Frank invited to testify about steroids

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Updated: Mar. 3, 2005, 6:58 PM ET

McGwire, Giambi, Schilling also on list

Associated Press

 

 

WASHINGTON -- Former slugger Jose Canseco and several players he has accused of joining him in abusing steroids have been invited to testify before a House committee.

 

then later on it says...

 

Also on the invitation list are Palmeiro, Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling, current Baltimore Orioles slugger Sammy Sosa and Frank Thomas of the Chicago White Sox.

 

There is not one word about either Schilling or Frank never having been accused of using steroids. To the casual baseball fan, which I'd conversatively estimate comprises 50% of all baseball fans, seeingFranks and Schillings name lumped in with all the rest of the ones who have been accused makes it look like guilt by association.

 

The Associated Press should watch how they word their stories. Not mentioning that sum of the players invited have never been accused of using steroids is just plain irresponsible journalism.

 

Also, the new steroids policy in baseball doesnt include HGH (Human Growth Hormone). HGH often changes the appearance of the facial structure. Many people in and around baseball think they have noticed changes in some players faces and heads ,most noticeably Bonds and Sosa.

 

A player could pass the current drug test while stiil taking HGH.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I don't.

I agree, he's not, and wouldn't.

I disagree.. Frank should do anything he can to bring attention to the issue and show others, specifically kids comming up in college, how to do things the right way. Positive PR never hurts, and Arn will make sure Frank comes out smelling like a rose.

He plays major league baseball. Major league baseball players are under investigation. Strong association there..

 

Scenario: I'm a kid trying to decide wether to use steroids. Maybe I know Bonds , Caminiti, Canseco and Giambi have all won MVP'S. Maybe I know Lyle Alzado and other have died or been disfigured because of overabuse of steroids. "Oh wait" I say to myself, "Frank Thomas has won 2 MVP's and would have had a 3rd if not for Giambi. Maybe I can do it without steroids. Hmmm what does Frank Thomas and all these other guys have that I don't have? A huge muscular body. I'll get caught if i use steroids. Hello, HGH is still usable and not included in the drug policy. HGH is the way to go now if i want a big body. "

 

Frank Thomas' influence re: "right way to do things" means nothing if you don't have his kind of physique, which is why guys use the stuff in the first place.

[YASNY]

Scenario: I'm a kid trying to decide wether to use steroids. Maybe I know Bonds , Caminiti, Canseco and Giambi have all won MVP'S. Maybe I know Lyle Alzado and other have died or been disfigured because of overabuse of steroids. "Oh wait" I say to myself, "Frank Thomas has won 2 MVP's and would have had a 3rd if not for Giambi. Maybe I can do it without steroids. Hmmm what does Frank Thomas and all these other guys have that I don't have? A huge muscular body. I'll get caught if i use steroids.  Hello, HGH is still usable and not included in the drug policy. HGH is the way to go now if i want a big body. "

 

Frank Thomas' influence re: "right way to do things"  means nothing if you don't have his kind of physique, which is why guys use the stuff in the first place.

 

Which is EXACTLY why all of this stuff is wrong! It's why the need to listen to Jeff Kent and get tougher policy. They need to send the message that this will not be tolerated.

Edited March 5, 2005 by YASNY

[southsider2k5]

Oh. I'm sure Bonds can be "persuaded" to attend. 

 

And a Congressional supena would be a great motivational devise. Its almost a crime for him not to be there.

[Texsox]

And a Congressional supena would be a great motivational devise.  Its almost a crime for him not to be there.

 

 

Bonds "I said I testified, but I didn't *know* it was testimony"

Bonds "I know I swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, but I don't know what the truth is"

Edited March 6, 2005 by Texsox

[kdhargo]

Frank is being "asked" for two reasons:

 

1. His outspoken words about being completely against steroids.

2. His 'connection' to Canseco (which was much prior to Canseco's 2001 season w/ the Sox)

 

Excerpt from Canseco's book.....

Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big

Jose Canseco; ReganBooks, 2005; p 87-88.

 

"One night back in 1990, I was back in Florida for the off-season, and Frank Thomas was one of the several players who had come down there for a card show. We did what we had to do at the card show, pocketed cash, and decided to go out afterward.

 

Frank rode with me in my Ferrari. We were leaving the restaurant, and two Porsches pulled up and wanted to race me. That happened a lot in Florida. If you had a car like that, people always wanted to see what it could do. So the next thing you knew, Frank and I were racing these two Porsches -- or I guess I was doing the racing and Frank was just holding on for dear life. He was already nervous at that point.

 

We had the Ferrari out on the highway doing about 130 miles an hour, and I didn't realize that up ahead, the highway was turning right on the short side. Frank, sitting in the passenger's seat, had a better view. I could feel him tensing up.

 

"Jose!" he said.

"Frank, I got it," I told him.

"Oh s***!" he said.

