A.J. Pierzynski...

February 25, 2005

Lay off the kool-aid then type, you might actaully see the truth for once, instead of being so blindsided by it.

if you win your division you are the champs of that division.. Jim I had respect for you, but your further lack of the truth has made it so clear that you use your heart and not your head when it comes to see KW for what he is..

I don't mean to pick a fight but quite making a case for one of the worse GM in sports, I have friends that are Twins fans, and they say by far KW is the Twins best Weapon, since he has no idea what he is doing it seems year in and year out.

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

WOW you have friends who are Twins fans, what a great place to get information, are you sure they all have the same access to info that you do? If they do, a good suggestion might be to ignore them.

Your Twins fans say that Williams is the best weapon they have ... and you believe it? Maybe because that's what you want to hear?

Talk about thinking with your emotions ...

You preach your opinions as if they're the truth ... memo to you ... they are NOT.

They are your opinions.

Many of your statements are flat out misstatements. You said Atlanta had the same type of budget the White Sox did ... OOPS.

In order to be considered a credible individual in general, you have to look at all the facts, and not just the facts that suit your POV. You've not proven the ability to do that. As one example, it's common knowledge Schueler had input and was behing the Ritchie trade. There is even a quote by Schueler where he acknowledges it. Yet, your over-the-top vendetta against Ken Williams prevents you from assigning any of the blame to Schueler. Why? Because Schueler is your boy.

You are backpeddling on the championship team issue. Be clearer if that's what you mean. It's not so hard to type "division winner" as "championship team". Be clearer so people understand your meaning. That way, there is no room for questioning or argument.

You will also note that nowhere in this thread do I say Ken Williams is a great GM. I give him credit for being aggressive. I give him credit for supporting his managers and trying to get them the personnel they think is necessary to win. He has done that for Guillen, he did that for Manuel (who was Schuler's and Reinsdorfs choice). I never said, nor would I ever suggest, he has not made mistakes.

As for "what KW is ..." I don't know what that means, and very frankly I don't care because I am not the only one on this board who sees your stance on this matter as skewed, at a minimum.

GoodAsGould · February 25, 2005

QUOTE(El Piervizdyeguchansodnik @ Feb 25, 2005 -> 07:57 PM)

Anthrax, while I may not agree with your opinion of Kenny Williams, I will defend your stance.

I am f***ing sick of posters antagonizing you. If you want to keep bashing KW, so be it. It's not their place to stop you and call you names.

f***ing christ, you'd think original opinions are becoming illegal.

its not because he doesnt like KW that he gets bashed is because all his reasons are stupid..... and you can throw oakland out because Beane wasnt responsible for mulder and hudson so lets see them win a division title with only Beane guys.

AnthraxFan93 · February 25, 2005

its not because he doesnt like KW that he gets bashed is because all his reasons are stupid..... and you can throw oakland out because Beane wasnt responsible for mulder and hudson so lets see them win a division title with only Beane guys.

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

Reasons are stupid.. yeah Losing is stupid reason to want a new GM :rolly

February 25, 2005

Its called Rebuilding, which was done..since 95% of those players we traded/let go via FA, did nothing afterwards. We had a pretty damn good farm system on for KW to dismantle it on players like Ritichie.

I would love to eat my words and have this team win something in 05, but until that time, we have now changed the players and Manager..and if we still can't win, there is only 1 person left to blame..and we all know who that is...

Jimmy

:rolly

I think you and I can agree that you put a winning team on the field and watch as our payrolll goes up, but in order for that to happen, we need a GM who can put together a good team on the field, which KW has yet to do.

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

On your last point, maybe we can get a new stadium again so Williams can get the same inflated attendance and resulting payroll flexibility like Schueler had.

Rebuilding and farm system: We had a pretty damn good farm system? Says who? Baseball America? :lol: Go back and look at the 2001 Prospect Handbook and tell me how many of those guys in the #1 rated farm system flamed out. Just about every one. Matt Guerrier was one of the highly touted guys. Go ask your Twins fan friends how he's doing.

