Willie to Milwaukee rumor

[Guest JimH]

Pods has so far been great, and I personally think that if he gets over hitting HR's and tries to be an Ichiro type player that he will hit near .300.

 

Had he hit .300 last year here is how his numbers would of changed;

 

192 hits (+36), 100 r (+15), and 80 sb (+10)

 

These are the type of numbers that we traded for.

 

Between Rowand and Harris our lead off hitter

 

Rowand (163ab):

31r 52h .319avg

 

Harris (337ab):

50r 89h  .264avg

 

Uribe (97ab):

16r 28h  .289avg

 

If Pods puts up the same numbers as last year, we might as well have kept Lee because we already had a tandem that could put up similar numbers.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Looking at it strictly by the numbers, yes.

 

The team didn't win though. Plus there are some real questions whether or not certain players played a team game, however Guillen defines it. Some of those guys are not here any more.

 

They changed the dynamic and we'll see how it works out.

[CWSGuy406]

Looking at it strictly by the numbers, yes.

 

The team didn't win though.  Plus there are some real questions whether or not certain players played a team game, however Guillen defines it.  Some of those guys are not here any more.

 

They changed the dynamic and we'll see how it works out.

 

Jim, I agree with you that that aspect didn't work, but it wasn't the lineup's fault.

 

Our pitching has sucked the past three seasons. It hasn't been the lineup's fault -- it's been on the shoulder of some really bad pitching. Even in 2003, we didn't have a legit number five.

 

Also, Soxbadger, you sort of touched on this, but I wanted to post this, and I didn't think it deserved it's own thread.

 

This excerpt is from an article in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel -- registration is required, but just an email address, free. Link

 

It's about Carlos Lee...

 

Despite his production in Chicago, Lee apparently rubbed some people the wrong way. Without referring to Lee by name, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen criticized him during the team's winter fan fest for going into second base "like his wife was turning the double play" in an important late-season game against Minnesota.

 

As might be expected, Lee was more than a bit miffed that his former manager took a shot at him after being traded.

 

"That's weak," Lee said. "I played hurt for him. Now, he says I'm a selfish player. I worked hard there. He's saying the same thing about 'Mags' (Magglio Ordoñez, who signed with Detroit) now.

 

"He should say that when I'm there, not after I leave."

 

Just kind of funny, how Ozzie never addressed this when Carlos was in town, yet now he does it, now that Lee's out of town.

 

Just interesting...

 

And, Badger -- Cheat -- Jackie -- a big to you in this thread.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I think the 9 for 20 of Uribe was Ozzie ball gone awry. I enjoy it but some guys can't run. Some guys need the breaks put on them.

[Soxbadger]

Part of keeping Lee meant that we could have traded him for a different package of players.

 

And yah Ive read about the sliding thing, luckily I just dont think to much about it because many times last year Lee looked really good.

 

Ah well, I just really really hope Pods turns into our version of Ichiro.

 

SB

[Reddy]

i dont think uribe is anywhere near the question mark of harris. we know he can hit ML Pitching... that streak he had going was amazing last year and he ended up w/ 23 hrs to boot. Harris doesnt match that... theres no way he's as valuable to the team...

[Punch and Judy Garland]

one thing i think we can all agree on is that we can't afford to have a month or two at a time this year where uribe/harris hit .120. That was a real problem last year, hopefully they will both be more consistent this season

[CWSGuy406]

i dont think uribe is anywhere near the question mark of harris.  we know he can hit ML Pitching... that streak he had going was amazing last year and he ended up w/ 23 hrs to boot.  Harris doesnt match that... theres no way he's as valuable to the team...

 

Uribe is a career .266 hitter with a .307 OBP. And, all of this coming while playing in two of the best hitting parks in all of baseball.

 

Sure thing, huh?

 

Certainly not, IMHO.

 

That said, I'm not going to stick a label on neither Harris nor Uribe yet. Both of them have

[qwerty]

one thing i think we can all agree on is that we can't afford to have a month or two at a time this year where uribe/harris hit .120. That was a real problem last year, hopefully they will both be more consistent this season

 

Hopefully podsednik's .244 and 70 stolen base ass will hit over .250 more than two months of the season too?

[Punch and Judy Garland]

well let's not get too crazy here

[Reddy]

Uribe is a career .266 hitter with a .307 OBP.  And, all of this coming while playing in two of the best hitting parks in all of baseball.

 

Sure thing, huh?

 

Certainly not, IMHO.

 

That said, I'm not going to stick a label on neither Harris nor Uribe yet.  Both of them have

 

but hes also consistantly improving. i guess we'll see...

