Rex Hudler Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) I kept hearing the formula of the RPI had been changed this year so I did a search and found this article. IT is very informative and interesting. Perhaps this explains why the RPI hasn't had the Illini #1 this year...... Keep an eye on RPI - new vs. old formulas Here is a table within the article that shows the effects of the change...... Mid Majors Team New RPI Old RPI Change Vermont 23 42 +19 Miami (OH) 27 52 +25 Old Dominion 35 60 +25 Holy Cross 37 61 +24 Akron 38 71 +33 UALR 42 75 +33 Major Conference Bubble Teams Team New RPI Old RPI Change NC State 93 67 -26 Arkansas 84 63 -21 Iowa St. 79 58 -21 Vanderbilt 75 48 -27 Indiana 68 41 -27 Pittsburgh 46 29 -17 Edited March 8, 2005 by Rex Hudler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Isn't it basically 1.4 for a road win and .6 for a home win since majors don't like to go on the road against competitive mid-majors? I obviously didn't read the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 06:09 PM) Isn't it basically 1.4 for a road win and .6 for a home win since majors don't like to go on the road against competitive mid-majors? I obviously didn't read the article. Read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Illinois would still not be #1 in the old system either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 QUOTE(Hall of Famer @ Mar 8, 2005 -> 09:54 PM) Illinois would still not be #1 in the old system either. Hence the reason I said "perhaps" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 The more i hear about the new RPI, the more i think of the BCS. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotop Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 (edited) New RPI...old RPI, either way tinkering with it every year makes it a friggin' sham. I cannot say, with a straight face, that Vermont, ODU, and Miami (OH) are all top 40 teams. Yes, I understand big schools don't want to play those schools because they have nothing to gain and all to lose. To be frank, tough s***. If you want national attention as a mid-major beat the tar out of other mid-majors year in and year out. Hopefully you'll get some notice by a) the media (see: gonzaga) B: conferences (see: those who are moving from c-usa to the BE and random conferences to c-usa, etc) and then you won't be on the outside looking in. Programs are built over YEARS, you have to pay your dues instead of crying every year about how you get the short end of the stick. The last time a non-BCS school won a NC is UNLV...and they were crooked as hell. No matter what the numbers say, I would defer to the big conference team every time; it makes for better games even though the "storylines" of the NCAA tourney suffer. I mean for every "screwed" bubble mid-major, there's a mid-major that makes the tourney with 12 wins because they won their crappy conference tourney (see: Oakland). Essentially, it balances out; so by tweaking the RPI to favor the little schools is B.S. Thank God the committee doesn't strictly use RPI to determine the tournament, because we would all be able to write in UNC and Illinois in the final. I can't wait for deserving major conference teams to get in over these inflated RPI pushovers, because they'll be getting the 8/9 seeds that will make for great 2nd Round games. Just think, would you rather have Georgia Tech playing Illinois in the 2nd round or Vermont (from a good game perspective, I know the answer from you Illinois fans )? My main point is automatic bids are for the mid-majors. Very rarely should they be at large bids, and most of the time those in the know are able to determine this fairly easy. If the NCAA continues to tweak its math in their favor RPI will become even more of a joke, much like the BCS as mentioned in this thread. And we all know we don't want to go down that road... Ok this post is all over the place, but as you can tell I hate the new RPI. Edited March 9, 2005 by Fotop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I'm glad to hear that the new RPI isn't a strong factor this year, and that the committee will be bringing the old RPI numbers to the meeting this year. I couldn't agree more with your post. There are just too many damn small conferences, with too many s***ty teams getting in because of it (my definition of s***ty is that those teams are getting in over bubble teams that are better than them). Because of the automatic bids, there are so few bubble spots left, and those need to go to bcs conference teams. Sure, storylines are nice...but in reality we should just want to see the best 64 teams, regardless of conference, battle it out to see who's #1. The only reason any of these smaller conference teams get any pub is because they are possible cinderellas year in and year out - which doesn't even mean final fours, it means 2 victories at best, usually. Big friggin deal. Like Fotop says, prove yourself for a few years, then come talk to the big boys about getting into the tournament without automatic bids because of who you've played out of conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I think you guys have it wrong. Teams like Gonzaga and Southern Illinois are gaining BECAUSE of how the system is now. Gonzaga and SIU probably would not