Chirac's a weenie

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

You know, I get tired of debunking posts point by point to prove my intelligence when you just make some smartass quip that is supposed to demean me. Grow up.

 

Once again, I never insinuated that because France has a large Muslim population that they are exempt from not being involved in Muslim foreign affairs. I stated that because of their large involvement with Algieria, an involvement so large that it created the Fifth Republic and installed de Gaulle to power, that they would rather not be involved in such a volitaile situation. Maybe it's because France and Chirac side with the Palestinians, but I severely doubt so. France has every right to remain neutral on situations they do not want to enter into, yet you would just like France to be a whore to the American imperialistic policy and follow lockstep in everything they do. Get over it.

 

Putin began his love affair with Chechnya when he was in the KGB, not just recently. Also, many radical fundamentalist Islamic groups from Saudi Arabia, and as you said al-Qaeda, we're basically kicked out of Dagestan by the government there and they setup shop in Chechnya. I can almost assure you that if Putin would simply grant Chechen independence, there would be little if any flare ups in the Caucasus region.

 

f***, I don't know, maybe Spain and Russia could see through the minefield of bulls*** that you and other conservatives bought into about Iraq. God forbid.

 

As to your mullet boy comment, comical.

 

France would rather not involve themselves in a volatile situation? What does that have to do with simply putting a proven terrorist group on its list of such groups and in so doing stopping them from raising money in their country?

 

Little, if any flare ups in the Caucasus region? Ever read up on whats going on in Georgia and more specifically the Pankisi Gorge region?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Yes, because I am liberal and critical of American foreign policy I "worship bin Laden"? You know what, I'm sick of dealing with you. I tried to display as much comparitive evidence supporting my argument, and you can only say I worship a man whom I loathe. You're a complete joke.

 

 

You still have yet to explain why its so hard for France to put a terrorist orgainzation on a terrorist group list thusly preventing them from raising money in France which, by the way, was the whole point of this thread.

 

 

*Waits patiently for your punch line*

Edited February 19, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[Cerbaho-WG]

France would rather not involve themselves in a volatile situation?  What does that have to do with simply putting a proven terrorist group on its list of such groups and in so doing stopping them from raising money in their country? 

 

Little, if any flare ups in the Caucasus region?  Ever read up on whats going on in Georgia and more specifically the Pankisi Gorge region?

 

Yes, Georgia is having a problem with their government, as most unstable countries do when adapting to overthrows of prior governments. Nigeria is a good example.

 

Nuke, I don't know much what's happening over in the Gorge except that it's usually full of psychos and extremists f***nuts. Mind telling me what happened now?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Yes, Georgia is having a problem with their government, as most unstable countries do when adapting to overthrows of prior governments. Nigeria is a good example.

 

Nuke, I don't know much what's happening over in the Gorge except that it's usually full of psychos and extremists f***nuts. Mind telling me what happened now?

 

 

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/26/37290.html

 

This is a couple of years old but the situation hasn't gotten any better. I also know we've got some SF guys there helping train up the locals to better deal with terrorist elements hiding in the region.

Edited February 19, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[FlaSoxxJim]

:finger  (Oh, wait, that might be construed as a "personal attack.")

 

I'm done. I'm not on the clock around here at any rate, I just figured what the hell, I'd try to stop the s***storm before it started.

 

No good deed... :banghead

[TheBigHurt35]

You still have yet to explain why its so hard for France to put a terrorist orgainzation on a terrorist group list thusly preventing them from raising money in France which, by the way, was the whole point of this thread.

 

Because liberals like to argue that it's infringing on their "right to be neutral." Turning a blind eye to organizations in your country that fund terrorists is simply veiled support for them.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I'm done.  I'm not on the clock around here at any rate, I just figured what the hell, I'd try to stop the s***storm before it started.

 

No good deed...  :banghead

Next time just do this....

 

[Rex Kickass]

I honestly think the last thing you could say about France is that they are friendly to muslim extremists. Because Chirac won't refer to Hezbollah as terrorists doesn't mean that France doesn't consider them such.

 

If you look at the actions taken in France within its own borders against people of Islamic faith, you might have a different point of view.

[KipWellsFan]

This bighurt guy is ridiculous he comes on here comparing Dan Rather to Bill O'Reilly and then blocks anyone who disagrees with him, then complains about people calling him ignorant.

 

P.S. to whomever used jingoistic first in this thread, thanks. I had to look it up in the dictionary but it fits very well for some on this board.

