ESPN Preseason Power Rankings

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Could you blame me after the '03-'04 offseason? And let's not forget that I have previously posted here that I was GLAD I was wrong about this offseason. But let's not act like JR and Co. went out this offseason and added $10-$20 million in payroll. JR and Co. dumped big contracts for small contracts in an attempt to address deficiencies. Will it work? NOBODY KNOWS AND THAT IS MY POINT. You're one of the smarter posters here JimH even if we don't see eye-to-eye at times.

 

Be honest..... don't you think some of the predictions and expectations posted here as of late border on ridiculous and extremely difficult for most players, based on past performance, to attain? Don't you think most here are expecting too much from a team with a 2nd year coach that made a ton of mistakes last season and has yet to play Game 1 on the field?

 

 

I'm taking a wait and see attitude with the club this year. I give them their props for making necessary changes but now they have to go out and perform and we all know this team is capable of taking whole parts of a season off.

 

Is it so bad to demand that the team perform before drinking the kool aid!?

[Guest JimH]

Realize you're dealing with a majority of people here who are Sox fans that act like the Sox have a history like the Yankees. Rational thinking and opposing views obviously are not allowed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This post is indicative of why I take issues with much of what you post, and your posting style.

 

You make these quantum leap judgements, and categorize people who have an optimistic viewpoint of this franchise as non-rational thinkers.

 

Isn't that what you're doing, i.e. if someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint then they aren't thinking rationally? In addition, it's borderline ludicrous to suggest there aren't opposing viewpoints here, it happens every day. When you have a fan from another team show up, that's fine, but when it's someone who's looking to start arguments like this guy was ... that is entirely another matter.

 

I'll respond to your post to me in another post.

[Guest JimH]

Could you blame me after the '03-'04 offseason? And let's not forget that I have previously posted here that I was GLAD I was wrong about this offseason. But let's not act like JR and Co. went out this offseason and added $10-$20 million in payroll. JR and Co. dumped big contracts for small contracts in an attempt to address deficiencies. Will it work? NOBODY KNOWS AND THAT IS MY POINT. You're one of the smarter posters here JimH even if we don't see eye-to-eye at times.

 

Be honest..... don't you think some of the predictions and expectations posted here as of late border on ridiculous and extremely difficult for most players, based on past performance, to attain? Don't you think most here are expecting too much from a team with a 2nd year coach that made a ton of mistakes last season and has yet to play Game 1 on the field?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We agree the games are played on the field, and anyone who reads my posts know that I'm not much of a stats guy. Statistical projections mean little to me unless it all adds up to wins.

 

And that is much of my viewpoint ... Sox had players who had great stats and the team did not win. IMO Williams had no choice but to change direction. It's easy to say he should've changed directions sooner but sometimes key guys getting hurt, and contract situations dictate what can and cannot get done.

 

I believe there should be high expectations and in large part, that's what a fan is about. It is a great game because the unexpected usually happens. I will tell you what, I saw less mistakes last year than in previous years. It's just the mistakes of previous years weren't as much in the open ... failing to make contact, failing to move a runner over, etc.

 

If your negativity was based on what happens in the rear view mirror, you have sorely underestimated the resolve of Williams and Guillen. Playerss who made bonehead mistakes are gone. If I'm not mistaken payroll will be the highest it's ever been. They spend basically what they bring in, it's been that way forever. The problem continues to be that the farm system does not produce on a par with Minnesota or possibly Cleveland.

 

As for optimism and predictions, I don't think it's out of line to suggest winning the division is in the cards. They have as good or better chance than Minnesota and Cleveland.

[witesoxfan]

Are you saying that Rowand is a power-hitter that can put up more than 35 HR's in a season? Seriously? 

 

Aaron Rowand had the highest SLG% and OPS on the team last year.

 

Not that it is a guarantee that he will put it up again this year...but I think the chances are pretty good.

 

So yeah, Aaron Rowand is a power hitter. He's probably not gonna hit 35 homers, but there's nothing wrong with 25 homers and 40 doubles now, is there?

[greasywheels121]

I believe there should be high expectations and in large part, that's what a fan is about.  It is a great game because the unexpected usually happens. 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said, but this stood out the most. I'm behind this statement 100%. Yes, CK finally praised KW this offseason, but still it seems he's back to his old ways now that ST is in session. What enjoyment do you get out of the season as a fan, if you're throwing it away before the season even starts. I don't get that at all. There's no reason to be a fan of a team, if you never believe they're going to win anything.