[CWSGuy406]

but hes also consistantly improving.  i guess we'll see...

 

The same can be said for Harris, no?

 

He improved heavily based on his AB's from 2003 to 2004 -- AVG went up .050+ points, OBP improved .080+ points...

 

Other than Jim, many critics of Harris are awful quick to turn a blind eye to others who have the same problems.

 

But I'll leave it at that, because I definitely don't know what goes on behind the scenes (read: work ethic, etc.) -- but that's not me labeling him as a hard worker, or a lazy man.

Edited March 4, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[witesoxfan]

I gotta bad feeling about letting Willie go...I don't give a s*** what kind of attitude he has, I just gotta bad feeling about it.

 

The fact that Iguchi is here tells me all I need to know...the writing is on the wall. Willie is gone.

 

The fact that he put up .280 .365 against RHP last year speaks volumes for me...considering that it was basically his first year in the majors, and the fact that 80% of the pitchers in the league are RH, that tells me we would have a .365 OBP guy at the top of our order 80% of the time, and you know he is going to improve with his base stealing as he gets older, as he gains more experience, starts to pick up some of the nuiansces, and just improves his technique. We are losing a very solid ball player in Harris, and he will bloom somewhere else.

 

He is gone, to whomever, and he will put up solid numbers with whomever. When given consistent playing time, he is a very solid starting 2Bman.

[YASNY]

Just kind of funny, how Ozzie never addressed this when Carlos was in town, yet now he does it, now that Lee's out of town.

 

Just interesting...

 

For the record, this is inaccurate. I distinctly remember KW saying something to the effect that Carlos Lee was basically called in the carpet, and now he understands what we expect of him. This was shortly after that Burke-Hunter game.

Edited March 4, 2005 by YASNY

[beck72]

All I know is, after listening to today's game, wow would I love to pry Alex Cintron away from the Diamondbacks.  Simply put, that kid can play the game.  My dad has watched him play quite a bit since he lives in the Phoenix area and he is not effusive with praise at all ... he says Cintron is "a talent".

 

Cintron also was at 3b and fielded a Timo bunt, threw him out by a lot, Farmer said. If he can play solid 3b, the sox should strike a deal for him. The question is, would the sox give up the pitching for him [adkins probably].

 

Then trading willie wouldn't have near the drawbacks. The sox would have another young guy with upside. Hell, the sox could still get a guy like Bill Hall and groom him at AAA for a bench role. He has the tools but could use the time to make adjustments. that way, the sox have two guys waiting in the wings in case of injury to any of the sox 3 starters, Crede, Juan and Tad.

[daa84]

Uribe is a career .266 hitter with a .307 OBP.  And, all of this coming while playing in two of the best hitting parks in all of baseball.

 

Sure thing, huh?

 

Certainly not, IMHO.

 

That said, I'm not going to stick a label on neither Harris nor Uribe yet.  Both of them have

 

uribe is younger than harris for starters. two, he is way way way more projectable than harris is offensively. Harris's ceiling would probably turn him into a dave roberts type player. uribe probably will hit upper 20s to 30 homers in his prime and might even touch .300 during that stretch. uribe also plays 3 positions on the infield. harris plays second and an average center field, on a team that already has 4-5 guys who can play center (rowand pods timo carl and borch). sure looking at career numbers for uribe is fine, but if you are gonna do that, than dont just look at willies numbers from last year, but his as a whole as well.

[CWSGuy406]

uribe is younger than harris for starters. two, he is way way way more projectable than harris is offensively. Harris's ceiling would probably turn him into a dave roberts type player. uribe probably will hit upper 20s to 30 homers in his prime and might even touch .300 during that stretch. uribe also plays 3 positions on the infield. harris plays second and an average center field, on a team that already has 4-5 guys who can play center (rowand pods timo carl and borch). sure looking at career numbers for uribe is fine, but if you are gonna do that, than dont just look at willies numbers from last year, but his as a whole as well.

 

I'm not comparing potential, or ceilings -- I like Uribe a lot, I think he has a chance to be a real good shortstop. And his ceiling is much higher than that of Harris'. I'm just saying, he's not a 'sure-thing', like the poster who I was responding to called him...

Edited March 4, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[AddisonStSox]

Other than Jim, many critics of Harris are awful quick to turn a blind eye to others who have the same problems.

 

Knock it off Keith. There is a reason the entire organization soured on Willie. Just deal with it. If anything, the Willie-boosters are the ones that are refusing to accept his attitude issues.

