Pope: Gay marriage is 'evil'?

[KipWellsFan]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/0...reut/index.html

 

"It is legitimate and necessary to ask oneself if this is not perhaps part of a new ideology of evil, perhaps more insidious and hidden, which attempts to pit human rights against the family and against man," he writes.

 

"There is still, however a legal extermination of human beings who have been conceived but not yet born," he writes.

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

I've never been much for the pope, but thank God he's saying this now. The Truth never smelled sweeter.

[CrimsonWeltall]

That evil Western democracy keeps allowing people to be free. We need to go back to the days when the Church ruled over everyone.

[sox4lifeinPA]

take a look out of your nu-punk posters plastered bed room.... the society we live in is nose diving...

 

but I can't expect the blind to see

[Rex Kickass]

Loving who you choose to love = evil.

 

Ok, then.

[CrimsonWeltall]

take a look out of your nu-punk posters plastered bed room.... the society we live in is nose diving...

 

Sup Chicken Little.

 

"OH THE SKY IS FALLING. THE END OF THE WORLD IS COMING SOON. KIDS THESE DAYS DONT KNOW NOTHIN".

 

but I can't expect the blind to see

 

Spare me.

[YASNY]

Sup Chicken Little.

 

"OH THE SKY IS FALLING.  THE END OF THE WORLD IS COMING SOON.  KIDS THESE DAYS DONT KNOW NOTHIN".

Spare me.

 

 

Someday, you'll probably ask someone else to spare you.

[Texsox]

Until someone comes up with a better guide to living, I'll accept the Bible. Worshipping nothing, worshiping whatever feels good, is a fine path to STDs, addictions, and a miserable life.

 

Having said that, I also recognize that some people find interesting interpretations of Bible truths and IMHO are dangerous. But overall, I would rather be in business with a believer than a hedonistic, anything goes, "nice person".

[FlaSoxxJim]

Until someone comes up with a better guide to living, I'll accept the Bible. Worshipping nothing, worshiping whatever feels good, is a fine path to STDs, addictions, and a miserable life.

 

Having said that, I also recognize that some people find interesting interpretations of Bible truths and IMHO are dangerous. But overall, I would rather be in business with a believer than a hedonistic, anything goes, "nice person".

 

But why do you suggest life is so black and white, so all or nothing? You're a more critical thinker than that. Being a secularist doesn't equate with being a "hedonistic, anything goes" person any more than being a spiritualist equates with being an abortion-clinic-bombing, homophobic hatemonger.

 

Spirituality gives meaning and greater purpose to many people's lives, and good for them. For others, spirituality rings hollow and they focus attention on earthly matters and find fulfillment and satisfaction in that, and good for them.

 

It's a disservice to secular-minded people to assume that life in the No God Zone must either equate to total dispair ('Oh, there's no God, what's the point of it all') or total abandonment of one's moral compass.

[SuperSteve]

Loving who you choose to love = evil.

 

Ok, then.

Killing because you love to kill....stealing because it is easier than working...you could make that argument about anything. I do feel in the church gay marriage is wrong...gay marriages and all that are okay, just not in the Church IMHO.,

[CrimsonWeltall]

Killing because you love to kill....stealing because it is easier than working...you could make that argument about anything.

 

?

 

The key in win's post was love, not the form of the sentence. Your examples are not analogous.

 

I do feel in the church gay marriage is wrong...gay marriages and all that are okay, just not in the Church IMHO.,

 

That's fine, but it's not what the Pope was saying.

[Texsox]

But why do you suggest life is so black and white, so all or nothing?  You're a more critical thinker than that.  Being a secularist doesn't equate with being a "hedonistic, anything goes" person any more than being a spiritualist equates with being an abortion-clinic-bombing, homophobic hatemonger.

 

Spirituality gives meaning and greater purpose to many people's lives, and good for them.  For others, spirituality rings hollow and they focus attention on earthly matters and find fulfillment and satisfaction in that, and good for them.

 

It's a disservice to secular-minded people to assume that life in the No God Zone must either equate to total dispair ('Oh, there's no God, what's the point of it all') or total abandonment of one's moral compass.

 

Of course there are many shades in-between. I apologize if I seemed to paint a black and white picture. There is a great deal of "painting with a broad brush" from both sides, and I should have been more careful and not added to it.

 

To me it is all about goals and what are you striving for. To use a political analogy, we know that our office seekers will not be able to fulfill all the promises they make. Political reality being what it is. What we want is to see the vision and the direction the person has. Everyone falls short in some ways. Regardless of how they choose to spend their weekends. I just know those people who have their goals firmly grounded in Biblical truths seem to be happier and weather life's storms better than those that don't.

 

Extremism is unhealthy in just about everything.

[Kid Gleason]

The Pope wrote a book??? Cool, is this like a sequel to the Bible???

[Texsox]

Loving who you choose to love = evil.

 

Ok, then.