You see, I remember ALL of the salient points, not just certain ones to support my point of view. I remember rebuilding the pitching staff around Jamie Navarro, who had arguably among the worst character of any baseball player in recent memory. Not to mention he was awful. I remember Schueler dissing Roger Clemens in favor of Navarro. I remember that '93 and '94 team going into the crapper because the GM at the time sat on his hands and watched his poor personnel decisions send the franchise into a downward attendance spiral.

You are right when you say this team has not won. Interesting though that the core of leaders were all part of that 2000 fluke team ... Ordonez, Valentin, Lee, Thomas, Konerko. Three of them are gone now and Thomas is a big "if". If Williams had the authority you claim he has, it's better than even money Thomas would be long gone too. Don't kid yourself if you think he has total and complete autonomy, or ever did. The buck stops at Reinsdorf's desk on big decisions like getting rid of a name player like Thomas.

It is nowhere near as simple as one guy having 100% of the blame when things go wrong. When you say, "we've changed the players, we've changed the manager, therefore if it doesn't work it has to be the GM" ... again, that is one of your typical generalizations. There are a lot of factors with succeeding and failing, the GM is only one part. If you knew baseball as well as you profess to, this would be such an obvious reality that it wouldn't need to be discussed.

I don't object to someone disliking a GM and in fact, I am more lukewarm on Williams than you might think. Again, nowhere in this thread have I gone out of my way to praise him.

My objection is your ongoing tendancy to make big time generalization statements and paint them as fact. I am but one of many posters who have called you out for exactly the same thing.

Maybe, just maybe, the dozens of posters who take issue with you have a valid point?

February 25, 2005

the truth about KW

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

Once again, you are confusing truth vs. your viewpoint.

There is a difference between truth and your opinion. And pierz, that is the issue here. No one is objecting to anyone's opinion or their ability to express it. I for one take issue with making generalizing statements and trying to shove them onto others as "truth" or "fact".

Soxbadger · February 25, 2005

What I find annoying is how you preface your statements:

also why is that everytime I mention the truth about KW, or another player you all defend him like he has brought us such fame and fortune?

Its every time you mention your OPINION about KW.

You continually rely on the Ritchie trade. A trade he made as a rookie GM. Are you perfect? When you first went to school could you read, do algebra, etc?

Or did you need experience? Time to learn and become acclimated?

KW has shown improvement each year. He has shown a plan, he has shown a desire to put together a great team. Some times he fails, but Edison failed thousands of times before he would get it right 1 time.

Its not what you say, its your know it all attitude that puts people off. Its the way that you put your "facts" into context.

I take adverse positions to the majority of this site many times, last year I said Jose should not play, this year I have said I would like to see Gload get a chance to prove himself, and that I do not think its in the best interest to trade Harris.

But there is a vast difference between having an original opinion, and just repeating KW hate every other post.

And how could anyone have a problem with AJ being signed?

What better options were there at $2mil?

SB

AnthraxFan93 · February 25, 2005

Once again, you are confusing truth vs. your viewpoint.

There is a difference between truth and your opinion. And pierz, that is the issue here. No one is objecting to anyone's opinion or their ability to express it. I for one take issue with making generalizing statements and trying to shove them onto others as "truth" or "fact".

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

Truth.. KW hasn't won s***.. that is not my viewpoint, it is A simple FACT something that If you knew baseball as well as you profess to, this would be such an obvious reality that it wouldn't need to be discussed

Lets just all agree, That KW hasn't done s*** so far to help this team win, cause that is a FACT..

February 25, 2005

Truth.. KW hasn't won s***.. that is not my viewpoint, it is A simple FACT something that If you knew baseball as well as you profess to, this would be such an obvious reality that it wouldn't need to be discussed
Lets just all agree, That KW hasn't done s*** so far to help this team win, cause that is a FACT..

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

You're losing your creativity, that's now the 3rd time you've taken my words and thrown them back at me. Come up with your own words ... if you can.

You said KW has been barely able to put a AAA team on the field. Fact? Hmmm.