have been a top 60 team on their own back in the day...It is allowing conference champs from smaller conferences to play with the "big boys", ultimately beat them, and gain national exposure that is helping them to grow. And those moving to the Big East are big-time programs on their own. See: DePaul throughout the 80's. That oakland 3-pointer was sweet. Being clutch is what the Tournament is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 (edited) I also disagree with you guys. I'd much rather see an upstart team from a solid conference like the MVC get their shot in the tournament than see a underacheiving, middle of the road team from one of the big conferences. Those teams had their chances to win more games as well. All that said, I hope there are not too many upsets this year, because selfishly I want to see IU get in. But if a deserving mid-major got a bid instead, so be it. That is what makes this tournament so great. It is what used to make the Indiana HS basketball state tournament so great. It allows the David's to get a shot at the Goliaths. If the big schools want a bid, then they should earn it by finishing .500 or better in their league. Lastly, I think you will see this new RPI formula tweaked again, but I don't think RPI plays as big a role with the tournament committee as the media plays it out to be. It is just one thing they look at and rarely the deciding factor. Edited March 9, 2005 by Rex Hudler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotop Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Let me expound a bit.... If a big conference team is not .500 in their conference I feel as though they probably shouldn't be in unless there are some real extenouating circumstances. I agree with you on this Rex, but take ND for example this year (9-7 BE, 70something RPI) they played UCONN, Pitt, Syracuse, Villanova, G-town all TWICE this year in conference play as well as BC once. They finished with an above .500 record even with that brutal conf. schedule yet we're going to sweat it out come sunday. Why? friggin' RPI and a non-bloated record (17-10). These are the types of teams that should be in, even though I may be biased...but of those 10 losses they've come at the hands of: Syr x2, Pitt x2, Uconn, Gtown, Villanova, Depaul, Michigan (only bad loss, but a road loss), Ucla. As for Sleepywhitesox's post, my point was that teams like Gonzaga and SIU are gaining NOW because of the inherent advantages in the system. However, Gonzaga has been going at it for god knows how long before any of this was in place. They're the prime example of building a solid program in a mid-major conference and then causing some noise in the tourney...then after a few years of riding their auto-bid, they earned the respect of possibly receiving an at-large. SIU is the same as well, they won the MVC a few years ago (auto-bid), made it to the sweet sixteen and now are gaining the respect their program (which has been built up) deserves. Point being, programs need to be built from the ground up...all schools have experienced this. As a mid-major you can't expect everything to be handed to you just because you're the "little guy". Don't get me wrong, I love the whole David v. Goliath thing in the NCAA tourney. Bryce Drew hitting a last second three or Kent state making a deep run give the tournament some great history. It's just that auto-bids are good enough to achieve this. We don't need whacked out RPIs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 QUOTE(Fotop @ Mar 9, 2005 -> 06:57 PM) Let me expound a bit.... If a big conference team is not .500 in their conference I feel as though they probably shouldn't be in unless there are some real extenouating circumstances. I agree with you on this Rex, but take ND for example this year (9-7 BE, 70something RPI) they played UCONN, Pitt, Syracuse, Villanova, G-town all TWICE this year in conference play as well as BC once. They finished with an above .500 record even with that brutal conf. schedule yet we're going to sweat it out come sunday. Why? friggin' RPI and a non-bloated record (17-10). These are the types of teams that should be in, even though I may be biased...but of those 10 losses they've come at the hands of: Syr x2, Pitt x2, Uconn, Gtown, Villanova, Depaul, Michigan (only bad loss, but a road loss), Ucla. As for Sleepywhitesox's post, my point was that teams like Gonzaga and SIU are gaining NOW because of the inherent advantages in the system. However, Gonzaga has been going at it for god knows how long before any of this was in place. They're the prime example of building a solid program in a mid-major conference and then causing some noise in the tourney...then after a few years of riding their auto-bid, they earned the respect of possibly receiving an at-large. SIU is the same as well, they won the MVC a few years ago (auto-bid), made it to the sweet sixteen and now are gaining the respect their program (which has been built up) deserves. Point being, programs need to be built from the ground up...all schools have experienced this. As a mid-major you can't expect everything to be handed to you just because you're the "little guy". Don't get me wrong, I love the whole David v. Goliath thing in the NCAA tourney. Bryce Drew hitting a last second three