 

WDJ, I know you accept some boundaries in all this. Age for one. I will assume mental and physical condition. Would you agree it is wrong to fall in love (and let's assume sex is involved) with a 15 year old when you are 30? Would you agree if someone does not have the mental capacity to agree, that sex with that person is immoral also?

 

Once we have barriers, I can understand, but not agree, with people who feel that gender barriers are natural as well. I've read scripture regarding the issue, read various studies on the "meaning" in Hebrew, Greek, etc. and feel that since it is unclear, and since so many homosexuals I know have fought hard to live a straight life, that it isn't up to me to judge, but to accept. Maybe it's the cowards way out. I respect PAs character to stand up and proclaim his belief without apologizing and I hope he respects my beliefs as well.

 

Further, I think to be polite we are using "love" to mean both the emotion and a sexual act. I don't believe anyone would disagree with loving anyone, it's the physical act that gets some people's tightly whities in a bundle.

[Wong & Owens]

take a look out of your nu-punk posters plastered bed room.... the society we live in is nose diving...

 

but I can't expect the blind to see

 

 

Society is nose-diving? Get YOUR nose out of mass-media reporting and try some independent thought.

 

The society we live in is less racist than it was 100 years ago for example. It is also a better time to live in if you're a woman.

 

Is it better overall? No. Is it worse overall? Hardly. Society has not gotten wholly better or worse, just different. Old problems or issues get resolved, and new ones pop up. Some issues stay constant. But to say that it is "nose diving" is more than a bit on the over-exaggeration side of things. Unless you have some basis for making this statement. Do you? Cause I'd love to hear it.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

WDJ, I know you accept some boundaries in all this. Age for one. I will assume mental and physical condition. Would you agree it is wrong to fall in love (and let's assume sex is involved) with a 15 year old when you are 30? Would you agree if someone does not have the mental capacity to agree, that sex with that person is immoral also?

 

Once we have barriers, I can understand, but not agree, with people who feel that gender barriers are natural as well. I've read scripture regarding the issue, read various studies on the "meaning" in Hebrew, Greek, etc. and feel that since it is unclear, and since so many homosexuals I know have fought hard to live a straight life, that it isn't up to me to judge, but to accept. Maybe it's the cowards way out. I respect PAs character to stand up and proclaim his belief without apologizing and I hope he respects my beliefs as well.

 

Further, I think to be polite we are using "love" to mean both the emotion and a sexual act. I don't believe anyone would disagree with loving anyone, it's the physical act that gets some people's tightly whities in a bundle.

 

And you'd think that the literal word of God would be a bit more clear on that and not be so ambiguous [and I'm talking NT, not OT because if we're gonna pick and choose what OT laws to follow, then we gotta get back on board with slaves, levirate marriage etc. etc. etc. -- I think he'd have to have the linguistic ability...being that he's God.

[kapkomet]

First, the canonization of the Bible and the translations through time from Greek/Hebrew into modern language messes up some things...

 

But, I think there's enough in there to illustrate some pretty defined thoughts on what God will say about this subject, and no, I'm not going to sit here and pass around Bible versus. For those who want or care, they'll look it up, those who don't won't, and everyone will be judged all the same.

 

Either way, winodj, sox4lifeinpa, me, or anyone else reading this will be judged, it's inevitable. But it certainly is NO PERSON'S place to judge, just to accept and love one another even if someone doesn't adhere to your moral compass.

[Texsox]

Society is nose-diving?  Get YOUR nose out of mass-media reporting and try some independent thought.

 

The society we live in is less racist than it was 100 years ago for example.  It is also a better time to live in if you're a woman. 

 

Is it better overall? No.  Is it worse overall?  Hardly. Society has not gotten wholly better or worse, just different.  Old problems or issues get resolved, and new ones pop up.  Some issues stay constant.  But to say that it is "nose diving" is more than a bit on the over-exaggeration side of things.  Unless you have some basis for making this statement.  Do you?  Cause I'd love to hear it.

 

Excellent points. One factor that is here today and not 100 years ago is the pace that society can change. I think we need to be more vigilant that 50 years ago. With all the instant methods of communications, and all the methods that are far more persuasive than before, we could undo 100 years in a decade.

[Rex Kickass]

And you'd think that the literal word of God would be a bit more clear on that and not be so ambiguous [and I'm talking NT, not OT because if we're gonna pick and choose what OT laws to follow, then we gotta get back on board with slaves, levirate marriage etc. etc. etc. -- I think he'd have to have the linguistic ability...being that he's God.

 

I guess love is really one of those loaded words, isn't it? The truth of it all is that when I mean love who you choose to love, I mean consenting adults should be able to have a loving relationship with other mutually consenting adults. Of course there is caveat after caveat about a 35 yo with a 12 yo, or someone forcing a sexual relationship with someone else who isn't capable of returning that treasure. But I'd argue that's just manipulation and isn't really love to begin with.

 

To someone who said that its fine in public but not in the church, I don't have a problem with that. However, in this case the pope was citing the civil recognition of same sex marriage and relationships and granting these couples the same rights and responsibilities of male/female marriage.