You said the White Sox had a pretty damn good farm system only to see Williams dismantle it. Fact? Hmmm. Again, go check the 2001 prospect handbook to see on what basis BA rated it a #1 system.

You said KW hasn't won s***. I think you mean THE TEAM hasn't won s***. Otherwise it would be 2004 World Champion Theo Epstein.

You said KW is one of the worst GMs in all of sports, and back it up by saying your Twins fans told you so. :lol:

You said KW hasn't done s*** to help this team win. Now there is quantifiable statement if I ever heard one.

Bottom line ... you confuse the terms "fact" and "opinion", and funnel the reasons for those opinions onto one individual.

In the reality that is baseball, it is never one guy's fault when looking over the results of an entire year. But if you wish to delude yourself into thinking it is, go right ahead.

Now, see if you can get through an entire response without throwing my phrases back at me. :lol:

February 25, 2005

Lets just all agree, That KW hasn't done s*** so far to help this team win, cause that is a FACT..

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

I've got a better idea, let's not. :bang

Flash Tizzle · February 25, 2005

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Feb 25, 2005 -> 02:28 PM)

Truth.. KW hasn't won s***..

I share this particular criticism of Williams.

Regardless of how he assembles the team to mimmick his "grinder" vision, or whether or not he actively persues improvements for the Sox, it remains clear he has yet to produce a division title.

IMO, these next two seasons are crucial to his reign. Several contracts signed last year/ this offseason expire following 06; at which point the success of "ozzieball" can be appropriately measured. Hopefully, the vision many sox fans (including myself) support will break our 4 year drought.

If someone objects to this, convince me otherwise. Reinsdorf's loyalty, or comparing the corresponding records of Twins/A's GM's during the first several years won't cut it. Results define success; six years without a playoff appearance should be grounds for dismissal.

Edited February 25, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

February 25, 2005

IMO, these next two seasons are crucial to his reign.

<{PO S T_S NAPBAC K }>

Absolutely agree with this. I will further state that ownership will look at all facets of why the team on the field failed or succeeded ... they will not rush to a summary judgement or assign 100% credit/blame to one guy.

santo=dorf · February 25, 2005

Is KW really any worse than the previous Sox GM's we have had? Schueler won a division title off of Himes' farm system, and despite having the 3rd largest payroll in the MLB, he couldn't win s*** after 1993 until 2000.

I could only imagine how b****y Anthrax would be if he were a Twins fan a decade ago. Look at Ryan's first 9 seasons as a GM, and you tell me why he should've still had the title of GM going into the 2001 season.

shakes · February 25, 2005

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Feb 25, 2005 -> 02:42 PM)

IMO, these next two seasons are crucial to his reign. Several contracts signed last year/ this offseason expire following 06; at which point the success of "ozzieball" can be appropriately measured. Hopefully, the vision many sox fans (including myself) support will break our 4 year drought.

I completely agree with this. Kenny has brought in his manager and has been given freedom to bring in some of his players. I think his job depends on these next two seasons. Not to completely discount what he's done the past several seasons, but this team has really been shaped by KW. As a Sox fan, I hope it works. :gosox1:

DBAHO · February 26, 2005

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Feb 26, 2005 -> 07:00 AM)

I can't agree with you anymore, we are all Sox fans.. I think, but if anyone thinks outside of the "Sox-talk" Box you have the Box jumping down your throat. Now if I was to say that KW was the best GM ever and we should sign him to a long term deal...I would be an Admin, as often as I post here.

Somehow I don't think that's ever going to happen. :lol:

Gene Honda Civic · February 26, 2005

QUOTE(El Piervizdyeguchansodnik @ Feb 25, 2005 -> 01:57 PM)

Anthrax, while I may not agree with your opinion of Kenny Williams, I will defend your stance.

I am f***ing sick of posters antagonizing you. If you want to keep bashing KW, so be it. It's not their place to stop you and call you names.

f***ing christ, you'd think original opinions are becoming illegal.

coughcoughinvitehimcoughcough

AngelasDaddy0427 · February 26, 2005

QUOTE(JimH @ Feb 25, 2005 -> 02:22 PM)