 

I downshifted and braked hard and the Ferrari went into a spin. We almost hit the railing, but I pulled out of it easily enough, and once I did, I glanced over at Frank. I've never in my whole life seen such a big guy look so scared. Frank thought for sure I'd killed us both. He was white, just stone-cold white -- which was unusual for a black man."

Edited March 6, 2005 by kdhargo

[JUGGERNAUT]

This is a no-brainer. You basically have Bonds making a case as to why MLB players need steroids & performance enhancers the other day to make it through the grueling season.

 

Who better to give a counterpoint to that than Frank?

[Steff]

Frank Thomas' influence re: "right way to do things"  means nothing if you don't have his kind of physique, which is why guys use the stuff in the first place.

 

 

 

No offense, but IMO this is BS also. I know plenty of sucess stories in MLB that are much smaller than Frank. They did things the right way.

[ptatc]

Scenario: I'm a kid trying to decide wether to use steroids. Maybe I know Bonds , Caminiti, Canseco and Giambi have all won MVP'S. Maybe I know Lyle Alzado and other have died or been disfigured because of overabuse of steroids. "Oh wait" I say to myself, "Frank Thomas has won 2 MVP's and would have had a 3rd if not for Giambi. Maybe I can do it without steroids. Hmmm what does Frank Thomas and all these other guys have that I don't have? A huge muscular body. I'll get caught if i use steroids.  Hello, HGH is still usable and not included in the drug policy. HGH is the way to go now if i want a big body. "

 

Frank Thomas' influence re: "right way to do things"  means nothing if you don't have his kind of physique, which is why guys use the stuff in the first place.

 

 

I believe HGH is in the drug policy. The problem is HGH can only be detected with a blood test and the MLB only uses urine samples.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Frank Thomas is not going to make the HOF because he's a massive man.

He's going to make the HOF because in the 90's he was the most dangerous hitter in baseball. He's going to make the HOF because his career OPS is among the best the game has ever seen. He's going to make the HOF because in the 90's he was the toughest out in baseball & in this decade he is still proving to be a very tough out.

 

Very little of that has to do with steriods or performance enhancing drugs.

Frank has gotten the worst wrap for an expected HOFer I can think of. Yes he has b****ed about his contract at times. But lets not forget that when it's all said & done Frank will be near the top of price vs performance players since free agency came into being. In my opinion that justifies the times he has b****ed about the his contract. He's yet to sign a contract or choose a team over the Sox that suggests greed.

 

Frank is an ideal role model for young athletes because he demonstrates the need for a baseball player to be both patient & aggressive at the same

time. His doubles are just as impressive as his HR's & you don't need performance enhancing drugs to hit DB's.

 

As good as Bonds' numbers are Frank might have put up similar numbers if he had played his career in a park tailored to him. Imagine the numbers Frank puts up playing for the Astros over his career & having close to the same # of AB's as Bonds. MLB needs Frank to step up to the limelight & be the poster child for the league.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

No offense, but IMO this is BS also. I know plenty of sucess stories in MLB that are much smaller than Frank. They did things the right way.

 

 

No offense but your original argument was about Frank's influence not other players "much smaller then Frank".

[Steff]

No offense but your original argument was about Frank's influence not other players "much smaller then Frank".

 

 

Exactly, so what is your point bringing his size into it?

His size has nothing to do with "doing things the right way". A 6'5" 230 guy can have the same success as a 5'9" 180 guy. Not doing roids is the right way no matter what your size.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Exactly, so what is your point bringing his size into it?

His size has nothing to do with "doing things the right way". A 6'5" 230 guy can have the same success as a 5'9" 180 guy. Not doing roids is the right way no matter what your size.

 

I'm not defending steroids at all, just to make that clear. You're original argument was that Frank would be a positive influence at the Congressional hearings , which he would be because he'll speak out against them. But to the kid deciding wether or not to take roids based on who is at the hearings any positive points Frank makes is offset by the fact that is is naturally bigger then your average baseball player. The whole point of taking steroids is to get bigger and stronger , hit more home runs, drive in more runs , get a bigger paycheck. Frank is already big and strong thats why I bring up his size. Smaller success stories are not at these hearings.

[hammerhead johnson]

6'5" 230

 

Well, if Frank lost about 50 pounds, he'd weight 230, which is very close to what Barry Bonds weighs in at.

 

On Frank's Leaf rookie card, he's listed at 240 pounds. On Barry's Fleer rookie card, he's listed at 185 pounds. Both players have gained somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 40 pounds since they were rookies (Bonds from the roids and Frank from the biscuits and gravy).

[Steff]

I'm not defending steroids at all, just to make that clear. You're original argument was that Frank would be a positive influence at the Congressional hearings , which he would be because he'll speak out against them. But to the kid deciding wether or not to take roids based on who is at the hearings any positive points Frank makes is offset by the fact that is is naturally bigger then your average baseball player. The whole point of taking steroids is to get bigger and stronger , hit more home runs, drive in more runs , get a bigger paycheck.  Frank is already big and strong thats why I bring up his size. Smaller success stories are not at these hearings.

