Congressional hearing thread

[ottawa_sox]

I had businesss to attend to last night and was not able to watch any of the proceedings. I would like to thank all the participents for the updates and the creation of a fascinating thread.

[Be Good]

After hearing Frank and the comitte praising him and Schilling it feels good to be a fan of him again.

[Controlled Chaos]

A few comments...

 

First if I may say, I havent been so engaged in something on tv since the OJ Simpson trial. Let's hope for a better outcome here.

 

On Canseco...

I thought he came off as the classiest one there. If anyone should be heading an anti steroid task force it should be him. He has admitted to abusing steroids and can relay the horrible effects they have IF that is they dont just kill you outright. I mean if you want to teach kids about drugs, you get a recovered drug addict. If you want to teach them about alcohol abuse, you get a recovered alcoholic. You need someone who has actually been to the other side, not someone who is in denial about ever being there.

 

On Congress...

Man we have some characters in that bunch. I do however think they made some very good points. I definitely think there is something sketchy with the extra wording in that contract, as well as the leagues excuse of it just being a "draft". I just can't figure out why the league would do it...I can see the players association wanting that, but why the league??

Another excellent point by congress was the gambling issue. Man that hit the nail right on the head.(why didn't I ever think of that argument) Why can gambling be a one strike and your out policy and not steroids. Why is it ok to f*** up 5 times with steroids and only once with gambling. Are roids not as serious as gambling?? Id say death is just as important as the integrity of baseball and if we're talking about integrity...well cheating isn't exactly honorable. I can see leaving this 5 strike policy intact for this year, but what is wrong with saying next year...you get busted you're out. Every player knows the gambling rules...and guess what???...no gambling... Let's get everyone on the same page with steroids and guess what???....There will be no more steroids.

Congress took a no s*** attitude and I loved it. My only knock is I think they weren't as hard as they should have been on Fehr. Some of those congress people repeated the same s*** cause I think they just like to hear themselves talk and wanted to stick their 2 cents in, but overall I think they did a credible job and as much as I wanted it to be....it wasn't a witch hunt.

 

On Sosa...

(Just like him me saying nothing says a lot...)

 

On Fib Mac...

You came off as the biggest loser here. Admit what you've done...then help people. You're sincerity goes no where without an admission.

 

 

I wish they would grant these people immunity. I want the truth. I don't want to see them in prison for using steroids...but I want them out of the record books or at the very least a * next to their records. I wish when they were questioning Selig about removing cheaters from the books they would have mentioned the Frank MVP example. It has been proven Giambi used that year...you want facts without investigating Bud, there you go. Its straight from the horses mouth...Giambi used roids the year he won he said so. Let's start there!!!!!!!

[southsider2k5]

Real quick note... all of the BMI stuff has been separated out and is now on the SLaP board.

[YASNY]

Chaos. I agree with all of your post with the exception of Canseco being the guy to head a task force. In his book, he basically endorsed steroid use. He changed his tune yesterday after hearing those parents say their piece, but I can't accept that at face value as a change of heart. At least, not enough to have him be the leading spokesman for an anti-steroid task force.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Chaos.  I agree with all of your post with the exception of Canseco being the guy to head a task force.  In his book, he basically endorsed steroid use.  He changed his tune yesterday after hearing those parents say their piece, but I can't accept that at face value as a change of heart.  At least, not enough to have him be the leading spokesman for an anti-steroid task force.

Actually I think he said he wrote the book 2 years ago and over that period of time, he has changed his mind about a lot of things.

[southsider2k5]

Real quick note... all of the BMI stuff has been separated out and is now on the SLaP board.

 

 

Link for the searching impared

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31051&st=0

[YASNY]

Actually I think he said he wrote the book 2 years ago and over that period of time, he has changed his mind about a lot of things.

 

Maybe. He is still on record as endorsing steroid use.

[Controlled Chaos]

Chaos.  I agree with all of your post with the exception of Canseco being the guy to head a task force.  In his book, he basically endorsed steroid use.  He changed his tune yesterday after hearing those parents say their piece, but I can't accept that at face value as a change of heart.  At least, not enough to have him be the leading spokesman for an anti-steroid task force.

 

Yeah Yas..I hadn't read the book, so I was just going by what I heard yesterday.,..and when they questioned him on his book stating that steroids will be a thing of the future...he responded by saying that he was writing about what it will be if they didn't do anything to stop it. I wasn't aware he was endorsing...

Edited March 18, 2005 by Controlled Chaos

[LosMediasBlancas]

Maybe.  He is still on record as endorsing steroid use.

 

I understand and I have not read the book either. From what I've heard though, he endorsed the use of roids, only if it's supervised by a Dr. To me, that seems like a big difference than just saying he pro roids.

[YASNY]

I understand and I have not read the book either. From what I've heard though, he endorsed the use of roids, only if it's supervised by a Dr. To me, that seems like a big difference than just saying he pro roids.

 

Even with that qualification, I cannot see having Jose Canseco heading up an anti steroid program of any kind.

