shagar69 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 Can somebody please explain the story of Bruce Pearl and his connection to the U of I? i have heard that we are supposed to hate him because he hurt our program somehow, but i was too young to remember what happened, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 (edited) Ok... Bruce was an assitant at Iowa Illinois had won the recruiting battle for Deon Thomas. Pearl illegaly recorded a phone convo he had with Thomas where Deon said we would give him a car or something. But Pearl edited the part where he told Deon he would top our offer. He turned it in to the NCAA we go on probation for 5 years. Edited March 20, 2005 by WHarris1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 (edited) For the record, I know a member of the 1994-95 teams (non-scholarship) -- He drove the same new blue chevy blazer that everyone else on the team had. It was a widely known and joked about on campus at the time. Edited March 20, 2005 by Gene Honda Civic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backman Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 pearl will get whats coming soon enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagar69 Posted March 20, 2005 Author Share Posted March 20, 2005 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 20, 2005 -> 01:04 AM) Ok... Bruce was an assitant at Iowa Illinois had won the recruiting battle for Deon Thomas. Pearl illegaly recorded a phone convo he had with Thomas where Deon said we would give him a car or something. But Pearl edited the part where he told Deon he would top our offer. He turned it in to the NCAA we go on probation for 5 years. wow, what a f***in douche. I cant wait to beat the s*** outta the f***in Panthers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 20, 2005 -> 12:04 AM) Ok... Bruce was an assitant at Iowa Illinois had won the recruiting battle for Deon Thomas. Pearl illegaly recorded a phone convo he had with Thomas where Deon said we would give him a car or something. But Pearl edited the part where he told Deon he would top our offer. He turned it in to the NCAA we go on probation for 5 years. It's even bigger than that though too. See Jimmy Collins was an assistant for the Illini and next in line to be head coach of the Illini. Pearl alleged that Collins was the one who offered all the benefits to Deon Thomas which Illinois was basically forced not to give him a job and eventually led to him having to leave. Now you say what's the big deal about that?? The big deal is that the public leaguers loveeeed Collins and were pissed off Collins wasn't the coach at Illinois so all the public league coaches told their players to stay away from UofI in Urbana because they were racist or w/e. That's why it's been such a tough task for the Illini to recruit in Chicago(more specifically the Public League up until recently). That's why you see Jimmy Collins getting more public leaguers at UIC and the rest going to Depaul or out of state. That's why UIC and Jimmy Collins hate him so much and is why they have never shook hands after a game. Sort of the Kobe-Shaq thing, but much more real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxhawks Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 20, 2005 -> 07:06 PM) It's even bigger than that though too. See Jimmy Collins was an assistant for the Illini and next in line to be head coach of the Illini. Pearl alleged that Collins was the one who offered all the benefits to Deon Thomas which Illinois was basically forced not to give him a job and eventually led to him having to leave. Now you say what's the big deal about that?? The big deal is that the public leaguers loveeeed Collins and were pissed off Collins wasn't the coach at Illinois so all the public league coaches told their players to stay away from UofI in Urbana because they were racist or w/e. That's why it's been such a tough task for the Illini to recruit in Chicago(more specifically the Public League up until recently). That's why you see Jimmy Collins getting more public leaguers at UIC and the rest going to Depaul or out of state. That's why UIC and Jimmy Collins hate him so much and is why they have never shook hands after a game. Sort of the Kobe-Shaq thing, but much more real. ya pearl and collins wont even shake hands, if he had the chance collins would kill pearl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 What people have said so far is basically correct. Hence the hatred for him and Iowa from Illini Nation. Bruce is gonna get his. I can't wait for this matchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 That fact of the matter was Illinois was doing some illegal things. A lot, if not all players were indeed given use of Chevy Blazers. Pearl turning them in was frowned at by Illinois coaches and fans. If it were Jimmy Collins turning in Tom Davis, Illini fans would have an incredibly different take. The Illini were put on probation for violations. I don't remember if the Blazers had anything to do with the probation, but Pearl definitely got the ball rolling on the investigation. Pearl has become one of the top small school coaches in the country. I'm sure it chaps