Terri Shaivo thread

[JUGGERNAUT]

Have you ever seen her parents clutching a picture of the 16 year old 200lb Terri?  No, that would detract from their media blitz.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-0...-disorder_x.htm

 

Can her whacked out Potassium levels that caused her heart to stop be explained away by something else?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.... you get the picture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

With all due respect to your ducks, presented in that same article are the claims that Michael was attracted to her after the wt loss, Michael was aware of her struggle with wt loss, the malpractice suit was based on the Dr's influence on her diet, & her Fr believes Michael had some involvement in her heart stoppage. Is it conceivable that Michael put unduly pressure on her with respect to her wt?

Edited March 24, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Steff]

Her bullemia was alleged and not conclusively proven or assumed.

 

 

Yea.... ok.

 

That's why Michael won the mailpractive suit on behalf of Terry and the hospital admitted the misdiagnosis... I mean.. obviously it's common practice to just hand out a million $$'s and admit fault when they really aren't at fault.. :rolly

 

 

Not to mention.. her parents admitted and supported Michael in the lawsuit..

 

 

Gimme some time, there's a lot of them, but I'm gonna find that LKL transcript.

[Steff]

With all due respect to your ducks, Michael was attracted to her after the wt loss, Michael was aware of her struggle with wt loss, the malpractice suit was based on the Dr's influence on her diet, & her Fr believes Michael had some involvement in her heart stoppage.  Is it conceivable that Michael put unduly pressure on her with respect to her wt?

 

 

 

Good grief... your nose has got to be 20 miles long and the stentch from all that s*** your full of has got to be something else..

[Soxbadger]

Is there any evidence to suggest her husband put undue pressure on her?

 

Why are all of these argued in hypotheticals?

 

There was a case, filled with facts. You better believe that the first malpractice suit lawyer exhuasted every avenue to try and pin it on the husband, anyone else but the Dr.'s.

 

Its not like this happened a week ago and people are just getting the facts, the case is old. The facts are old. There were findings, and once the trial court has found the facts, the only standard to over turn them are "manifest weight of the evidence."

 

SB

[kapkomet]

Take the emotion out of it.

 

Florida has a law.

 

The judges interpreted it correctly, for once.

 

That's the LAW of the state of Florida, so STFU.

 

That's all.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Is there any evidence to suggest her husband put undue pressure on her?

 

Why are all of these argued in hypotheticals?

 

There was a case, filled with facts. You better believe that the first malpractice suit lawyer exhuasted every avenue to try and pin it on the husband, anyone else but the Dr.'s.

 

Its not like this happened a week ago and people are just getting the facts, the case is old. The facts are old. There were findings, and once the trial court has found the facts, the only standard to over turn them are "manifest weight of the evidence."

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You missed the point of my post completely. I have a stalker on these boards who does that all the time. Where as you do it in a polite & courteous manner she does it in a vulgar & obnoxious one. When I read her posts I'm reminded of a boar.

 

I simply read the article & listed the claims that were written in it to show you there are two sides to the story & how you can conclude opposite things. Nothing more than that. I've pretty much stayed out of the discussion as to why she is in this condition. I don't believe Michael wanted his wife in this condition & if he could have done anything to prevent it he would have. There is nothing I've read that would lead me to believe anything to the contrary.

[Steff]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/27/lkl.00.html

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

KING:

You think he had a rightful suit?

 

M. SCHINDLER:

Absolutely, absolutely, he had a rightful suit.

[Steff]

You missed the point of my post completely.  I have a stalker on these boards who does that all the time.  Where as you do it in a polite & courteous manner she does it in a vulgar & obnoxious one.  When I read her posts I'm reminded of a boar.

 

 

 

Awwww.. Jugger.. it'll be OK. Stop posting bulls*** and lies and I'll lay off ya.

[Rex Kickass]

Stolen from a dailykos post.

 

What is it with Florida and intent?

Seriously, just write s*** down.

[Queen Prawn]

A rather interesting transcript.

[Soxbadger]

Juggernaut,

 

Np, I do not believe that print media can really be trusted. They rarely if ever correctly report court cases. The best policy in my opinion is to use the courts findings of facts (where both sides had the opportunity to refute the others claims).

 

The courts are all in agreement, there is no reason legal reason why it should be over turned, at this point it is just an emotional attempt, and failure to let go.

 

SB

[JUGGERNAUT]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-0...-disorder_x.htm

Based on the article alone, it's clear that she attempted to keep her wt down with primarily a liquid diet. When she visited the doctor because she had stopped menstruating he failed to take a complete medical history that would have revealed this. The medical records at the hospital confirmed that her diet had been mostly liquid. So there's no question there was an eating disorder. She clearly was not getting the vitamins & minerals she needed daily that are part of the food we eat.