[whitesox61382]

If I had to vote for the most overrated team in baseball, than the Tribe would certainly be on that list. I hate how most people consider the Tribe to be a young and upcoming team, when the fact is that they are mostly a veteran team. Here is an honest analysis of the Tribe.

 

Offensive:

 

The Tribe got career years from career minor leaguers like Blake, Hafner, and Broussard. Delusional Tribe fans assume that these 3 will duplicate their 2004 production, when there is years of evidence showing a strong correlation between career minor leaguers putting up a career year and falling back to reality the following season. The Tribe have to look no further then their own clubhouse for a perfect example.

 

Gerut 03' .279/22/75 .830

Gerut 04' .252/11/51 .739

 

Gerut didn't reach the minors until 26, put up a career year that surpassed everyones expectations, and not surprisingly followed the strong correlation stated above in 2004. The Sox have another perfect example in Podsednik. The Sox also have another example of a guy in the same boat as Blake, Hafner, and Broussard with Gload. I really like Gload, and he put up solid numbers in the minors, but it is highly unlikely that he will duplicate his impressive 2004 season. That is the difference between Sox fans and Tribe fans. They understand the reality of baseball and have the capability to look at things realistically, while Tribe fans tend to put the rosy colored glasses on before viewing their own team. The fact is that Blake, Hafner, and Broussard all fit the correlation above. They are career minor leaguers, who didn't receive everyday AB until 26+, put up a career year, and ????(I will let you fill in the blank in regards to what is likely to happen next year). Now there are always a few exceptions to a rule, but thinking that the Tribe are going to get similar production from all 3 players is nothing short of foolish.

 

Factor in that the Tribe lost two solid proven bats in Vizquel and Lawton, and added inconsistant, injury-prone, unproven bats like Gonzalez, Boone, Hernandez, and Cora to replace them, and you have an offense that will probably be worse then their 2004 production.

 

Rotation:

 

Westbrook is a huge question mark. The guy had a career ERA of 5.23 before last season. Now it isn't uncommon for a young pitcher to show improvement over the years, but such a drastic improvement over one year screams career year. I do think that Westbrook will be a solid major league pitcher for years to come, however, I doubt that he duplicates the 3.38 ERA he posted last year. I think an ERA around 4 is much more realistic.

 

Sabathia has shown to be a pretty consistant pitcher. His 4.12 ERA last year was the same as his career ERA, so you can probably expect a similar ERA in 2005.

 

Millwood is as inconsistant as they come. He started off his career solid, but hit a rough patch in 2000 and 2001, rebounded in 2002 and 2003, and was awful in 2004. So the question is, which Millwood is going to show up? For the most part, Millwood has shown to be a low 4 ERA type pitcher, so I would guess that is what you can expect assuming that he is healthy, but if Tribe fans expect him to be their savior, than they are in for a rude awakening.

 

The backend of the Tribes rotation is probably one of the worst in baseball. Elarton came out of nowhere with a respectable ERA of 4.53 last year, but most people wonder how he did that considering that he gave up an astounding 25 HR in only 117.1 IP. That has to be one of the more remarkable stats in baseball. I can't remember the last time a pitcher gave up that many HR/IP and posted such a low ERA. Needless to say, history will not repeat itself. There is a reason that Elarton has a 5.00+ career ERA, and if he continues to give up HR at that rate, than Tribe fans will find out why. Lee and Davis were both terrible last year. The good news is that they can't get much worse. The bad news is that they showed little hope for drastic improvement.

 

The Tribes rotation is shaky at best, and the Tribes #4 and #5 starters will probably be among the worst in baseball.

 

Bullpen:

 

The good news is that the Tribe bullpen can't get much worse. The bad news is that the Tribe really didn't add any proven relievers to improve the pen. They have added more depth, but unproven, inconsistant, injury-prone depth. They should be better for the simple fact that they can't get much worse, but the Tribe bullpen is still well below average.

 

Defense/Bench:

 

The Tribe should have a solid defensive team, although they did lose two quality defensive players in Vizquel and Lawton. The Tribes bench should be improved with more depth.

 

Overall, I don't see this as an improved team. The offense will probably be worse, the rotation, bullpen, and bench will probably be only marginally better, and the defense will be similar and maybe slightly worse. This is a team that will probably finish below .500 again this year, and if they don't watch out, might finish in 4th.