[Yossarian]

Canseco was the least hesitant of the players in answering, nonethless he came off looking like a major phony to me. He did endorse steroids big time. As a matter of fact he stated that steroids were passe and old fashioned. Designer drugs tailored to the individual were the wave of the future. Sadly, he may be right. Sports as we've known it may be on the cusp of extinction.

Edited March 18, 2005 by Yossarian

[YASNY]

Canseco was the least hesitant of the players in answering, nonethless he came off looking like a major phony to me. He did endorse steroids big time. As a matter of fact he stated that steroids were passe and old fashioned. Designer drugs tailored to the individual were the wave of the future. Sadly, he may be right. Sports as we've known it may be on the cusp of extinction.

 

 

He's not the man to be the face of an anti-steroid task force.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I look at Canseco a little differently than maybe some of you. It doesn't matter to me what he thought in 2002. His book brought the matter to the mainstream media's attention & that brought it to Congress' attention.

Before his book the anti-doping institute could barely get someone to answer a phone call on this comm.

 

For that alone Canseco deserves some honorable recognition. Going forward it's all about who has the most to lose. Since he's presently on probation in the state of FL that's definitely Canseco. He probably needs to do more good works in this issue than any one else.

 

Next would have to be Mac. He's still a HOF candidate & he needs to do as much as he can to bolster that.

 

Thirdy is Sosa. His HR totals when he hangs it up should make him a candidate as well.

 

Palmy really doesn't have much to lose either way so I think he seems genuinely concerned about the issue now.

[YASNY]

I look at Canseco a little differently than maybe some of you.  It doesn't matter to me what he thought in 2002.  His book brought the matter to the mainstream media's attention & that brought it to Congress' attention.

Before his book the anti-doping institute could barely get someone to answer a phone call on this comm. 

 

For that alone Canseco deserves some honorable recognition.  Going forward it's all about who has the most to lose.  Since he's presently on probation in the state of FL that's definitely Canseco.  He probably needs to do more good works in this issue than any one else.

 

Next would have to be Mac.  He's still a HOF candidate & he needs to do as much as he can to bolster that. 

 

Thirdy is Sosa.  His HR totals when he hangs it up should make him a candidate as well.

 

Palmy really doesn't have much to lose either way so I think he seems genuinely concerned about the issue now.

 

I'll give Canseco his "honorable mention". I'll even give him the money he made on the book. Now, just go away Jose.

 

Big Mac's HOF candicacy just took a big hit.

 

I believe Sosa will eventual take a major hit. He's not smart enough to dodge this until he's elected to the HOF.

 

As I said earlier, Raffy Palmeiro I'd have to give the benefit of the doubt .... today.

[greasywheels121]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/base...s.ap/index.html

 

Heartland heartbreak

Cardinal Nation critical of McGwire's testimony

 

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Mark McGwire took more hits a day after his congressional testimony, with the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency calling his evasions tantamount to an admission of steroid use.

 

A congressman at Thursday's hearing wants McGwire's name removed from a highway. Even McGwire's former manager, Tony La Russa, was surprised by McGwire's repeated refusals to deny using steroids.

 

"I think it would have been a lot better for him to say, 'I did it and I'm sorry,'" former baseball commissioner Fay Vincent said.

 

McGwire has denied using illegal performance-enhancing drugs but refused to do so under oath Thursday when he appeared before the House Government Reform Committee, citing advice from his lawyer. McGwire repeatedly said he would not discuss his past.

 

"What I saw and heard was a confession," WADA chairman Richard Pound said Friday during a symposium at Saint Louis University on doping in sports.

 

Committee member Christopher Shays, a Connecticut Republican, put it bluntly Friday: "Is there any doubt in your mind that Mark McGwire took drugs?"

 

La Russa, who managed McGwire on both the Oakland Athletics and the Cardinals, said he believes McGwire's denials.

 

"In my opinion, being under oath wouldn't have changed what he said," La Russa said at spring training in Jupiter, Fla. "I think he was overcoached. Mostly, I think it was a missed opportunity to explain that if you use substances like creatine and over-the-counter stuff that's not illegal, you can get the benefits of a hard-core weight training program. And that was never discussed. You can get bigger and stronger doing this legally, and I didn't hear that."

 

La Russa was hoping for more during the testimony.

 

"He's made a statement where he's denied it, and I thought it was a great time to make that same statement," La Russa said. "I think he was kind of coached into saying this one thing, 'I'm here about the future, not about the past.' I was surprised he didn't repeat what he said earlier. I think it would have helped his cause."

 

La Russa admits that he's biased toward McGwire because of their friendship.

 

"It's impossible to separate myself from what I know of how hard he worked and how he developed," La Russa said. "Could I have an opinion if I was just a fan? Yeah, he looked uncomfortable the whole time. But then, I saw him uncomfortable in 1998 when people asked him questions and he was just shy and wanted to hide from them."