 

The testimony does not include eye-witness account of seeing her forcing the food up her throat. It simply indicates she would often go to the bathroom after eating when out with friends. Many people do that & they are not bullemic.

 

Not all bullemia is the same either. I dated a girl before who would do it only when eating out because calories in restaurant food where much greater than her normal diet. I said as long as I see you eat healthy food

& you promise me that you will not upchuck the healthy stuff I won't bother you about it. But be rest assured I am going to bother you over healthy foods all the time.

Edited March 24, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Steff]

Not all bullemia is the same either.  I dated a girl before who would do it only when eating out because calories in restaurant food where much greater than her normal diet.  I said as long as I see you eat healthy food

& you promise me that you would upchuck the healthy stuff I won't bother you about it.  But be rest assured I am going to bother you over healthy foods all the time.

 

 

 

Boy.. that's real nice of you to have contributed to someone's eating disorder.

[JUGGERNAUT]

IMO, her attempt at a liquid diet based mostly on iced tea makes the story even sadder. I believe this is probable because of her need to go to the doctor months before her collapse.

 

I have no idea what went on in their home but I wish Terri would have at least adopted a fruit & vegetable diet when she decided to do this. There are few calories that can't be burned off in these foods. There is non-fat milk to still give her calcium that can be burned off. There are even protein shakes with few calories that she can burn off. There were many alternatives to just an iced tea diet for her to keep the wt off.

[Steff]

A rather interesting transcript.

 

 

It's definitely sad.

 

And just when I say.. "damn.. that guy is such an asshole.. " I hear them tell a story about not being able to see her.. and in the next breath her sister and the lawyers are in there visiting her..

 

How's that saying go... there's his story, their story, and the truth..

[kapkomet]

You missed the point of my post completely.  I have a stalker on these boards who does that all the time.  Where as you do it in a polite & courteous manner she does it in a vulgar & obnoxious one.  When I read her posts I'm reminded of a boar.

 

Wow. I've sat back and watched you wiggle like a smashed, trampled on earthworm every time someone challenges your viewpoint.

 

Please get off your high horse.

 

Oh, let me guess. This was sarcasm. :rolly

 

GMAFB.

 

You have strong opinions. So do others. I notice that people who challenge you the most are "obnoxious".

 

Let's change the subject. That's next.

 

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE RIGHT ABOUT EVERY f***ING ISSUE.

 

Is that clear enough for you? Probably not. You are really well versed, I just wish you would concede that you're wrong every once in a while and not look for problems when people strongly disagree.

 

I'm NOT saying you're wrong about this issue. There's too much emotion in it to say whether ANYONE is right or wrong right now, and all the logic in the world can't save you.

 

Please stop with the veiled personal crap just because someone dares disagree, hmmm, 'kay?

[JUGGERNAUT]

Boy.. that's real nice of you to have contributed to someone's eating disorder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You need serious help. I noticed the typo after posting it & corrected it right away.

Of course any one with a strong sense of logic in terms of linquistics would have realized it made no sense with respect to the typo.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I'm NOT saying you're wrong about this issue.  There's too much emotion in it to say whether ANYONE is right or wrong right now, and all the logic in the world can't save you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dude, I probably have more posts on these boards admitting when I was wrong about something than any one else. Secondly I probably have more posts that include an apology to someone than any one else.

 

Wrt the transcript, I read it. I didn't see any mention of eating disorder or bullemia.

But I do agree that they were right on the suit. Is Terri alive & well today if the doctor asks her about her diet & her medical history under those circumstances? I believe the answer is yes. Is that common practice? I don't know, but from personal experiences conveyed to me I believe it is.

 

The hospital records documenting her diet suggest she would not have lied to him. I have to believe that the Dr not only would have talked to her about her diet but I believe he would have advised her to take vitamin supplements. That's what the Dr recommended to someone I know & no her condition was not related to an eating disorder. It was related to bc pills. She had long been off of them & had gotten worried. From the medical history he had learned she smoked & was likewise trying to keep her wt down. This is not the psuedo-bulemic girl I mentioned before. So he recommended to her vitamin supplements.

 

If you are looking for someone to blame I think it falls on all 3. Terri, Michael, & the doctor. Terri's for trying to keep her wt down in a stupid way, Michael for not realizing it, & the doctor for not doing what is common based on the condition she presented him.

Edited March 24, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Steff]

You need serious help.  I noticed the typo after posting it & corrected it right away.

Of course any one with a strong sense of logic in terms of linquistics would have realized it made no sense with respect to the typo.

 

 

 

Typo.. I didn't notice any typo.. I was too busy picking my mouth up off the floor from reading this...

 

"Not all bullemia is the same either. I dated a girl before who would do it only when eating out because calories in restaurant food where much greater than her normal diet. I said as long as I see you eat healthy food

& you promise me that you would upchuck the healthy stuff I won't bother you about it. But be rest assured I am going to bother you over healthy foods all the time."

