TheBigHurt35 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 12:05 AM) If it was an accident, what difference does it make what political views the journalist who is living or the DEAD Special Ops Agent have? It wouldn't, but they're claiming that it WASN'T an accident. That's where the problem lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(TheBigHurt35 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 12:07 AM) It wouldn't, but they're claiming that it WASN'T an accident. That's where the problem lies. Ding. Ding. Ding. That "b****" is trying to make it sound like a hit. Of course, if it was, she wouldn't be saying anything right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 09:48 PM) Ding. Ding. Ding. That "b****" is trying to make it sound like a hit. Of course, if it was, she wouldn't be saying anything right now. No offense YAS, but I don't really think it's fair to entitle her as that, even if you don't agree with she's saying, after what she went through in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 05:49 AM) No offense YAS, but I don't really think it's fair to entitle her as that, even if you don't agree with she's saying, after what she went through in the first place. No offense taken, DBAH0. However, if the shoe fits ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(TheBigHurt35 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 12:07 AM) It wouldn't, but they're claiming that it WASN'T an accident. That's where the problem lies. Let me see if I understand this She's a commie b****, so it couldn't be a hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 07:20 AM) Let me see if I understand this She's a commie b****, so it couldn't be a hit? She survived, so it couldn't be a hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 07:23 AM) She survived, so it couldn't be a hit. One person is dead, maybe he was the commie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 03:25 AM) So according to Italian secret service agents, the US cut off the cell phones & that Italian soldiers were waiting at the airport as well. It seems that the testimonials of the Italian secret service agents at the scene are in direct conflict with the Pentagon story. And excuse me if I am skeptical of a Pentagon that earlier in this war tried to give us the heroic tale of Jessica Lynch -- and their story flew in the face of what actually happened. Now Italian Secret Service agents are backing the story produced by the journalist, so it kind of puts a damper on the "commie b****" theory regarding this case. Cuz Burlusconi can be called a lot of things but definitely not a Communist. Have any Italian SS agents actually spoken themselves, or is this hearsay all we have? B/c Scolari was not there, he has no credibility. And he's got more than one motive to exaggerate. We should have an investigation, obviously. But unless you can suggest a plausible motive, and reconcile all these odd coincidences in Sgrena's story, I'm inclined to believe the US military for now. Approaching cars must be a fairly common situation, they should have the drill pretty much down by now. So I'm sceptical that the soldiers were merely incompetant, although that's possible. As for the US trying (and failing) to assasinate her, c'mon, you don't actually believe that, do you? Besides the fact that no army unit would be unable to accomplish that, could the US possibly gain anything from this? Just b/c she's vain enough to believe the US would want HER dead, doesn't mean anyone should believe her. Not that I don't agree that the "commie"/"b****" comments are unhelpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The thing that really pisses me off is our soldiers wouldn't bat an eye to risking their life to save this lady. If we got information that she was held up in a house our guys would go in there in a heartbeat and risk their lives to save her. No questions asked...They would die, without hesitation in trying to rescue her. I mean give me a f***in break lady...you want to make baseless accusations...here's mine You sped through the checkpoint due to your disgust for the war. You weren't going to stop for any American checkpoint...they shouldn't be there in the first place....so f*** em. You were just released from being held captive, and you weren't going to be detained any longer in this country than you had to be. Where's my facts for making this statement?? I have none....where's yours b****??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 08:09 AM) The thing that really pisses me off is our soldiers wouldn't bat an eye to risking their life to save this lady. If we got information that she was held up in a house our guys would go in there in a heartbeat and risk their lives to save her. No questions asked...They would die, without hesitation in trying to rescue her. I mean give me a f***in break lady...you want to make baseless accusations...here's mine You sped through the checkpoint due to your disgust for the war. You weren't going to stop for any American checkpoint...they shouldn't be there in the first place....so f*** em. You were just released from being held captive, and you weren't going to be detained any longer in this country than you had to be. Where's my facts for making this statement?? I have none....where's yours b****??? I thought it was already proven it was *not* a checkpoint but a patrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks for focusing on the most meaningless part of the post and actually making a post regarding it. Let me clear it up for you... "You sped through a patrol due to your disgust for the war. You weren't going to stop for any American checkpoint...they shouldn't be there in the first place....so f*** em. You were just released from being held captive, and you weren't going to be detained any longer in this country than you had to be." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Considering how the troops are very concerned with terriosts/ suicide bombers and all. They see a speeding vehicle coming towards them and it doesn't seem like its willing to stop what should they do? Let it come close and possibly kill more troops or others?? I say shoot 1st then ask questions. It was completely stupid to not stop for the troops. Of course unless you believe this reporters side and they were only driving 20 MPH or some other BS like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 09:02 AM) Considering how the troops are very concerned with terriosts/ suicide bombers and all. They see a speeding vehicle coming towards them and it doesn't seem like its willing to stop what should they do? Let it come close and possibly kill more troops or others?? I say shoot 1st then ask questions. It was completely stupid to not stop for the troops. Of course unless you believe this reporters side and they were only driving 20 MPH or some other BS like that. And in the back of every troops mind is becoming a statistic added to the 1500 there already are. Unless I see something concrete from a reputable source, and not just conjecture and opinion, I am going to side with our boys everytime. I can't imagine the stress of viewing nearly every single person as a potential bomb, every vehicle as potential death on wheels. Yet they are supposed to know in that one instant who is friendly and who is trying to kill them. It doesn't work both ways. Either Americans are going to die, or innocents are going to die trying as Americans try to protect themselves. It isn't a black or white situation, there is going to be a margin of