Jimmy Collins' ass that Pearl is 10 times the coach he is. Pearl did Illinois a huge favor. If this scandal hadn't happened, Collins probably would have succeeded Lou Henson, and regardless of Jimmy's ties to the public league, there is no way the program would be in the position it is today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 20, 2005 -> 09:00 PM) That fact of the matter was Illinois was doing some illegal things. A lot, if not all players were indeed given use of Chevy Blazers. Pearl turning them in was frowned at by Illinois coaches and fans. If it were Jimmy Collins turning in Tom Davis, Illini fans would have an incredibly different take. The Illini were put on probation for violations. I don't remember if the Blazers had anything to do with the probation, but Pearl definitely got the ball rolling on the investigation. Pearl has become one of the top small school coaches in the country. I'm sure it chaps Jimmy Collins' ass that Pearl is 10 times the coach he is. Pearl did Illinois a huge favor. If this scandal hadn't happened, Collins probably would have succeeded Lou Henson, and regardless of Jimmy's ties to the public league, there is no way the program would be in the position it is today. You're right, It would probably be stronger. The fact that Illinois basically couldn't recruit from one of the biggest and best cities for basketball hurt them big. Look at Duke, they were getting Chicago Public League recruits all the way down there.(Latest 2 were Dockery and M. Thompson) and they wouldn't have had such a problem building up their program again. They were absolved of all things and the reason why Pearl did it was because he lost out on a recruit. Hell Duke gave Chris Duhon's mom a $155,000 job "coincidentally" as they were recruiting him. They also gave Carlos Boozer's family some money from what I remember too. I don't see Bruce Pearl trying to get Duke popped off. The Blazers didn't have anything to do with the investigation. He was just a bitter man. Hell Dickie V. doesn't even like him and that's why he's pretty much "blackballed" from a major program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 20, 2005 -> 09:27 PM) You're right, It would probably be stronger. The fact that Illinois basically couldn't recruit from one of the biggest and best cities for basketball hurt them big. Look at Duke, they were getting Chicago Public League recruits all the way down there.(Latest 2 were Dockery and M. Thompson) and they wouldn't have had such a problem building up their program again. They were absolved of all things and the reason why Pearl did it was because he lost out on a recruit. Hell Duke gave Chris Duhon's mom a $155,000 job "coincidentally" as they were recruiting him. They also gave Carlos Boozer's family some money from what I remember too. I don't see Bruce Pearl trying to get Duke popped off. The Blazers didn't have anything to do with the investigation. He was just a bitter man. Hell Dickie V. doesn't even like him and that's why he's pretty much "blackballed" from a major program. Thomas verbally committed to Iowa then switched to Illinois. Then Thomas tells Pearl Illinois offered him cash and a car. Pearl turns them in. The person responsible for all of this was Deon Thomas, not Bruce Pearl. Why would you tell a coach of another university, you are backing out of your commitment to them because another school is giving you cash and a car? If Illinois was absolved of all wrong doing, why were they put on probation? If you think Illinois would be stronger with Jimmy Collins coaching them, you need to look at the job he's done at UIC. Not too impressive. Pearl kicked his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2005 -> 02:47 PM) Thomas verbally committed to Iowa then switched to Illinois. Then Thomas tells Pearl Illinois offered him cash and a car. Pearl turns them in. The person responsible for all of this was Deon Thomas, not Bruce Pearl. Why would you tell a coach of another university, you are backing out of your commitment to them because another school is giving you cash and a car? If Illinois was absolved of all wrong doing, why were they put on probation? If you think Illinois would be stronger with Jimmy Collins coaching them, you need to look at the job he's done at UIC. Not too impressive. Pearl kicked his ass. Oh Dick, Dick, Dick...c'mon...I'll agree with the Pearl over Collins coaching ability. But, the Deon Thomas and Illinois were cleared of allegations over that incident. They were put on probation for other infractions, which, if you opened up an investigation at ANY PROGRAM, would probably come up. Including Duke, UNC, Kentucky or Kansas. From what I remember (I was at Illinois at the time), Thomas was a 17 year old kid, trying to get an aggressive recruiter off his back. Did Deon say those things, probably, but the NCAA couldn't prove anything and instead saved face by putting Illinois on probabation for other infractions. Bruce Pearl is on the same level as Linda Tripp. Why wasn't he, or the Iowa team, put on probation for illegally wiretapping a recruit? Isn't that entrapment? Sorry Dick, but Bruce Pearl, good coach or not, is not a martyr, not a do gooder, he is a