2005.

[AnthraxFan93]

Most of us would disagree that the sox are "desperate".

 

I think KW is not the Sox in general, IMO this is KW last straw to make a Div winning team. If the team fails KW is gone.

 

Granted I would love to be proven worng and have us win the Div, AL, WS.. but I aint getting my hopes up for a while, lets see were we are at come All-Star.

[beck72]

If Hawk Harrelson could ask "Berns and Boerstein....

who the hell are they??" last summer,this Sox fan

asks "Ken Rosenthal, who the hell is he??"  

 

I'm just using Rosenthal as an example of why a lot of other national baseball people are not picking the sox to do much. The sox win the AL central and these same "experts" will be calling KW a genius.

[beck72]

That said, I, a White Sox die-hard fan, remain optimistic in 2005.

 

No doubt.

 

I don't think many sox players will be staying up late worrying about what the nat'l media has to say. [this offseason has shown at least 2 guys who worried a lot about the media are gone]. The Sox roster is filled with guys like Dye, Everett, Shingo, Garcia, El Duque, Garland, Frank, Pods, AJ, Aaron, MB who have heard all the doubts about their ability/talent level. It's the underdog attitude they must take heading into the season. Because they must prove to the baseball world one thing, that they can win enough games to make the playoffs

[Y2HH]

Minor corrections to your rant:

 

** sPod had his break out year in 2003, not 2004 when he had 70 steals. He will land somewhere between both years @ Comiskey, a better hitters park.

** Dye is NOT old, he just turned 31 and will easily put up monster numbers in Chicago. His numbers were quite nice while at Oakland, not a very good hitters park (just ask all of our power hitters).

 

Steve Stone, one of the greatest baseball minds I've ever had the pleasure of listening too, said on the White Sox: I don't know, so NOBODY knows what this team is capable of until they take the field. If their leadoff men to get on base (and he thinks Pods WILL get on base, a lot), they will put pressure on the opposing defense and their power hitters (which they still have, contrary to popular belief), will be able to put up massive numbers in that park.

 

Hmmm, who should I listen too...Steve Stone...or Ken Rosenthal or Marrioti...um, I think I'll listen to Stone, who knows more about baseball than just about every columnist combined.

 

Absolutely.

 

To the impartial observer: Kenny lost a 30HR SS ( ), Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez, Scott Schoenweis, the Alomars, etc. 

 

He replaced these White Sox staples with:

 

Podsednik- Scott had one fantastic year with the Brewers.  Last year, despite a nasty BA and OBP, he had 70 steals.  Unfortunately, I think we are going to be disappointed with Podsednik's production this year as he fails to regain that great year's success.

 

Jermaine Dye- An injury prone outfielder getting up there in age.  His power production should benefit this club, but who knows how many game he'll play.  Plus, he has the biggest shoes to fill in a White Sox uniform in recent memory.

 

El Duque- Another injury prone, older veteran.  His stuff is dynamite, but he has not shown he can stay healthy over an entire season.

 

Pierzynski- You have to be crazy to not see this as a vast improvement.

 

Hermanson- Improvement.

 

Vizcanio- Seems to have good stuff, but unproven.

 

Iguchi- Japanese veteran who hasn't seen one pitch in the MLB.

 

Its very easy to remain skeptical of this current club and I think in all fairness, these national reporters should be skeptical of this ballclub.  There is an entirely different makeup in the clubhouse, a completely revamped offense, and the absence of two of the most consistant White Sox contributers.

 

That said, I, a White Sox die-hard fan, remain optimistic in 2005.

[Kogs35]

who the f*** cares about all these f***ing "baseball experts" what the f*** do they know ? abosultly nothing. f*** the media and f*** em all. the sox will do what they need todo to overtake the twins then all of these f***ing looser "experts" will be wrong agian. f*** u rosenthal

[winninguglyin83]

If Pods remembers to resist the temptation to swing for the fences and gets on base, he'll be an upgrade and our offense should be more consistent, if less explosive.

 

AJ is definitely an upgrade at catcher.

 

Dye won't be Maggs, but I'd be surprised if he didn't hit 25 HRs with 90 RBIs.

 

El Duque worries me because he is old and is dealing with a tender shoulder.

 

The bullpen should be a plus, although I'm not convinced Shingo is the full-season answer at closer, especially on the nights he has to pitch consecutive games in the same series.

