LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html See, Bush isn't a Nazi. His family just profiteered from them! let's hear it for flag waving nationalism! woo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Apu, With all respect - being the first generation of my family born in this country. Having family members from my french side live in German labor/concentration camps, and having family members fight in the Third Reich army... comparisons of Bush or anyone else to the special evil that was Hitler is, in my opinion, insulting to the memories of the millions of people who died in that war. I spent four months studying the holocaust and practices of the Third Reich. What happened in Germany was the culmination of a systemic process of anti-semitism present throughout Europe for generations.George HW Bush and George W Bush are not the same people who, in their family, dealt with the enemy. That's like accusing me of being a Nazi sympathizer because my Grandfather fought in WWII on the wrong side. Deep in my heart, I don't believe that Bush has the same goals or motivations as Hitler or the Third Reich. So lay off the nazi bull s***. History is not taught by analogy. Listen, if you oppose the Bush presidency, that's cool. But if you want to make someone actually listen, understand or agree with your point - don't take the easy way out and make lame, untrue comparisons. Because they don't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 Apu, With all respect - being the first generation of my family born in this country. Having family members from my french side live in German labor/concentration camps, and having family members fight in the Third Reich army... comparisons of Bush or anyone else to the special evil that was Hitler is, in my opinion, insulting to the memories of the millions of people who died in that war. I spent four months studying the holocaust and practices of the Third Reich. What happened in Germany was the culmination of a systemic process of anti-semitism present throughout Europe for generations.George HW Bush and George W Bush are not the same people who, in their family, dealt with the enemy. That's like accusing me of being a Nazi sympathizer because my Grandfather fought in WWII on the wrong side. Deep in my heart, I don't believe that Bush has the same goals or motivations as Hitler or the Third Reich. So lay off the nazi bull s***. History is not taught by analogy. Listen, if you oppose the Bush presidency, that's cool. But if you want to make someone actually listen, understand or agree with your point - don't take the easy way out and make lame, untrue comparisons. Because they don't work. His family MADE MONEY SELLING WEAPONS TO THE NAZIS! That's how his family got power and prestige! Yet we're fed the BS that the Bush family is some great American family. Bush is a Nazi...he ascribes to Nazi ideas of pre-emption. The blind nationalism....pretty much like the Nazi regime. The doing away with dissent with the "you're not patriotic" is totally taken right from the mouth of a quote from Hermann Goering: Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. My great grandparents and other relatives were involved in WW II as well. A lot of them served in the German army and also a lot on my grandfather's side of the family were part of the Resistance movement against Hitler in Germany. I never said Bush was Hitler, per se. I did however equate his inclinations with the similarities to the Nazi regime. Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 apu you are a small man with small-man's motivations and small-man's goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 apu you are a small man with small-man's motivations and small-man's goals. Ah yes, and advocating a war that has already, at conservative estimates killed over 1000 civilians, and about 100 U.S. troops....That a big honorable goal? Since when is death, slaughter and destruction something honorable? And an insult coming from you Spiff, it doesn't really mean much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 when did i say i advocated it. i have always said it wasn't something i wanted but i understood why it had to happen. you spend your life tearing down the president on a message board, that's fine. i just don't see what it will accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Apu, Just curious, are you a student? What do you study? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Apu, With all respect - being the first generation of my family born in this country. Having family members from my french side live in German labor/concentration camps, and having family members fight in the Third Reich army... comparisons of Bush or anyone else to the special evil that was Hitler is, in my opinion, insulting to the memories of the millions of people who died in that war. I spent four months studying the holocaust and practices of the Third Reich. What happened in Germany was the culmination of a systemic process of anti-semitism present throughout Europe for generations.George HW Bush and George W Bush are not the same people who, in their family, dealt with the enemy. That's like accusing me of being a Nazi sympathizer because my Grandfather fought in WWII on the wrong side. Deep in my heart, I don't believe that Bush has the same goals or motivations as Hitler or the Third Reich. So lay off the nazi bull s***. History is not taught by analogy. Listen, if you oppose the Bush presidency, that's cool. But if you want to make someone actually listen, understand or agree with your point - don't take the easy way out and make lame, untrue comparisons. Because they don't work. apu - you really need to listen to what this man has to say...youre losing it apu...you getting more and more extreme each day...when youre young idealistic its really to hard to admit you might be wrong...hell its hard when youre old and idealistic too... apu you have been proven wrong on almost everything you said about this war...here two of your biggest blunders...can you admit you were wrong on these two points??? you said george bush was going to commit genocide on 5 million iraqi children...did that happen ..yes or no??? you said that the military strategy was flawed and we were in a stalemate and it was going to take months to finish the war...did that happen...yes or no??? just for you apu..the new smilies... and if we ever meet up at comiskey..first is on me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Bagg - Thanks for the kind words. Nice to see that people do recognize a middle ground sometimes :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 apu - you really need to listen to what this man has to say...youre losing it apu...you getting more and more extreme each day...when youre young idealistic its really to hard to admit you might be wrong...hell its hard when youre old and idealistic too... apu you have been proven wrong on almost everything you said about this war...here two of your