Edited February 19, 2005 by KipWellsFan

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I honestly think the last thing you could say about France is that they are friendly to muslim extremists. Because Chirac won't refer to Hezbollah as terrorists doesn't mean that France doesn't consider them such.

 

If you look at the actions taken in France within its own borders against people of Islamic faith, you might have a different point of view.

 

 

The problem with that is that Hezbollah can still operate within Frances borders until they get put on that blacklist.

[Rex Kickass]

They can still operate here on the blacklist. My guess is they can't do nearly as much undetected over there.

 

In 2003, four Islamic clerics were held in a Paris jail for a couple weeks because they knew people that knew people that had terror ties. France pursues terrorists much more aggressively than you might imagine.

 

But Chirac is still an asshat.

And so's O'Reilly.

And you can also throw in Don Imus.

Cause I never liked him much.

[FlaSoxxJim]

P.S. to whomever used jingoistic first in this thread, thanks.  I had to look it up in the dictionary but it fits very well for some on this board.

 

He was just fifteen, a new trainee

He lied about it for the opportunity

To defend the border his life was sworn

Tho' not a generation was native born.

Johnee Jingo, Johnee Jingo

He had lost the battle but won the war

When the General said he couldn't fight no more

He was proud and bitter at what he'd done

So he passed it on to his favorite son.

 

Johnee Jingo, Johnee Jingo

Jingo don't you fight for me,

Jingo don't you speak for me

Jingo don't you fight for me,

Jingo don't you speak for me

 

To the man who owns the land - we're all the same

But when his grip begins to slip

Then he'll be calling out your name.

Johnee Jingo, Johnee Jingo

And the throne the pulpit and the politician

Create a thirst for power in the common man

It's a taste for blood passed off as bravery

Or just patriotism hiding bigotry.

 

Johnee Jingo, Johnee Jingo

Jingo don't you speak for me,

Jingo don't you fight for me

Jingo don't you speak for me,

Jingo don't you fight for me

 

TR - You Da Man!

[TheBigHurt35]

Because Chirac won't refer to Hezbollah as terrorists doesn't mean that France doesn't consider them such.

 

Why wouldn't they want to? At the very least, it'd keep organizations in their country from funding terrorist organizations. Or is the French government not concerned with fighting terrorism?

 

This is classic French appease-the-enemy-and-hope-they'll-spare-Paris-when-they-try-to-take-over-the-world logic. It didn't work with Hitler and it won't work with al Qaeda/Hammas/Hezbollah.

 

I agree that the French have undertaken some positive work in fighting terrorism within their own borders, but allowing France-based charities to fund Hezbollah is a big step backwards.

 

Also agree that Imus is an asshat. Years of drug and alcohol abuse have clearly turned his brain into mush.

 

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Feb 18, 2005 -> 09:52 PM)

P.S. to whomever used jingoistic first in this thread, thanks.  I had to look it up in the dictionary but it fits very well for some on this board.

 

Classic!

Edited February 19, 2005 by TheBigHurt35

[KipWellsFan]

Yah I guess I shouldn't have looked it up in the dictionary.

 

WHO IS THIS GUY!?!

[FlaSoxxJim]

Yah I guess I shouldn't have looked it up in the dictionary.

 

WHO IS THIS GUY!?!

 

Ach, I think it's acceptable for a Canuck to not know the term (you do have like 30 words for "snow" though, right? ). It would be a fairly foreign concept up your way. Down this way, however, we're swimming in 'em.

[TheBigHurt35]

Ach, I think it's acceptable for a Canuck to not know the term (you do have like 30 words for "snow" though, right?  ).  It would be a fairly foreign concept up your way.  Down this way, however, we're swimming in 'em.

 

I'm going to head over to a Toronto Argonauts message board and insult the Canadian government ad nauseam ("to a ridiculous extreme," for those who never read). You think they'll appreciate my comments?

[FlaSoxxJim]

I'm going to head over to a Toronto Argonauts message board and insult the Canadian government ad nauseam ("to a ridiculous extreme," for those who never read).  You think they'll appreciate my comments?

 

They'd be fairly amused, I'm sure, and chalk it up to national penis envy.

 

Then again, if you went to a board inhabited by a buncha Newfies, I'm sure they wouldn't get it...

[TheBigHurt35]

They'd be fairly amused, I'm sure, and chalk it up to national penis envy.

 

Canadians have penises?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Canadians have penises?   

 

Yes, they just have to look south... er..., down.

