AddisonStSox Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 10:20 AM) Sure could.. my guess is straight up for Bernie the Brewer. We'd be coming out on top with that one Steff. That guy's comedic value is through the roof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Instead of Helms, a guy like Bill Hall might be a better fit. He's played 68 games at SS, 68 at 2b, and 14 at 3b. I know he's a .264 hitter in the minors. But he has some pop, is versatile, and hits RH pitchers better than LHP. His defensive numbers aren't great. But he was the Brewers #2 prospect at one time, coming up as a SS. Here's his BA write up back in 2002: "no player in the organization moved up more than Hall did in 2001. Ranked as the club's #21 prospect a yr ago, he was named the Brewers' minor league player of the year. He showed the offensive capabilities to be something special at SS, though he found the going a lot tougher at AA Hunstville. Few SS's can hit like Hall. Not only did he hit for avg at high A , but he also showed previously untapped power. Hall also runs well and has great range in the field. He often gts cute on defense, resulting in needless errors. Hall had a combined 45 errors in 2001, a career high. He gets to balls other SS's don't, but he has to learn when to eat the ball and when to attempt a fabulous play. He also must work onplate discipline, as shown by his .279 OBP in AA. If Hall's defense catches up to his offense, look out. One member of the organization compares him to Miguel Tejada at this stage of their careers. Tejada's defense once was considered a possible roadblock to the majors as well" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 10:24 AM) We'd be coming out on top with that one Steff. That guy's comedic value is through the roof! And Willie doesn't have any comedic value? Watch him stand on first befuddled trying to read a pitcher. Now THAT is comedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 10:35 AM) Instead of Helms, a guy like Bill Hall might be a better fit. He's played 68 games at SS, 68 at 2b, and 14 at 3b. I know he's a .264 hitter in the minors. But he has some pop, is versatile, and hits RH pitchers better than LHP. His defensive numbers aren't great. But he was the Brewers #2 prospect at one time, coming up as a SS. Here's his BA write up back in 2002: "no player in the organization moved up more than Hall did in 2001. Ranked as the club's #21 prospect a yr ago, he was named the Brewers' minor league player of the year. He showed the offensive capabilities to be something special at SS, though he found the going a lot tougher at AA Hunstville. Few SS's can hit like Hall. Not only did he hit for avg at high A , but he also showed previously untapped power. Hall also runs well and has great range in the field. He often gts cute on defense, resulting in needless errors. Hall had a combined 45 errors in 2001, a career high. He gets to balls other SS's don't, but he has to learn when to eat the ball and when to attempt a fabulous play. He also must work onplate discipline, as shown by his .279 OBP in AA. If Hall's defense catches up to his offense, look out. One member of the organization compares him to Miguel Tejada at this stage of their careers. Tejada's defense once was considered a possible roadblock to the majors as well" Sounds too much like Jose. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(shakes @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 04:37 PM) Sounds too much like Jose. :puke If Jose could play 3 spots and only made $300 k, I'd take him. I don't know anything about Hall, or if he's the butcher in the field his stats make him out to be. But if he had good tools for a back up, he would seem to meet the sox requirements for UTL guy---hits RH, has some pop, can play SS mostly and also 3b and 2b; has some speed for late inning pinch running. IMO, sounds like a much better fit than Helms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 You guys... isn't it obvious that it will be Willie for Ben Sheets... Just like it was predicted last year. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 10:51 AM) You guys... isn't it obvious that it will be Willie for Ben Sheets... Just like it was predicted last year. :rolly Wow I think the Brew Crew should have to kick in a little more if they want Big Willie for only Ben Sheets... Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Ill take him over willie any day. Imagine what Brooks boyer could do with this guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Anyone interested in seeing some of Bill Hall, check out mlb's brewers top plays archive. Hall is on there a lot, for his defense, Hr's, GW hits [3 of them], a 3B vs the cubs on 8-17. The best was 4-27 when he hit a GW 2run HR with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth and the brewers down 8-7. Also his GW squeeze bunt the next day on 4-28. http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/NASApp/ml...ve.jsp?c_id=mil For a UTL guy, Hall could be a nice find for the sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Re: Bill Hall, it would be a case of change of scenery for both players. Brewers are concerned with Hall's undisciplined play on offense and defense. But yes, I agree, Hall would probably be a better fit than Helms but IMO Hall is nothing special either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(rangercal @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 05:12 PM) Ill take him over willie any day. Imagine what Brooks boyer could do with this guy! Odds are, at least one of those K's in the picture belonged to Helms. This makes sense. We'd be getting a crappy version of Joe Randa for roughly the same salary. If the Sox are bound and determined to get rid of Willie (which makes zero sense, but I'll take it as given), at least get someone with some upside, not a rental journeyman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 05:33 PM) Re: Bill Hall, it would be a case of change of scenery for both players. Brewers are concerned with Hall's undisciplined play on offense and defense. But yes, I agree, Hall would probably be a better fit than Helms but IMO Hall is nothing special either. Hall plus a minor league arm would probably do it for me for Harris. Harris has "proven" himself a little, Hall hasn't. Hall could provide the sox with a possible SS should Uribe go down, and give Iguchi a rest vs some RHP's [as he hits better vs RHp than LH]. Check out Hall's highlights though. He showed he has a lot of tools and more to give the sox than Willie. The numbers by themselves look a little ugly. SS also was/ is his best position. With the Brewers going with JJ Hardy, Hall should be gone. [though I don't see a backup SS for them] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 nice to get hosed by the brew crew twice since the 04 season if this happens Royce never became the player people thought he might be, but I'd take him on my team. tradin Carlos got us SPod, Luis, El