[Rowand44]

This is a team that will probably finish below .500 again this year

Again??

[3E8]

Again??

Yeah, the Tribe were 80-82 last year.

[Chisoxmatt]

Overall, I don't see this as an improved team. The offense will probably be worse, the rotation, bullpen, and bench will probably be only marginally better, and the defense will be similar and maybe slightly worse. This is a team that will probably finish below .500 again this year, and if they don't watch out, might finish in 4th.

I agree with you for the most part. I dont think they will be 4th.

 

I see them as:

 

83-79 3rd place

[Rowand44]

Yeah, the Tribe were 80-82 last year.

Man, I feel like an idiot, I didn't read the whole post and I thought he was talking about the sox.

[GoodAsGould]

i think Hafner and Victor Martinez are the real deal... Gerut i like and would think he should bounce back somewhat from last year. Coco Crisp doesnt do much for me but they have that nice prospect in Sizemore who is waiting if anyone in that OF struggles.

 

Also Peralta and Brandon Phillips at SS dont impress me much at all either.

[CWSOX45]

If I had to vote for the most overrated team in baseball, than the Tribe would certainly be on that list. I hate how most people consider the Tribe to be a young and upcoming team, when the fact is that they are mostly a veteran team. Here is an honest analysis of the Tribe.

 

Offensive:

 

The Tribe got career years from career minor leaguers like Blake, Hafner, and Broussard.

 

 

I've got to disagree with your assessment on Hafner, I think the guy is a stud and will continue to produce similar numbers to the ones he had last year. Do I have any evidence to back my statement up? No not really, it's more of my opinion, but calling him a career minor leaguer is WAY off-track. As for Blake, he probably won't even start this year considering they have Aaron Boone now.

 

I still think the Sox are better then the Tribe, but if the Indians bullpen turns out to be more solid than expected (which it probably won't) We could have a very big problem arising in Cleveland. However I still believe that this will be a two team race consisting of the White Sox and Twins.

Edited February 20, 2005 by CWSOX45

[SuperSteve]

A few things...El Duque for 100 innings is still good for 100 innings. That is a positive and if he gives us what he gave the Yankees last year, then it will be nice to have. Plus he has a ton post season experience, which not too many guys on the Sox really have.

 

Dealing with the Tigers (they were mentioned a little earlier in the thread), they have Jason Johnson as their second starter. There's a guy who couldn't cut it for the Orioles. Bonderman is the guy who kills me too. Numbers similar to Garland, yet Bonderman gets his cock rubbed by everybody, and Garland just gets ripped apart. Garland is our fifth starter, not our first. Everyone is allowed to go off "what ifs?" except us and the Twins. The Twins have been the best, and deserve it. The White Sox don't get to use the what ifs the Indians and Tigers do:

 

What if Bonderman is awesome? What if he's not?

 

What if all the Tribe pitchers have career years again? What if they all go back sucking (Elarton? Haha. Westbrook took awhile)

 

What if Aaron Boone never fully heals, who knows if he will ever get back to where he was?

 

What if Ronnie Belliard sucks again? He wasn't exactly an AS when he was on the Rockies.

 

 

You just don't hear it for the Sox, it is always assumed they will suck, be worse, and so on. I do not care what everybody writes right now. All I know is I like the team we have here, and I am excited going into the season.

[CubKilla]

So yeah, Aaron Rowand is a power hitter.  He's probably not gonna hit 35 homers, but there's nothing wrong with 25 homers and 40 doubles now, is there?

 

Not at all. BUT THAT'S MY POINT WSF. THe "kids" on this Board expect too much out of our White Sox.

[CubKilla]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but this stood out the most.  I'm behind this statement 100%.  Yes, CK finally praised KW this offseason, but still it seems he's back to his old ways now that ST is in session.  What enjoyment do you get out of the season as a fan, if you're throwing it away before the season even starts.

I throw away most seasons before they start because that has been my life. But, trust me, I'll do anything for an ALCS berth and I got a friend that'll do...... nevermind...... for a WS berth.

[CubKilla]

Yeah, the Tribe were 80-82 last year.

 

They'll be at least .500 this year. The AL Central isn't a push over anymore.

[witesoxfan]

Not at all. BUT THAT'S MY POINT WSF. THe "kids" on this Board expect too much out of our White Sox.

 

If people expect 35 homers out of Aaron, they are being dumb. That is completely assinine. The guy has never hit 25(though 24 is close enough for me), so to expect 35 is pretty crazy.