biggest blunders...can you admit you were wrong on these two points??? you said george bush was going to commit genocide on 5 million iraqi children...did that happen ..yes or no??? you said that the military strategy was flawed and we were in a stalemate and it was going to take months to finish the war...did that happen...yes or no??? just for you apu..the new smilies... and if we ever meet up at comiskey..first is on me Baggs, I'd admit I was wrong if what you attributed to me was actually what I said. Actually what I stated about this war is that 1) it's based on lies: Al Qaeda and Iraq have no ties according to the CIA Powell's speech was 100% plagiarized from 1991 grad school work 2) this is not the war that the u.s. war gamed against and cost the lives of a lot more people than it should have 3) I said that the UN sanctions killed 1.2 million and I said that out of the millions of people there, lots of civilians could get injured. Which was a correct assumption since the conservative estimates put it at around 1000 Iraqi civilians...not counting Red Cross people that we killed and injured during our bombing campaigns. 4) I stated that membership in terror organizations would spike and make the country less safe...terror groups have had a huge increase in membership. The law says Bush is a war criminal. Will anybody have the balls to prosecute him? f*** no because we've already stated that the "full might of the US military" will go into the Hague and liberate US people. Baggs, WHEN we go to war with Syria and Iran...will you support those too? And Baggs, if you listen to Rummy, they still don't have control of all of Baghdad yet either. This war is still going on. And Baggs, riddle me this....5 million inhabitants of the city if we really controlled it all then why weren't there more people out thanking us like supposedly the entire population wants to? Could it be that they don't like borderline US imperialism. As the noted historian Howard Zinn says "There is no flag large enough to cover up the shame of killing innocents." And riddle me this Baggs, if Saddam had WoMD, wouldn't it make military sense for him to use them during a full scale invasion of his regime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 Apu, Just curious, are you a student? What do you study? Student....studying history education. Focus on US history especially labor history etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 when did i say i advocated it. i have always said it wasn't something i wanted but i understood why it had to happen. you spend your life tearing down the president on a message board, that's fine. i just don't see what it will accomplish. This is actually a very small part of my life, actually. I'm actually out teaching myself recipes etc., volunteering at different places, etc. The anti-war movement/anti-Bush movement has millions of people in it. Even if it doesn't work until 2004 when his ass gets voted out of office, I can take solice in the fact that I can sleep at night with a good conscience doing what I believe in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Bagg - Thanks for the kind words. Nice to see that people do recognize a middle ground sometimes :-). It would be a pleasure to debate folks like you. Things are so hideously angry and polarized on message boards. I am not a liberal but have quoted and referred to such liberals as Thomas L Friedman, David Broder, Michael Kinsley, EJ Dionne and others when I thought they have made a good point. I don't see anything resembling balance on this board. Bush is a Nazi, conservatives are apes, and if we could just elect a Kucinich or a Dean then it would be heaven on earth. How is that a framework for intelligent debate? I am provisionally for this war. When it is over, I want changes in our foreign policy and I want a switch to hydrogen and/or hybrid vehicles as soon as possible. I also want the Bush administration to do what is possible to get our economy on a real growth track like it was in the 50's and 60's. Bush has got to know that his dad had the highest approval rating ever but still lost his reelection bid mostly due to the economy. Anyway, before I ramble any further it's good to see your input. We may have some disagreements but you bring a lot of sense and decorum to this message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Nuances are very hard to deal with in the cyber world, especially when people do not take time to examine matters because they have visceral reactions. The graphics on the link that apu posted are a bit off-setting, designed to emphasize a point. But the facts seem to be there, And hardly surprizing. That the Bush family had financial involvment with I G Faber which was a major industrial ally and benefactor and benefit-receiving compnayh of Hitler - why is that so shocking? Ford Motor and IBM also have there hands stained in blood. Hell, IBM's data processing was advanced many times over by their experience in key-punching technology keeping track of the Jews and what camps they were in. King Edward of England was a Nazi sympathizer and we are are lucky that he abdicated to marry Wallis Simpson rather than be crowned king. The Bush family has financial ties with the bin laden family. Those family ties were used to allow Osama's half-brothers and sisters to leve the US after September 11th. Former president Bush is on a corporate board and a major player in the same coirporation that is making millions out of selling war material including war goods that would not be needed where there not a war. Stop being so shocked, shocked when apu raises issues of war profiteering or that the Bush family, among others, makes financial gains from selling military goods to anyone and profits from whatever happens. Jeb and the other brother whose name I cannot remember worked South America for years before Jeb was elected governor of Florida selling military hardware to some very repressive regimes. I know everyone wants to believe in American innocence and purity and that we only operate with clean hands. We do not. We are a country like any other country and we are no more moral or pure or anything else than anyone else. I am sure I will called out for that, but it is so. Patriotism becomes blinbd nationalism when reality is tossed aside because one clings to the mythos rather than the reality. And the Bushs were not Nazis. I am not informed of whether there were any nazi sympathies in old Prescott Bush. But the financial dealings of the family have been without regard to anything else but short term gain. Same as IBM. Same as other US companies and financial interests. Lots of non Nazis did business with Hitler and got rich while they helped entrench him in power and sold him the means to do what he did. and baggio, the attack on apu for being wrong is not justified. You are bing very premature in many things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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