Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Good grief people.. agree to disagree and let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:04 PM) ptatc - My friend did a small cycle and gained 17 lbs, and went from benching 225 9 times to benching 225 15 times Thats not a bad increase for one cycle. That won't last long however and to keep it up he'll need to continue the cycles. See how long the increse lasts without continuing the cycles. This is where the health problems will arise, the continued use. It's the true conundrum of steriod use. The gains don't continue without the continued cycles and the problem and side effects increase with increased cycles. The psychological effects are inherent also. Your buddy may say "this little cycle helped me this much, it won't hurt if I do a little more and a little more won't hurt me much." As I stated before I've seen too many professional and college athletes fall into this and would strongly suggest that you or your buddy shouild stop this. However as I tell all of them I can give advice but you are your own man for better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:04 PM) Juggernaut - I am educated in it, I dont need to check out google.. Ive seen it in real life experiances and I know about it. You get all your s*** from google. Finding something scanning it then saying you know it doesnt mean you know it.. I've seen it too...I've seen friends take "low doses" of drugs and think they had it under control. I've seen them die from it too I have real life experiences with friends using steriods to get that slight advantage. I've seen the damage it does. If you think you're being smart...you're not. If you think you're friends are young and invincible...they're not. If you think your few "real life experiences" with people who have been using steroids on a SHORT TERM basis is worth more than hundreds of educated Doctors and Reserchers who have been studying the effects for years...you're wrong...and you're friends are killing thyemselves. And that's the truth...no matter what you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 18, 2005 -> 03:09 AM) haha, its not crap.. its the truth All you know is what you have been told.. and thats what life isnt like If you have never used them you dont know what your talking about, all your doing is recycling the same old s*** from what you have HEARD about them.. so please, spare me your repetative bulls*** You have a right to your opinion, but do you really expect me to believe you when you say that all doctors and medical evidence are total crap? Maybe the mumps are great too, I've never had 'em, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:12 PM) I've never taking opium either but there is a mountain of information that tells me it's pretty bad for me & the risk of addiction is very high. Of course the fact that I can describe it's chemical breakdown & most aspects of its impact on the human body, it's history, & it's current growth span today I guess is meaningless because I've never tried it :rolly You are taking yourself seriously so I'll just ask some questions to maybe get you to pause & think differently. Why would my personal experience with say smoking weed have greater value than clincal research covering say 10's of 1000's of persons smoking weed? In the same likeness why would your personal experience with performance enhancers have greater value than 10's of 1000's of others accounts. The best knowledge is collective knowledge because it filters out biased opinion. That's why the internet is the best tool mankind has ever invented. I dont Smoke Weed or take Opium so I wouldnt be able to tell you about all that, and of course its ETCHED into everyones heads that its bad for you from the media.. a lot of things are.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:15 PM) You have a right to your opinion, but do you really expect me to believe you when you say that all doctors and medical evidence are total crap? Maybe the mumps are great too, I've never had 'em, after all. Nah im not trying to say all doctors are wrong what im saying is they are talking bout straight ABUSE of steroids which is making it seem like its poison, but thats not the case.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:14 PM) Good grief people.. agree to disagree and let it go. On subjects like this...I cannot agree to disagree. But I will stop responding to him on this subject, because it has no effect. I'm cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:17 PM) On subjects like this...I cannot agree to disagree. But I will stop responding to him on this subject, because it has no effect. I'm cool. Good decision.. because nothing your gonna say is going to change my mind about steroids.. Especially after life experiances with them, I can tell you that they are put way out of context then they really are.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Any of you folks that weren't here earlier today and didn't yet comment.. care to comment on Jose's testimony today..? Anyone's opinion change about him? Think his motives are sincere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 800 posts in this thread. Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 18, 2005 -> 03:17 AM) Nah im not trying to say all doctors are wrong what im saying is they are talking bout straight ABUSE of steroids which is making it seem like its poison, but thats not the case.. But you're saying that all medical studies about steroids are utterly useless. So why aren't all medical studies utterly useless, since they use similar methods? Btw, since no reputable doctor would prescribe steroids for a healthy athlete, technically ANY such use constitutes abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I'm getting pulled into a never-ending discussion on the dangers of roid usage with someone who believes that their personal experience is the only source of knowledge they need on anything in life. :rolly It's time for me to exit this thread. I just wanted to say one more thing with respect to Fehr. He doesn't really represent the players but rather their agents. That's why the MLBPA is such a powerful union. All of the players today are represented by the very best minds the legal sports agent world has to offer. You have to sell the zero-tolerance policy to them. That's a very tough sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) But you're saying that all medical studies about steroids are utterly useless. So why aren't all medical studies utterly useless, since they use similar methods? Btw, since no reputable doctor would prescribe steroids for a healthy athlete, technically ANY such use constitutes abuse. Most medical studies are about effects of steroid abuse, the effects of taking them long and hard and over doing it.. People who are addicted to steroids like that will hurt themselves and others.. Thats what I was saying along the lines of abuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) I'm getting pulled into a never-ending discussion on the dangers of roid usage with someone who believes that their personal experience is the only source of knowledge they need on anything in life. :rolly It's time for me to exit this thread. I just wanted to say one more thing with respect to Fehr. He doesn't really represent the players but rather their agents. That's why the MLBPA is such a powerful union. All of the players today are represented by the very best minds the legal sports agent world has to offer. You have to sell the zero-tolerance policy to them. That's a very tough sale. I guess your right... real life experiance is trumped by google... my bad for being wrong I would love to stay and finish this up but I have to go to Jillians because damn Texas Tech is on down here and I want to watch Illinois.. goodnight soxtalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) But you're saying that all medical studies about steroids are utterly useless. So why aren't all medical studies utterly useless, since they use similar methods? Btw, since no reputable doctor would prescribe steroids for a healthy athlete, technically ANY such use constitutes abuse. The problem is that there are no real clinical studies showing the effects of steriods on humans. No researcher can ethically or legally give someone a substance to see if it hurts them. All the research has been done on animals. We can infer what hapeened to the animals may happen in humans and we are probably right. This however just gives more ammunition to the opposing opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I didn't get to hear all of Mark's comments earlier, but I just heard Cummings (rep from Maryland) ask him to comment on whether he used performance enhansing drugs.. he refused to answer. Then went on to say that he would be an "excellent" spokesperson to speak out against usage of those drugs... Apparently he's moved on from Andro to crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 18, 2005 -> 02:20 PM) I'm getting pulled into a never-ending discussion on the dangers of roid usage with someone who believes that their personal experience is the only source of knowledge they need on anything in life. :rolly It's time for me to exit this thread. Never thought I'd see that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:19 PM) Any of you folks that weren't here earlier today and didn't yet comment.. care to comment on Jose's testimony today..? Anyone's opinion change about him? Think his motives are sincere? I still believe his only motive is money. He admits he could write this book because he has no friends in baseball so it didn't matter. Side note: I saw him at an ST game one year when he was playing for Texas. He was giving autographs to kids. He was giving them two each saying" keep one for yourself and see that guy over there he'll buy the other one for 50 bucks. Take and go buy lunch for your family." He sat there for an hour after the game for the kids. In my dealings with hime he wasn't a bad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 This is Steff's thread, I'm doing what her sig is doing. Over 200 posts on this thread, and is very knowledgable on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) This is Steff's thread, I'm doing what her sig is doing. Over 200 posts on this thread, and is very knowledgable on this subject. Thanks WT. Unfortunately I know a lot about it from seeing the damage first hand. Sad.. I wish it was zero tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I would say about Jose is I am sure some of the stuff he wrote about is based on truth but mostly it is more than likely embellished quite a bit. It almost has to be just to be an interesting read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 When Mark is asked what his message would be be he replies "that roids are bad" he is them asked how he knows they are bad... has he seen the effects of them...? And he responds "I have been advised from my attny not to answer that" All the while Roger Kossak, ESPN legal analyst, is behind him trying so hard not to laugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:36 PM) Thanks WT. Unfortunately I know a lot about it from seeing the damage first hand. Sad.. I wish it was zero tolerance. I agree also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 (edited) All the while Roger Kossak, ESPN legal analyst, is behind him trying so hard not to laugh... Was that the guy over McGwire's left shoulder? I was noticing that for most of the testimony. Edited March 18, 2005 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 09:46 PM) Was that the guy over McGwire's left shoulder? I was noticing that for most of the testimony. He's the tan guy with glasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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