Duque, AJ...But we got hosed??. No games have been played yet. But you're SURE. The Royce comment stands by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 We should be gald if we get Helms... Who here thought a bag of balls was to much for WH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) The Royce comment stands by itself. So does your avatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Why is everyone in a rush to trade Willie? You can't teach speed. And what happens if Iguchi turns out to be a bust. I say wait till mid-season before they trade Willie anywhere. His speed will be a valuable asset off the bench during those late inning situations. Keep him around for awhile. We do need a backup Util INF but we can trade other players to aqcuire that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Why is everyone in a rush to trade Willie? You can't teach speed. And what happens if Iguchi turns out to be a bust. I say wait till mid-season before they trade Willie anywhere. His speed will be a valuable asset off the bench during those late inning situations. Keep him around for awhile. We do need a backup Util INF but we can trade other players to aqcuire that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ANd you can't teach willie how to use that speed to steal a base every once is a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 tradin Carlos got us SPod, Luis, El Duque, AJ."" we could have gotten more for Lee. We didn't get Duque and AJ for him. We could have traded Lee for a better player like Castillo and still have made some signings. How come I'm foolish for believing it was a bad deal now, but you aren't for thinking it was a good deal already? Probably has something to do with the only opinions welcome around this site anymore are those made by the kool-aid drinkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Probably has something to do with the only opinions welcome around this site anymore are those made by the kool-aid drinkers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Totally disagree. Your posts are always pretty well thought out and reasonable, and you don't seem to have any kind of personal agenda ... not sure where you're getting the notion your opinions aren't welcome here. Seems to me that whenever people like the moves that have been made and argue the point with those who don't, they're accused of being Kool Aid drinkers. Kind of a generalization IMO. In addition, again IMO, the phrase Kool Aid drinker has long since worn out its welcome ... way over used. My impression is though, this being a fan site, it tends to be populated by people who are passionately hopeful about the team ... and hence tend to take a more optimistic slant. Maybe that's why it might seem like you're outnumbered or something, I don't know. But if your opinions weren't welcome/tolerated, somebody would've booted you off the site, no? I actually think your opinions and viewpoints are good, you don't have that sarcastic "know it all" tone at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 07:24 PM) tradin Carlos got us SPod, Luis, El Duque, AJ."" we could have gotten more for Lee. We didn't get Duque and AJ for him. We could have traded Lee for a better player like Castillo and still have made some signings. How come I'm foolish for believing it was a bad deal now, but you aren't for thinking it was a good deal already? Probably has something to do with the only opinions welcome around this site anymore are those made by the kool-aid drinkers. Hopefully it's just b/c it's the beginning of a new season, and we all really want to be optimistic. It's too long of a season o/w. So even the posters who are mostly sceptical about the off-season moves (including the Lee trade) are not eager to get in any argument after which they'll be pigeonholed as 'wanting the Sox to lose' or some crap like that. Fwiw, I agree with a lot of what you say, and I also see where you're coming from on this. Lately the site does feel almost aggressively optimistic, not very welcoming to those who disagree with Ozzie. Just ignore it and keep posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 12:48 PM) So does your avatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 01:24 PM) tradin Carlos got us SPod, Luis, El Duque, AJ."" we could have gotten more for Lee. We didn't get Duque and AJ for him. We could have traded Lee for a better player like Castillo and still have made some signings. How come I'm foolish for believing it was a bad deal now, but you aren't for thinking it was a good deal already? Probably has something to do with the only opinions welcome around this site anymore are those made by the kool-aid drinkers. We did free up money from the Lee trade that allowed us to sign El Duque and AJ, thus they are a byproduct of the trade. I never said it was a good trade and you are wrong. I said you are acting like it's a complete failure before ONE game has been played. You may be right and it is ok to be weary of a deal, but to claim a deal is completely 100% failure before one ball and been thrown is drinking the negative kool-aid. You may turn out to be right, but I was suggesting reserving judgment until we see how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Thank you for the kind words, despite our occasional disagreements, I respect your opinion. I just feel that I am not getting a lot of joy out of coming to this site lately because I feel that people are branding dissenting opinions as being agenda driven-as you pointed out. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Sox fan. I just find it frustrating to be antagonized at times on this board. I am not a dissenter. But some of my opinions do not fall in line with management or even most sox fans. I just think this site has shifted (in the last couple of months) into a "talk radio" message board. I think those who have questions about the Sox are often just trying to rile up people on this board for the most part. I don't want soxtalk to morph into a place where there is only one line of thinking and I will continue to point out when I think the board is regressing to that place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 01:06 PM) ANd you can't teach willie how to use that speed to steal a base every once is a while Spod Total SB's thru age 26 = 190 -- In 9 minor league seasons. WH total SB's thru age 26 = 184 -- in 6 years of professional baseball(Minors and majors) Looks to me like Spod is the slow learner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Mar 3, 2005 -> 06:04 PM) Spod Total SB's thru age 26 = 190 -- In 9 minor league seasons. WH total SB's thru age 26 = 184 -- in 6 years of professional baseball(Minors and majors) Looks to me like Spod is the slow learner... out of curiousity whats the point of that info... all that matters is major league production... and spod beats willie there anyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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