rat, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 QUOTE(TheDybber @ Mar 21, 2005 -> 10:54 AM) Bruce Pearl is on the same level as Linda Tripp. Why wasn't he, or the Iowa team, put on probation for illegally wiretapping a recruit? Isn't that entrapment? Sorry Dick, but Bruce Pearl, good coach or not, is not a martyr, not a do gooder, he is a rat, plain and simple. In most states it is legal to tape record conversations you are in. That is very different than wiretapping, which is listening in and/or recording conversations you are not a party to. One link Federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. A majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. These laws are referred to as "one-party consent" statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it. (Nevada also has a one-party consent statute, but the state Supreme Court has interpreted it as an all-party rule.) Twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. Those jurisdictions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. Be aware that you will sometimes hear these referred to inaccurately as "two-party consent" laws. If there are more than two people involved in the conversation, all must consent to the taping. Regardless of the state, it is almost always illegal to record a conversation to which you are not a party, do not have consent to tape, and could not naturally overhear. If it is an interstate call, the federal law would cover it. Wow, I get to dust off some of my old journalism training. \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 QUOTE(TheDybber @ Mar 21, 2005 -> 10:54 AM) Oh Dick, Dick, Dick...c'mon...I'll agree with the Pearl over Collins coaching ability. But, the Deon Thomas and Illinois were cleared of allegations over that incident. They were put on probation for other infractions, which, if you opened up an investigation at ANY PROGRAM, would probably come up. Including Duke, UNC, Kentucky or Kansas. From what I remember (I was at Illinois at the time), Thomas was a 17 year old kid, trying to get an aggressive recruiter off his back. Did Deon say those things, probably, but the NCAA couldn't prove anything and instead saved face by putting Illinois on probabation for other infractions. Bruce Pearl is on the same level as Linda Tripp. Why wasn't he, or the Iowa team, put on probation for illegally wiretapping a recruit? Isn't that entrapment? Sorry Dick, but Bruce Pearl, good coach or not, is not a martyr, not a do gooder, he is a rat, plain and simple. I agree completely. Illinois was put on probation because of other things. I'm saying the Illini wouldn't have lost out on recruits, especially from Illinois(top recruits that is) if they weren't put on probation. Hell, they might've never made it back up ala UNLV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Tex...It says right in your article: Twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. Those jurisdictions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. Be aware that you will sometimes hear these referred to inaccurately as "two-party consent" laws. If there are more than two people involved in the conversation, all must consent to the taping. Deon Thomas wasn't informed. AND to make matters worse, he was a minor. And with the Republican government in then, they would have deferred to the state law. I know what you are saying, but Bruce Pearl was wrong. He broke the law. He wouldn't have gone to a pound-you-in-the-ass prison, but he would have gotten a nice little fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 QUOTE(TheDybber @ Mar 21, 2005 -> 10:54 AM) Oh Dick, Dick, Dick...c'mon...I'll agree with the Pearl over Collins coaching ability. But, the Deon Thomas and Illinois were cleared of allegations over that incident. They were put on probation for other infractions, which, if you opened up an investigation at ANY PROGRAM, would probably come up. Including Duke, UNC, Kentucky or Kansas. From what I remember (I was at Illinois at the time), Thomas was a 17 year old kid, trying to get an aggressive recruiter off his back. Did Deon say those things, probably, but the NCAA couldn't prove anything and instead saved face by putting Illinois on probabation for other infractions. Bruce Pearl is on the same level as Linda Tripp. Why wasn't he, or the Iowa team, put on probation for illegally wiretapping a recruit? Isn't that entrapment? Sorry Dick, but Bruce Pearl, good coach or not, is not a martyr, not a do gooder, he is a rat, plain and simple. They were put on probation, but not because of what Pearl taped. More reason to back off him. They were put on probation for other infractions. They cheated. Remember, Thomas made a verbal commitment to this "aggressive recruiter", then changed his mind, and told Pearl he was getting 80K and a Blazer. They weren't even put on probation for the Blazers, which was common knowledge every Illini player had. I am saying if Thomas never said Collins paid him, and never said he was gettting a car, all of this would never have happened. Pearl might not have been totally above board, but given all the information, there is no way the guy's a rat. Thomas bears a lot of responsibility for this. I