 

The truth simply is that equal people deserve equal rights under the auspices of responsible government. Prohibiting two men who wish to enter into a legal covenant like marriage because of no reason other than what's dangling between their legs does not meet that criteria to me.

[FlaSoxxJim]

The truth simply is that equal people deserve equal rights under the auspices of responsible government.

 

Now that's just crazy talk.

[Rex Kickass]

Now that's just crazy talk.

 

That's what happens after you lick coffee tables. (SUTW!)

[Palehosefan]

Prohibiting two men who wish to enter into a legal covenant like marriage because of no reason other than what's dangling between their legs does not meet that criteria to me.

 

Its not neccessarily because of what men have between their legs, its the sin that is created from where that thing dangling between their legs goes. Basically its a slap in God's face using his gift of marriage in the bible to commit sins. But, I also believe alot of homosexuals are born with those feelings and can't really help it. What are they supposed to do? Live a miserable alone life full of miscellaneous partners? There are plenty of heterosexual married couples that commit that same sin as noted above and are just as much in the wrong.

 

I can see both sides of the present day culture argument. Yes we are more advanced with racism, women's rights, and personal rights. Yet, while we are becoming more and more accepting of women's right's, different races, personal right's etc, we are also becoming more and more acceptant of sin and that scares the crap out of me. I read something that like 80% of men look at porn while online and its becoming pretty much normal. Where do personal rights stop and sin/unlawfullness begin? That line is trying to become more and more blurred. Basically we are free to swing our elbows as long as it doesn't hurt our neighbor, unless that neighbor is God, then we just ignore him or buy him a bandaid once in a while and say we are sorry. Human created law apparently pre-empts God's law now. I don't have a problem with people having fun, swing those bows, just be wary of God's nose because at the end of the night, you could be going home with the wrong person for eternity. I'm running out of bandaid's.

[Wong & Owens]

I can see both sides of the present day culture argument. Yes we are more advanced with racism, women's rights, and personal rights. Yet, while we are becoming more and more accepting of women's right's, different races, personal right's etc, we are also becoming more and more acceptant of sin and that scares the crap out of me. I read something that like 80% of men look at porn while online and its becoming pretty much normal.

 

Don't be so naive, porn 1) In and of itself isn't anything I consider to be harmful 2) Has always been used by most guys, it's just the mainstream acceptance of it today allows for easier "census taking" And, since sin is a subjective term, it's hard to tell exactly what it is you mean when you say that "we are more acceptant(sic) of sin."

 

 

Where do personal rights stop and sin/unlawfullness begin? That line is trying to become more and more blurred. Basically we are free to swing our elbows as long as it doesn't hurt our neighbor, unless that neighbor is God, then we just ignore him or buy him a bandaid once in a while and say we are sorry.

I go one step further-- I say he doesn't even exist. But I'm still an excellently moral and just person, and I don't need the fear of offending "daddy" or the infantile threat of eternal hell to keep me on the right path.

 

Human created law apparently pre-empts God's law now. I don't have a problem with people having fun, swing those bows, just be wary of God's nose because at the end of the night, you could be going home with the wrong person for eternity. I'm running out of bandaid's.

 

We won't know until we know, ya know?

[EvilJester99]

That's what I love about religion...the moralists always trying to tell people how to live their lives.

[Palehosefan]

Exactly what I was looking for in responses.

 

Don't be so naive, porn 1) In and of itself isn't anything I consider to be harmful 2) Has always been used by most guys, it's just the mainstream acceptance of it today allows for easier "census taking" And, since sin is a subjective term, it's hard to tell exactly what it is you mean when you say that "we are more acceptant(sic) of sin."

 

Anyone can makeup what they feel is wrong or right, its alot easier that way to not feel so bad about doing it.

 

I go one step further-- I say he doesn't even exist. But I'm still an excellently moral and just person, and I don't need the fear of offending "daddy" or the infantile threat of eternal hell to keep me on the right path.

 

There's no reason a person without God should be considered a bad person for that, thats ignorance if anyone feels that way. Thats awesome that you consider yourself a good person even without fear of hell. But whats so infantile about the threat of hell to keep you on the right path? How is that any different than the law saying "don't break the law or we will lock you up or even execute you"? People want to sin/break the law by nature, if you aren't like that then you must be a truly special person. I know I personally have bad urges all the time and sometimes give in unfortunately. It would be great if people were good by nature and didn't need law or forgiveness, but do you truly feel we are like that? I understand your view, you are a good person because you choose to be, not because someone is forcing you to be, but unfortunately most people aren't like that.

 

We won't know until we know, ya know?

 

I agree 100%. Part of my belief in God is based on this question, would I rather know God and find out he doesn't exist when I die, or would I rather not know God and find out he did exist all along when I die? I have no consequence with the first part of the question except with possibly a more bland life. The second part of the question wouldn't be pretty as infantile as it may be...