 

For me, the keys to this team are:

 

1. Crede -- gotta have more consistent hitting from an offensive position.

 

2. Uribe -- has to play the position well defensively and hit the way he hit last season.

 

3. Everett -- needs to produce until Frank returns.

 

 

4. Contreras -- Has the stuff to be an 18-game winner.

 

5. Hermanson -- we'll need him to be a strong set up guy, who might have to close if Shingo falters.

Edited February 14, 2005 by winninguglyin83

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I love how people that don't drink the kool-aid int he national media are not disagreed with here but totally discredited. it's unreal sometimes

[FlaCWS]

Here's the thing... it's all going to come down to pitching. If Buerhle and Garcia have their typical years, and El Duque can reproduce last season, then the Sox will contend... whether they lack power or not. If the pitching doesn't live up to expectations, then the Sox will struggle... and it wouldn't have mattered if they had a healthy Magglio and Frank... and even Barry Bonds and Vlad Guerrero. Pitching is what wins and they need stellar seasons from the top 3 guys. Period.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

if we don't beat Radke and Santana head to head, we ain't going to the playoffs. The "all comes down to pitching" is sorta true, but it's oversimplified. To beat Johan, you gotta hit a little and pitch great.

[AddisonStSox]

Minor corrections to your rant:

 

** sPod had his break out year in 2003, not 2004 when he had 70 steals.  He will land somewhere between both years @ Comiskey, a better hitters park.

** Dye is NOT old, he just turned 31 and will easily put up monster numbers in Chicago.  His numbers were quite nice while at Oakland, not a very good hitters park (just ask all of our power hitters).

 

Steve Stone, one of the greatest baseball minds I've ever had the pleasure of listening too, said on the White Sox:  I don't know, so NOBODY knows what this team is capable of until they take the field.  If their leadoff men to get on base (and he thinks Pods WILL get on base, a lot), they will put pressure on the opposing defense and their power hitters (which they still have, contrary to popular belief), will be able to put up massive numbers in that park.

 

Hmmm, who should I listen too...Steve Stone...or Ken Rosenthal or Marrioti...um, I think I'll listen to Stone, who knows more about baseball than just about every columnist combined.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....BUZZ!

 

I never mentioned a year with Podsednik. He had a great 2003, followed by an awful 2004 with the exception of 70 seals. Those are two different years. I was way ahead of you shooter.

 

Podsednik won't regain 2003 form in USCF or anywhere for that matter. Not gonna happen.

[JUGGERNAUT]

No matter how we spin it positively or they spin it negatively it's still the same conclusion: the 2005 will sink or swim .. no treading water (2nd place).

 

I admit as the days go by toward ST doubts are beginning to linger.

Not so much with whether Dye, Everett, & Hernandez will produce but rather will they stay healthy enough to produce.

[Chisoxmatt]

the sox seem "desperate" to change its team from one of power to one focused on pitching and defense. Rosenthal doubted this change would work, and seemed sure the sox would be looking for more power come July.

I dont see how we are lacking power.

 

Rowand 25

Dye 30

Konerko 35

Everett/Thomas/gload 35

Podsednik 15

Crede 20-25

AJ 20

Iguchi 15

Davis 8

Uribe 25

Perez 5

 

Bingo. We still will hit in the 230's in homers.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I highly question your prognostications. No way Pods and AJ combine for 35 homers.

[Y2HH]

Ok, then let's say Pods and AJ hit only a combined 5 HR.

 

That is still 200, and some of those other numbers were conservative while others were a little overblown.

 

Fact is, the power still remains, only now we have a more balanced offense which should equate to more RBI's.

 

-y2

 

I highly question your prognostications. No way Pods and AJ combine for 35 homers.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

you seem to be leaning on a great deal of health. Not saying it won't happen, but there are too many question marks to say definitively that they Sox will jack 200 plus homers.

[Y2HH]

Even if they don't, a lot of good 200+ HR did us last year.

 

I'll gladly accept 175HR with men on base rather than solo shot after solo shot.

 

-y2

 

you seem to be leaning on a great deal of health. Not saying it won't happen, but there are too many question marks to say definitively that they Sox will jack 200 plus homers.

[Wong & Owens]

who the f*** cares about all these f***ing "baseball experts" what the f*** do they know ? abosultly nothing. f*** the media and f*** em all. the sox will do what they need todo to overtake the twins then all of these f***ing looser "experts" will be wrong agian. f*** u rosenthal

 

 

I'm with you. Find me an "expert" that had St. Louis picked (pre-season) for the WS last year. 90% of experts had the Cubs in the WS, and they didn't even make the playoffs. Experts are sheep.