error. The problem is that the margin of error in war is people's lives. Put me in the same situations and I am sure as hell shooting to kill, and not waiting for the car to explode, or for people with AK47's to jump out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 It seems that the people here that are getting so mad about this situation which doesn't affect them at all, only seem to be getting mad because it hurts their argument. So let's calm down a bit and look at the facts of the situation. An italian journalist was shot and she wasn't supposed to be shot by American forces. We can all pretty much agree on that. Whether she is/was a communist b**** or not is neither here nor there. She was in a convoy taking her to the airport to go home. After just being freed from captivity, something tells me that she didn't have the ultimate say on the speed or action of the convoy whisking her off to the airport. So my guess is, she didn't make the decision to speed through the checkpoint or open road, whichever. Italy says that the United States command was notified. It probably was, but there are a lot of people to notify and some people probably didn't get the notice. Italy has a right to demand and receive a full investigation into the shooting of their convoy given that they are a. fighting alongside the Americans in Iraq, b. involved in a military accident that involved a member of their security team mistakenly killed and c. was involved in something that can legitimately be referred to as an "international incident." The truth in these stories lies probably somewhere between the US version and Italy's version. And yes, it makes the US look bad. Not because it was an accident involving a checkpoint as much as it was shooting at a recently freed hostage being evacuated from a country that they have "secured." OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hostage car not speeding: Italy's foreign minister Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini told Italy's parliament that the car carrying Nicola Calipari and ex-hostage Giuliana Sgrena was travelling at about 40 km/h. Fini said no one warned the car to stop but he also ruled out any suggestions the shootings were an ambush. He called them an accident. "This does not prevent, in fact it makes it a duty for the government to demand that light be shed on the murky issues, that responsibilities be pinpointed, and, where found, that the culprits be punished," said Fini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Iraq Islamic Army: We Refused Ransom for Italian Journalist In the videocassette containing the image of Sgrena and the hostage takers that was broadcast earlier today, the two gunmen standing behind Sgrena read out the following statement: "After some research, we have decided to release her without accepting any of the ransom money that was offered. This is not one of the principles of the resistance." In other words the terrorists realized that this woman hated the US even more than they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Wouldn't it kind of stand to reason that since she hates America more than the terrorists that she would have no problem lying about certain facts to make the US look bad?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 10:03 AM) Wouldn't it kind of stand to reason that since she hates America more than the terrorists that she would have no problem lying about certain facts to make the US look bad?? sure would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 09:58 AM) Iraq Islamic Army: We Refused Ransom for Italian Journalist In other words the terrorists realized that this woman hated the US even more than they did. So that blows the whole "the US tried to kill her because of the ransom" theory out of the water.... If this is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt35 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 10:03 AM) Wouldn't it kind of stand to reason that since she hates America more than the terrorists that she would have no problem lying about certain facts to make the US look bad?? Or that the terrorist would lie about releasing her without accepting any money from the Italian government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(TheBigHurt35 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 10:12 AM) Or that the terrorist would lie about releasing her without accepting any money from the Italian government? Exactly... now this week on conspiracy theories... Soxtalk chatters!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 08:57 AM) Thanks for focusing on the most meaningless part of the post and actually making a post regarding it. Let me clear it up for you... "You sped through a patrol due to your disgust for the war. You weren't going to stop for any American checkpoint...they shouldn't be there in the first place....so f*** em. You were just released from being held captive, and you weren't going to be detained any longer in this country than you had to be." There is a difference between a checkpoint and a Patrol. Checkpoints have barracaids, signs, and other attention getting devices. Patrols do not. Look at any of the pictures of checkpoints and you will see why this is not a meaningless distinction. It's the difference between a toll booth and a cop waving on the side of the road. A special agent received the death penalty for speeding. Which may have been appropriate, but we won't know until an investigation QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 10:03 AM) Wouldn't it kind of stand to reason that since she hates America more than the terrorists that she would have no problem lying about certain facts to make the US look bad?? Wouldn't it kind of stand to reason that since he loves America more than the terrorists, that he would have no problem lying about certain facts to make the US look good?? It cuts both ways, which is why an investigation needs to occur. This is an ally, one of the few Coalition of the Willing that offered more than a pat on the back. The US has made plenty of mistakes. Some are justified, possibly some are not. I believe we get better by questioning and challenging and training and learning. To just accept whatever Americans do and not take any responsibility as an American doesn't make us better. Lick once from the lollipop of mediocrity and you will suck forever. IMHO I would rather have America accept we are not always perfect and fix the problem then blindly accept whatever version of a story makes us look perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Since she is a "b****" does that make the dead man an asshole or a bastard or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(Queen Prawn @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 11:28 AM) Since she is a "b****" does that make the dead man an asshole or a bastard or both? I will take my one way ticket to hell now but I would call the guy dead. Don't get me wrong here its a complete terrible incident and you can be sure we will probably never find out the complete truth about any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 11:33 AM) I will take my one way ticket to hell now but I would call the guy dead. Don't get me wrong here its a complete terrible incident and you can be sure we will probably never find out the complete truth about any of it. I think Queen was more commenting on the difference between how the former hostage was being named and her male counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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