 

As for on-field problems, I'll criticize any player on the White Sox. I'm not trying to protect anyone here. Uribe has his problems too. Big problems actually. If he continues hitting schizophrenically (a problem I do not anticipate going away) the Sox are going to need other guys to step-up. Hawk said it best: Uribe is going to be the hottest players in baseball at times, and at other times, he's going to slump with the worst of them. With a swing that ugly, we are going to have to take whatever we can get.

 

I have even said, at this juncture, I would rather keep Willie to spell Iguchi because he is one of the cheapest solutions out there and has the ability to produce. So, no. I'm not turning a blind eye to others who have the same problems.

 

It doesn't seem like Kenny can bring in the utlity, veteran MI I was hoping for, so, hold on to Willie and see what you can get around the trade deadline when teams are getting desperate. Who knows, maybe Iguchi slumps horribly and we need to start Willie everyday. I'm fine with that, as long as the Willie-boosters hold off on his induction to Cooperstown and admit he's a f***ing mess on the base paths. Dude can't hit LHP either. Don't forget his attitude all the while.

[Soxbadger]

There is a reason the entire organization has soured on Harris

 

That is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but I doubt that every one in the organization dislikes Harris. A few weeks back I posted that for sure Walker still liked Harris, so that means atleast 1 of his immediate superiors does not fall into your category.

 

Just because the organization, or more specifically Ozzie does not like Harris, does not mean that I am just going to blindly follow and say:

 

"Ozzie knows everything."

 

Ozzie was a rookie manager, who handled his players pretty badly. Not to mention, I myself never once saw Harris's attitude problem. All I ever saw was a guy who was being tinkered with who showed up and gave his best every day.

 

I cant comment on what I can not see, so since I never saw Harris's problem, its very hard for me to so blindly follow Ozzie, a guy who consistently needs to put his foot in his own mouth.

 

SB

[AddisonStSox]

Just because the organization, or more specifically Ozzie does not like Harris, does not mean that I am just going to blindly follow and say:

 

"Ozzie knows everything."

 

 

 

Please don't lump me in that catagory. I have formed my own opinion. This has nothing to do with blindly following anyone, espcially Ozzie. Believe me, I don't put much faith into anything Ozzie says. I wasn't pleased with his hire last year and he still has to prove to me he can cut it as a manager in the bigs. Right now, I can't even picture Ozzie holding up an AL pennant, and def. not a WS trophy. So, cut me a little bit of slack here, I by no means am a blind Ozzie follower.

[Soxbadger]

Then why did you preface your argument with:

 

There is a reason the entire organization soured on Willie

 

And not at all say the reason.

 

Seems that you are just following the Guillen's souring on Willie.

 

SB

[YASNY]

Regardless of why the organization has soured on Harris, the fact remains that they obviously have. The signing of Iguchi tells that tale.

[Rowand44]

How many runs did Pods SB's in the past two days lead to?

 

For stealing 70 SB's last season he only scored 85 runs.  What a joke.  They don't mean s***. 

 

Gimme a guy who can get on base more often, and doesn't give away outs by getting thrown out.  They turn the the line-up over and give the team more opportunities than a low OBP his steals guy.

Wait, you're going to use 2 spring training games for your argument. That's a joke. Perhaps you'd like Mark Kotsay over Pods who had a .370 obp to Scott's .313 last year. Kotsay also had the better hitters in back of him, yet Mark doesn't run at all. Scott still scored more runs then Kotsay last year. Now I'm not saying scott doesn't have to get on base more this year, cause he does and I'm almost certain he will but to say stolen bases are meaningless is a complete joke to me.

[SoxAce]

Why is it that when uribe got picked off only a couple people complained? He is by far our worst base runner on the team in my opinion and to top it off he got picked off at second.

 

Someone has to take over for Carlos Lee..

[3E8]

How many runs did Pods SB's in the past two days lead to?

 

How many runs did Pods .800 OBP in the past two days lead to?

[Gene Honda Civic]

Wait, you're going to use 2 spring training games for your argument.  That's a joke.  Perhaps you'd like Mark Kotsay over Pods who had a .370 obp to Scott's .313 last year.  Kotsay also had the better hitters in back of him, yet Mark doesn't run at all.  Scott still scored more runs then Kotsay last year.  Now I'm not saying scott doesn't have to get on base more this year, cause he does and I'm almost certain he will but to say stolen bases are meaningless is a complete joke to me.

Hells yeah I'd take Mark Kotsay over scooter.

 

SB's mean nothing. In 2004, there was a negative correlation between runs scored and Stolen bases. Baseball is about scoring runs.

 

Correlation to RS

BA - .80

OBP - .87

SLG - .92

OPS - .97

SB - -.16

 

Chicks dig the longball, and so do I. (I'm a sucker for the suicide sqeeze too, but those actually equate to runs scored)