Closers vs. Middle Relievers

[southsider17]

Interesting look at the real closers:

 

Closers

 

Let's hope Marte reverts to form this year.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Marte will never be a closer. He seems to have Latroy Hawkins symdrome. Great as a setup man but pisses his pants in the 9th. However that being said I'm more then happy with him in the 8th.

[SuperSteve]

That data is kinda one-sided. The closers all have 50-70 appearances...the other pitchers all have 10-20. Ofcourse it is going to be less over a larger sample.

[southsider17]

That data is kinda one-sided. The closers all have 50-70 appearances...the other pitchers all have 10-20. Ofcourse it is going to be less over a larger sample.

 

 

That's true. But if you're bringing in your closer more often (into situations that are not really critical) to keep him 'sharp', then why bring in someone (middle reliever) who hasn't had enough work (to keep him 'sharp') into truly critical situations?

 

Save these for your "closer" and give the 2 or more run lead, "beginning of the ninth inning, none on, none out" situations to the middle relief guys. Of course, you'll then be denying your "closer" a good chance at padding his stats.

Edited February 28, 2005 by southsider17

[SuperSteve]

That's true.  But if you're bringing in your closer more often (into situations that are not really critical) to keep him 'sharp', then why bring in someone (middle reliever) who hasn't had enough work (to keep him 'sharp') into truly critical situations?

 

Save these for your "closer" and give the 2 or more run lead, "beginning of the ninth inning, none on, none out" situations to the middle relief guys.  Of course, you'll then be denying your "closer" a good chance at padding his stats.

Then you will just be giving the stats to a guy who is worse...so someone like Jon Adkins can get saves? Naw.

[daa84]

Interesting look at the real closers:

 

Closers

 

Let's hope Marte reverts to form this year.

 

the underlying theme in that article is exactly right, and was a sentiment alos explained by jerry manuel a few years ago when he said that you dont alwasy need your closer in the 9th, the most crucial situation could be in the 7th or 8th. I have always held the belief that the closer is the most overrated position in all of baseball, and is used incorrectly. They are most often used improperly and rarely see the toughest situation. The proof is evident. watch the mlb playoffs. all of a sudden when teh game is must win, you see closers coming in during the 7th inning and pitching 2 or 3 innings (as lidge smoltz rivera and nathan all did...foulke too). This doesnt mean that the closer shoudl never pitch teh ninth for a save, it just means he should not be held exclusively for the ninth, especially when he is most often the teams best relief pitcher. the one problem i have with teh argument in the article is that i see know harm in bringing the closer in teh ninth with when you are up 3 if the closer is in no danger to be overworked. you are trying to win a game, and using your best pitcher to do so. If your closer is in danger of getting overworked, then yes, it is a mistake to pitch him with a 3 run lead when another reliever can do the job.

[DonkeyKongerko]

I guess it's hard to notice a good middle reliever. All he does is shut the opposition down in a late inning while the SPs and closers get all the glory. I still didn't like Marte in save situations in 2004, I hope he bounces back to '02-'03 form this year.

[southsider17]

the underlying theme in that article is exactly right, and was a sentiment alos explained by jerry manuel a few years ago when he said that you dont alwasy need your closer in the 9th, the most crucial situation could be in the 7th or 8th. I have always held the belief that the closer is the most overrated position in all of baseball, and is used incorrectly. They are most often used improperly and rarely see the toughest situation. The proof is evident. watch the mlb playoffs. all of a sudden when teh game is must win, you see closers coming in during the 7th inning and pitching 2 or 3 innings (as lidge smoltz rivera and nathan all did...foulke too). This doesnt mean that the closer shoudl never pitch teh ninth for a save, it just means he should not be held exclusively for the ninth, especially when he is most often the teams best relief pitcher. the one problem i have with teh argument in the article is that i see know harm in bringing the closer in teh ninth with when you are up 3 if the closer is in no danger to be overworked. you are trying to win a game, and using your best pitcher to do so. If your closer is in danger of getting overworked, then yes, it is a mistake to pitch him with a 3 run lead when another reliever can do the job.

 

Exactly!

[The Critic]

I guess it's hard to notice a good middle reliever.  All he does is shut the opposition down in a late inning while the SPs and closers get all the glory.  I still didn't like Marte in save situations in 2004, I hope he bounces back to '02-'03 form this year.

I know they're trying to get them noticed with the "hold" category, but that stat just doesn't have the juice that a save has.

A hold in most other sports is a penalty or foul, but in baseball it's supposed to be GOOD all of a sudden????