 

But if he can put up another .540 SLG season, I won't complain.

[DonkeyKongerko]

The AL Central could be baseball's most competitive division this year. Minnesota is still the front-runner but I can visualize scenarios with the Sox, Cleveland, or even Detroit winning this division.

 

At least, I don't think winning this division will come down to who can beat up on cellar dwellers the best but who goes out and takes it to the other teams.

[YASNY]

As a long term Sox fan, I can certainly understand CubKilla's point of view. I was not quite 2 years old the last time the Sox were seen in the World Series, so it's been a long hard row to hoe. That kind of disappointment, year after year, can lead to someone being slighty jaded.

 

However, being a fan, I always look for and hope for the best every spring. I hope that one of these years all the pieces will fall into place. I hope a midseason acquisition will be the final ingredient that makes the team gel, ala Julio Cruz in '83. Basically, I think I just like drinking the Kool-Aid every spring and won't spit it out until all hope is gone.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

As a long term Sox fan, I can certainly understand CubKilla's point of view.  I was not quite 2 years old the last time the Sox were seen in the World Series, so it's been a long hard row to hoe.  That kind of disappointment, year after year, can lead to someone being slighty jaded.

 

However, being a fan, I always look for and hope for the best every spring.  I hope that one of these years all the pieces will fall into place.  I hope a midseason acquisition will be the final ingredient that makes the team gel, ala Julio Cruz in '83.  Basically, I think I just like drinking the Kool-Aid every spring and won't spit it out until all hope is gone.

 

 

Nicely said Yas. That makes us exactly around the same age. As long time fans hope springs eternal. Soxtalk is great entertainment. I feel bad for the poor Indian lover who was banned. Probably was just a kid who loves his team, nothing wrong with that. Yea he stirred the pot a bit . Not everyone can back up what they say with stats. Not all of us play fantasy baseball and know what ERA+ or WHIP mean.

Myself, I like to look at the positive. I like Garland ,I like Harris, probably the 2 most hated players on the Sox. I like freedom of speech also. So the Indian lovin kid rattled our cages a lil bit. What it comes down to is, if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Even with all the "heat" this kid took he stayed in the kitchen. I feel ashamed he was ridiculed and banned. We had the nerve to tell him how to post. Do it this way or dont bother posting. He hung in there with everyone against him until we couldnt take the heat and threw him out of the kitchen. I, for one, would rather not see Soxtalk ban a baseball loving guy. I sure would rather have him spend his time agitating us on Soxtalk then doing drugs or hanging with a gang or even playing video games for that matter. Writing , no matter what form it takes, is an intellectual pursuit. Shame, shame for saying off with his head because he isnt one of us.

[Guest JimH]

I throw away most seasons before they start because that has been my life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow.

 

"It's always been like this, therefore it will never change, let's all be miserable together." And if someone else isn't skeptical, pessimistic, or looking for ownership's ulterior motives, they're Kool Aid drinkers or can't think rationally.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I have a problem with that.

 

Some of the "kids" on this website understand baseball well enough to know that players can improve. Their idea of rational thinking apparantly doesn't include an ever-present raincloud of pessimistic negativity. In my book, that makes their thinking pretty rational.

 

Constant negativity is one thing, it's annoying but can be tolerated. Yours, which is almost always soaked in sarcasm, becomes insufferable.

 

Not trying to beat on you here because we are both adults, but I can definitely see why every time you show up here you've got posters ("kids" or not) slinging it back at you.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Remember Youngstown?

 

[WHarris1]

No the Tribe is dead on. I can't help to say  we are favored over the sox.....

 

[qwerty]

Aaron Rowand had the highest SLG% and OPS on the team last year. 

 

Not that it is a guarantee that he will put it up again this year...but I think the chances are pretty good.

 

So yeah, Aaron Rowand is a power hitter.  He's probably not gonna hit 35 homers, but there's nothing wrong with 25 homers and 40 doubles now, is there?

 

Lol.

 

Wow. This whole f***ing thread is hysterical actually.

Edited July 17, 2005 by qwerty

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Lol.

 

Wow. This whole f***ing thread is hysterical actually.

 

 

Oh hell yeah. Almost as funny as their media and players acting all hard telling people they were gonna sweep us this series before even the 1st pitch had been thrown.

 

LOL!!!

 

Somebody got swept alright.

 

LMFAO!!!!