 

 

I think you act like an ass sometimes.. but to contribute to a life threatening disease.. ? To basically encourage someone to practice such behavior...?? There's a special place in the afterlife for people like you...

[Rex Kickass]

Let's cool it kids. Don't make me fish out my padlock keys.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Typo.. I didn't notice any typo..    I was too busy picking my mouth up off the floor from reading this...

 

"Not all bullemia is the same either.  I dated a girl before who would do it only when eating out because calories in restaurant food where much greater than her normal diet.  I said as long as I see you eat healthy food

& you promise me that you would upchuck the healthy stuff I won't bother you about it. But be rest assured I am going to bother you over healthy foods all the time."

I think you act like an ass sometimes.. but to contribute to a life threatening disease.. ? To basically encourage someone to practice such behavior...?? There's a special place in the afterlife for people like you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You need serious help. I've corrected the post already & yet like a boar you have decided to post your own version of it.

 

Here is the corrected post:

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...=400&p=614831

 

Not all bullemia is the same either. I dated a girl before who would do it only when eating out because calories in restaurant food where much greater than her normal diet. I said as long as I see you eat healthy food & you promise me that you will NOT upchuck the healthy stuff I won't bother you about it. But be rest assured I am going to bother you over healthy foods all the time.

 

The word NOT did not make it into the post the first time. Why?

It's a question of bandwidth at the time your typing & the size of your buffer. Sometimes the bandwidth is too small to where characters are flushed from the buffer to the bit bucket. This happens often when you are using the bandwidth for more than just posting to a message board & you are multi-tasking at the same time.

 

I decided to view your posts because someone made reference to you posting a link of a transcript. That was my mistake it is obvious to all it is best I ignore you for the sake of harmony on the board.

Edited March 24, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Queen Prawn]

I think the point Steff was making was that you thought her self-forced upchucking was okay as long as it was restaurant food.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I think the point Steff was making was that you thought her self-forced upchucking was okay as long as it was restaurant food.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since you obviously want to know more I will give you the whole story as I recall it:

 

I caught her when she had returned with a stain on her sweater. I said are you ok? She said she was fine. I said did you throw-up? She said how did you know? I said there's a little of it on her blouse. That's when guilt overwhelmed & she confessed. I said you know that can severly damage your esophagus. She said no because I don't wait long enough for it to mix with stomach acid. I said are you aware of acid-reflux? She said no. I said it's a condition with the flap over your stomach sometimes opens up slightly & stomach acid can leak into the esophagus. She said oh. I said don't you think the more you do that the more likely you are to mess that up? She said no.

 

I was hoping she would say yes.

 

I then asked do you do this all the time? She was silent. So I asked do you eat healthy foods? She said yes. Do you keep them down? She said yes. So what made you do what you did? She told me restaurant food makes her fat. I said do you get enough milk, vitamins, fruit, cereal? She said yes. So it's only restaurant food? She said yes. How do you think I feel about that? You're upset. Is that going to make you stop? She was silent again & stopped looking at me.

 

So I said will you promise me one thing? She said what? Will you promise me you will always allow the healthy foods you eat to digest? She said yes. I said as long as I can trust you do to that I won't bother you when we eat out. But I asked two more questions. You know I'm always going to be concerned about you over this right? She said Yes. You also know I'm always going to try to feed you now right?

She laughed .. and said yes.

 

I think I was early 20's & she was 20.

 

Needless to say in the months that followed even her restaurant behavior changed.

I didn't have to say a word. I would just look at that spot I was looking at the night

I caught her & she would say What? Then she would say "I didn't do that."

 

I can't speak for what she did when she went out with friends, but I can say I fed her as often as I could when I was around her. Lots of fruit, lots of salad, lots of veggies, some meat, some fish, & whatever else she would let me. When the subject did come up I did mention to her you should tell your doctor about it. It's not healthy.

Sometimes she would remain silent & sometimes she would say ok.

 

You can't force people to do things just because they are the right thing. You have to gradually lead them down that path. We didn't last more than a couple of years but I would like to think I helped her through this. I was fortunate to have caught her.

Edited March 25, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[JUGGERNAUT]

MSNBC reported that the courts issued an order directing the FLDCFS to not take Terri into protective custody. Gov Bush has stated he will not violate that order.

 

Terri's last thread is Judge Whittemore's view of Dr. Cheshire's testimony on Terri's state.

 

I'd personally like to see the talk die down concerning the Schiavo Law. This law amounted as nothing more than a tool that can be used by the courts if they see fit to use it. It's that weak.

 

Think of the irony. They rushed a law to save a woman's life & it was never used by the courts to save her life. That's pretty weak in my opinion.

Edited March 25, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[sox4lifeinPA]

I'll refrain from saying what I want to really say, but if I'm reading the poll numbers correctly, there are 30 really f***ed up people on this board...