 

U.S. Rep. William Lacy Clay, a Missouri Democrat, wants McGwire's name stripped off the 5-mile stretch of Interstate-70 that was named after Big Mac following his 70-homer season in 1998.

 

"It would take an act by the state legislature, but I don't think he deserves a name on the highway if he can't be forthcoming about his involvement with this issue," Clay told The Associated Press on Friday.

 

Gov. Mel Carnahan signed legislation in 1999 officially naming a section from the city's western edge to the Illinois border, "Mark McGwire Highway."

 

The chairman of the state Senate Transportation Committee said McGwire's name will remain, as far as he's concerned.

 

"Mark McGwire was a hero of baseball in St. Louis," state Sen. Jon Dolan said. "He remains so and must deal with the choices he's made. But nothing he did would change my mind about what we do or don't name highways."

 

Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro and Frank Thomas told the committee Thursday they did not use illegal steroids. McGwire has previously denied steroid use, but under oath repeatedly sidestepped questions by saying he wouldn't discuss his past.

 

"It was disappointing because I didn't think he took the opportunity to make clear to his fans and the rest of America that he was not under the influence of steroids when he set those home run records in 1998," Clay said. "He does not come clean. He's not forthcoming. His fans and the public want to know, where do you stand on this, Mark McGwire?"

 

New York Yankees slugger Jason Giambi, who was excused from testifying because of his involvement in the ongoing federal investigation into illegal steroid distribution, said he left a phone message for McGwire, but had not heard back.

 

"I know that had to be incredibly hard for him," Giambi said. "He was emotional up there.

 

"Mark, he is an incredible guy. A lot of people out there love him and I think will continue to. I definitely feel for Mark, no doubt about it."

 

Boston pitcher David Wells accepts McGwire's denial last month of steroid use.

 

"I'm sure a lot of people are going to have a big question mark against Mark," Wells said, "but I believe him until proven otherwise."

[rangercal]

Mcgwire is guilty. I feel a little bad for him because that has to be the worst feeling in the world ( to be discovered as a fraud or cheater) . He is human too and has family , friends, and fans who will look at him in a different light now. He should have thought that through though.

 

 

I am sick of seeing Franks name next to sosas and palmeiro in denying use of steroids. I would think the casual baseball fan or even a non fan but knows who thomas is would think of the strong possibility of steroid use .

 

 

Why is their no coverage of Frank getting put into the task force? I didnt even see a mention in the suntimes.

Edited March 19, 2005 by rangercal

[WilliamTell]

I do like McGwire and yes his homeruns will be tarnished, but he is doing the right thing by coming out, and I applaud him for that.

[rangercal]

I do like McGwire and yes his homeruns will be tarnished, but he is doing the right thing by coming out, and I applaud him for that.

I don't really call that coming out. You have no choice but to apear before congress if called upon. He walked around every question and gave no direct answer. He didn't admit nor deny use of steroids.

[Flash Tizzle]

I'll give Canseco his "honorable mention".  I'll even give him the money he made on the book.  Now, just go away Jose.

 

Big Mac's HOF candicacy just took a big hit.

 

I believe Sosa will eventual take a major hit.  He's not smart enough to dodge this until he's elected to the HOF. 

 

As I said earlier, Raffy Palmeiro I'd have to give the benefit of the doubt .... today.

 

Watching ESPN debate Mac's HOF status earlier in the day, there appeared to be a consensus among panelists his appointment into the hall was guaranteed- regardless of past discretions.

 

What could happen, if you believe ESPN's baseball analysts, is Mac may not be selected his first eligible year. Journalists are instructed to consider attitude, demeanor, and various other traits expected of an ambassador to MLB when casting their votes.Ripken and Gwynn, also eligibile for induction in 2008, are honorable baseball players who will further draw constrasts from McGwire.

 

If it were my choice, I'd never vote McGwire in the hall. What exactly is he supposed to say during his introduction cerermony? "Through hard work and dedication I'm happy to have been voted in this prestigious institution." BULLs***, Mac.

Edited March 19, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[Steff]

I do like McGwire and yes his homeruns will be tarnished, but he is doing the right thing by coming out, and I applaud him for that.

 

 

"Coming out"...??

 

He refused to discuss anything. He sat there and weaped about the kid who killed himself yet didn't even want to comment about his use of Andro...? Big fat slap in the face, IMO.

[greasywheels121]

Everyone was saying McGwire was going into this thing with the most to lose. He certainly came out of it with the most lost.

[YASNY]

Everyone was saying McGwire was going into this thing with the most to lose.  He certainly came out of it with the most lost.

 

 

That's because he has no balls.

[Soxy]

That's because he has no balls.

 

Well, yeah, that's the big side effect of steriods.....

 

Sorry, had to do it.

[Steff]

I went to get my book signed by Jose today in Naperville... Told him I thought he did great on Thursday and he even entertained me when I asked a few questions. He was very nice to everyone that was there (300+ people), and awesome with the kids (don't do drugs in a very serious manner, not proud of himself, etc..).