[Rex Kickass]

Why wouldn't they want to?  At the very least, it'd keep organizations in their country from funding terrorist organizations.  Or is the French government not concerned with fighting terrorism?

 

This is classic French appease-the-enemy-and-hope-they'll-spare-Paris-when-they-try-to-take-over-the-world logic.  It didn't work with Hitler and it won't work with al Qaeda/Hammas/Hezbollah.

 

I agree that the French have undertaken some positive work in fighting terrorism within their own borders, but allowing France-based charities to fund Hezbollah is a big step backwards.

 

Also agree that Imus is an asshat.  Years of drug and alcohol abuse have clearly turned his brain into mush.

Classic!

 

Sometimes, the smartest move is to let them continue to fundraise. Watching the money rather than stopping it can be an incredibly effective mechanism to unravel the scope and players of a particular organization.

 

I have no clue why Chirac won't put Hezbollah on the blacklist there. It may have something to do with the history of Israeli occupied Lebanon and the role that Hezbollah played to allow Lebanon a greater degree of self-determination - although Syrian influence is still rather overwhelming there.

 

Oh and if you want a history lesson on democracy in the middle east, look at Lebanon. They had one, back before 1975.

 

I'm not an expert on France's counter terror efforts at the present moment but I will say that they have been fairly aggressive towards it when it affects French nationals especially. I will also say that they have a much different take on how to fight the spectre of transglobal terror. I get the impression, they see it much more as a war on crime rather than a couple loosely affiliated networks of people out to do ill will. As a result Paris has been largely spared of mass scale terror attacks. They seemed to have learned their lessons, as well as the rest of Europe, in the 1980s when bombings were relatively commonplace.

 

Terrorism is not a new phenomenon for France, Germany or many other European countries. They've been fighting this battle on a smaller scale for decades. You just didn't hear about it because the US put their heads in the sand for nearly thirty years. Only after TWA flights got hijacked and Pan Am flights blew up did we even consider the possibilities. And it took the death of 3000 Americans to wake us up to do more. Unfortunately the path we've blazed has been one of curtailing freedom without making long lasting steps to make terror more difficult.

[FlaSoxxJim]

They've been fighting this battle on a smaller scale for decades. You just didn't hear about it because the US put their heads in the sand for nearly thirty years.

 

The United States accused of ever being "not concerned with fighting terrorism...." I'm shocked -- SHOCKED, I tell you!

 

It was OK when it only happened to somebody else, silly.

 

[KipWellsFan]

Back on topic here:

 

According to this France is only 1 of 25 European Union member states that haven't qualified Hezbollah as terrorists yet.

 

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/TerrorismIntl_93/4646_93.htm

[TheBigHurt35]

Sometimes, the smartest move is to let them continue to fundraise. Watching the money rather than stopping it can be an incredibly effective mechanism to unravel the scope and players of a particular organization.

 

I think that's an incredibly poor way to handle the situation. How long is France going to "watch" money from their country fund the deaths of little kids in Israel? Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

Terrorism is not a new phenomenon for France, Germany or many other European countries. They've been fighting this battle on a smaller scale for decades. You just didn't hear about it because the US put their heads in the sand for nearly thirty years.

 

I agree with your general statement, but you phrase it in an incredibly negative way. Our government certainly didn't "put their heads in the sand" when it came to dealing with Axis powers during WWII and curbing the spread of Communism from the nuclear superpower Soviet Union afterwards. Oh, and let's not forget about Cuba and the other "lesser" rogue nations that the US has dealt with since WWII. Outside of Clinton doing nothing about al Qaeda in the '90s, I think it's safe to say that the US government has fought the "most important" battles since WWII.

Edited February 19, 2005 by TheBigHurt35

[Rex Kickass]

The mark of a good foreign policy is one that is able to identify future threats and pitfalls while dealing with the current tasks at hand. Many political scientists were already saying that Transglobal Terror would hit us eventually and that it would only be a matter of time. But we ignored it through the Reagan administration and the Bush administration and even partially through the Clinton administration (although, Clinton did awaken to the threat late in his presidency and begin to put together a strategy which was promptly shelved in late January 2001.)

 

When the end result of not paying attention to the threat cost 3000 American lives in one day, there's no way to phrase it other than negative.

[YASNY]

The only reason Clinton "awakened" to the situation was to attempt to get the Lewinski situation off the front pages of the newspapers. I wouldn't say he followed up on it in any way shape or form ... considering that Bin Laden would have been handed to him if he was willing to accept the offer.