 

 

I still have no idea what the hell you are talking about or why you are responding to me.

 

Frank did things the right way.. what the hell that has to do with his size or why you seem to think I said size had anything to do with it is beyond me. Apparently you're a bit mixed up with whom you are responding to.

[Soxbadger]

Hearings

 

As I predicted in earlier threads, it is much better to appease congress than to try and outsmart or hide from them.

 

Thomas will get preferential treatment because he was willing to come, the rest will be strong armed in a manner that probably will not be fun. Its just like a summons, you can be nice about the way you summon some one, or you can be a jerk and send a sheriff or special process server to their place of work.

 

Now multiply that power by millions to get what congress can do.

 

SB

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I still have no idea what the hell you are talking about or why you are responding to me.

 

Frank did things the right way.. what the hell that has to do with his size or why you seem to think I said size had anything to do with it is beyond me. Apparently you're a bit mixed up with whom you are responding to.

 

I'm not mixed up at all. If you can't see my point I can't help that. You originally said something that I responded to which you responded too which i responded to etc. I can't help it you have over 12,00 posts and cant keep track of who you're talking to. (If i knew how to make that last sentence in green I would.) Don't get so testy. I love the Sox you love the Sox. What you say from now on will be the last word. I have reread every word in this thread and I have no intention of trying to make you understand what I am talking about. Sorry about any misunderstanding.

[Rex Kickass]

Big props to Frank for being eager to testify.

 

Finally, a player who says "test me anytime" and means it.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Based on the comments this is clearly a witch hunt. The hearings link above suggests as much. It appears some congressmen didn't even care about it until they found out that MLB & the MLBPA will fight the subpeonas. Now more of them have joined the hunt because of this.

 

I'm not sure where this leaves Thomas. I don't believe his appearance in any way violates his contract & the most MLB can do is defend a player's right not to attend. I don't think they can compel a player not to attend.

 

In that regards I can see Congress definitely flying people down to Tucson to depose Thomas. It could even be a major media event as they would likely float questions at him on his days at Auburn. You have to remember that Thomas' represents the poster child for their witch hunt. Much more so than Schilling because he's just a pitcher.

 

Now this really does draw relation to the HOF thread because what happens if congressman start mentioning Thomas in conjunction with the HOF? We already see the SOX as an organization doing this & we even hear some local Chicago personalities do it. So if congressman start doing it then he might not just be a first ballot HOFer but also a celebrated one.

 

Types of questions to ask Thomas:

Did you ever use questionable or illegal performance enhancers during you carreer with the White Sox?

Did you ever see or hear about someone doing this as a member of the White Sox?

Did you ever use "" during your years at Auburn?

Did you ever see or hear about someone doing this as a student of Auburn?

Did you ever use "" in high school?

Did you ever see or hear about someone doing this in high school?

 

That will cover Thomas directly.

 

Then they will branch out.

How long have you known Jose Canseco?

Did he ever confide in you about his usage?

Did he ever confide in you about someone else's usage?

Did you have any reason not to believe what Jose Canseco told you?

 

Then they'll go general.

Do you feel MLB's current policy is tough enough?

How important do you feel it is for the league to weed out performance enhancements to the integrity of the game?

If you were Commisioner what would you do to insure the integrity of the game?

 

Then they'll hit him with the 64K question:

Do you feel that MLB & the MLBPA are capable of making sure that players comply with the laws of the nation with regards to these substances?

 

Thomas already hinted it could get ugly & when you consider these types of questions you can see why MLB & the MLBPA are fighting the subpeonas.

[YASNY]

They are fighting the subpeonas because they don't want their dirty laundry aired publically. They are hoping the whole mess just goes away. It ain't happenin' though.

[Soxbadger]

If by get ugly you mean that it will become clearer that the MLBPA knew about a steriod problem and purposefully tried to prevent a better steriod policy from being implemented, then yes I do think this will get ugly.

 

This is not about catching a player, this is about trying to eradicate steriods from sports in general. That is why they are trying to get all the leagues to test the same way.

 

SB

[SoxFan562004]

They are fighting the subpeonas because they don't want their dirty laundry aired publically.  They are hoping the whole mess just goes away.  It ain't happenin' though.

they're also fighting the subpoenas because Congress has also subpoenaed MLB's records for like the last 20 years or so. I haven't seen the actual subpoena, so I'm not 100% what records they actually requested, but I heard they want the results of all the drug testing from the last few years.

[southsider2k5]

See what happens when you are the only professional sport that refuses to attack the drug problem? The MLBPA in their greed to get something in exchange for drug testing really screwed up on this one. It is only going to get worse.