or Kent state making a deep run give the tournament some great history. It's just that auto-bids are good enough to achieve this. We don't need whacked out RPIs as well. I think you are worried about nothing. Unless Notre Dame just flops in the Big East Tourney and gets blown out, I have no doubt they are in. They are on the bubble, yet about as close as you can to being in at this point without being a lock. I don't think you will see the Holy Crosses of the world take a spot away from the Irish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 QUOTE(Fotop @ Mar 9, 2005 -> 01:57 PM) Let me expound a bit.... If a big conference team is not .500 in their conference I feel as though they probably shouldn't be in unless there are some real extenouating circumstances. I agree with you on this Rex, but take ND for example this year (9-7 BE, 70something RPI) they played UCONN, Pitt, Syracuse, Villanova, G-town all TWICE this year in conference play as well as BC once. They finished with an above .500 record even with that brutal conf. schedule yet we're going to sweat it out come sunday. Why? friggin' RPI and a non-bloated record (17-10). These are the types of teams that should be in, even though I may be biased...but of those 10 losses they've come at the hands of: Syr x2, Pitt x2, Uconn, Gtown, Villanova, Depaul, Michigan (only bad loss, but a road loss), Ucla. As for Sleepywhitesox's post, my point was that teams like Gonzaga and SIU are gaining NOW because of the inherent advantages in the system. However, Gonzaga has been going at it for god knows how long before any of this was in place. They're the prime example of building a solid program in a mid-major conference and then causing some noise in the tourney...then after a few years of riding their auto-bid, they earned the respect of possibly receiving an at-large. SIU is the same as well, they won the MVC a few years ago (auto-bid), made it to the sweet sixteen and now are gaining the respect their program (which has been built up) deserves. Point being, programs need to be built from the ground up...all schools have experienced this. As a mid-major you can't expect everything to be handed to you just because you're the "little guy". Don't get me wrong, I love the whole David v. Goliath thing in the NCAA tourney. Bryce Drew hitting a last second three or Kent state making a deep run give the tournament some great history. It's just that auto-bids are good enough to achieve this. We don't need whacked out RPIs as well. Yeah, that DePaul win was sweet... I see your point, but that's the way it always has been. Power conference teams HAVE gotten the benefit of the doubt. We wouldn't be talking about more mid-majors getting in if there were so few quality big conference teams taking care of business this year, and we still don't know if there will be many mid-majors getting in. We're basically just assuming they will because of the RPI, which obviously has its problems. Look at it this way: In the same way that mid-majors should earn their ticket by paying their due, major conference teams should earn their ticket by not leaving any doubt and taking care of business with the schedule that they have. You can't fault mid-majors for winning games with the schedules they have either. It's as simple as this; take care of business and you're in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 Well fotop your boys did not help themselves at all last night. Everyone now seems to think the Irish are out, but I am not so sure. The thing that will really hurt them is that they have lost 4 out of their last 5. If it comes down to splitting hairs, that will hurt them. But overall, I like their resume. Other than last night they only have one bad loss and that was to Michigan in the first few games of the season, when Michigan still had Horton and hadn't gone into their freefall yet. They have quality wins over UConn, Villanova and BC. They also had wins over West Virginia who will likely be in and Indiana (@ Indiana), another bubble team. If they don't get in, it will be because of the way they ended the season and it will be because they are splitting hairs with another team or two. I think they have a better resume than a lot of other bubble teams I have looked at, even after last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssHatSoxFan Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 the biggest thing which might have already been said is winning the games you should...ND did not do that last night and I think thats what will hurt them the most but they do have a list of good wins so they should be in probably a 8-10 seed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I hope ND gets in if we don't. There's been a team from the state like every year since 1970 IIRC, and that's in major jeopardy this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 There's always Purdue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Mar 10, 2005 -> 10:45 AM) I hope ND gets in if we don't. There's been a team from the state like every year since 1970 IIRC, and that's in major jeopardy this year. Looks like west virginia takes their place with this win over bc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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