don't know what the laws were back then, but considering Pearl was never charged with anything, and Iowa received no penalties, nothing illegal must have happened. I will guarantee you there were a lot of coaches and administrators around the Big Ten who secretly raised a glass to Bruce Pearl. A lot of crap was going on with that program, and everyone (except for maybe Lou Henson) knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2005 -> 11:26 PM) They were put on probation, but not because of what Pearl taped. More reason to back off him. They were put on probation for other infractions. They cheated. Remember, Thomas made a verbal commitment to this "aggressive recruiter", then changed his mind, and told Pearl he was getting 80K and a Blazer. They weren't even put on probation for the Blazers, which was common knowledge every Illini player had. I am saying if Thomas never said Collins paid him, and never said he was gettting a car, all of this would never have happened. Pearl might not have been totally above board, but given all the information, there is no way the guy's a rat. Thomas bears a lot of responsibility for this. I don't know what the laws were back then, but considering Pearl was never charged with anything, and Iowa received no penalties, nothing illegal must have happened. I will guarantee you there were a lot of coaches and administrators around the Big Ten who secretly raised a glass to Bruce Pearl. A lot of crap was going on with that program, and everyone (except for maybe Lou Henson) knew it. Wrong buddy. He was pissed off because he lost out on a recruit. No one in the Big Ten liked the guy and everyone saw him as a rat, especially after the incident. Even Dickie V thinks he's a rat which is why he never comments on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 12:30 AM) Wrong buddy. He was pissed off because he lost out on a recruit. No one in the Big Ten liked the guy and everyone saw him as a rat, especially after the incident. Even Dickie V thinks he's a rat which is why he never comments on him. The fact of the matter is Ill. got caught with other infractions from the investigation. They're not exactly innocent... And Dickie V's opinion is about as credible as... s***, I couldn't come up with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 02:28 AM) The fact of the matter is Ill. got caught with other infractions from the investigation. They're not exactly innocent... And Dickie V's opinion is about as credible as... s***, I couldn't come up with anything. Actually, I think you summed it up quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 12:36 PM) Actually, I think you summed it up quite nicely. Yes, Illinois was guilty. Yes, Deon Thomas could have said nothing. But he was 17, and I don't know about you, but I didn't always do the right thing at 17. My point was, if the situation was reversed, and Collins taped a call, implicating Pearl, and the NCAA investigated, they (the NCAA) probably would have found things that Iowa did and put them on probation. The NCAA had to save face and gave the Illini a one year postseason ban and two years fewer scholarships. Illinois paid it's penalty (and I believe made a run to the title game of the Big Ten Championship in one of those years as a 10 or 11 seed), but that doesn't mean that Illinois should let it go. Bruce Pearl is a rat, plain and simple. And he definitely shouldn't be portraying himself as a martyr, as he is in some interviews now. And don't you tell me that an "aggressive recruiter" didn't offer cash, cars, women, whatever in the course of his time as an assistant or head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 QUOTE(TheDybber @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 09:24 AM) Yes, Illinois was guilty. Yes, Deon Thomas could have said nothing. But he was 17, and I don't know about you, but I didn't always do the right thing at 17. My point was, if the situation was reversed, and Collins taped a call, implicating Pearl, and the NCAA investigated, they (the NCAA) probably would have found things that Iowa did and put them on probation. The NCAA had to save face and gave the Illini a one year postseason ban and two years fewer scholarships. Illinois paid it's penalty (and I believe made a run to the title game of the Big Ten Championship in one of those years as a 10 or 11 seed), but that doesn't mean that Illinois should let it go. Bruce Pearl is a rat, plain and simple. And he definitely shouldn't be portraying himself as a martyr, as he is in some interviews now. And don't you tell me that an "aggressive recruiter" didn't offer cash, cars, women, whatever in the course of his time as an assistant or head coach. So you are saying Pearl is all wet while implying that he has broken numerous rules, has offered cash and other incentives to recruits etc. Where's the proof on your allegations? Illinois had run a dirty program for years, in fact, Ron Rappoport goes through a little of it in today's Sun-Times. Evidently, he didn't "offer" Deon Thomas more than Jimmy Collins did. Btw, Thomas was at least 18 when this happened, and maybe 19, which makes him an adult. He took NO responsibility. He is responsible for what he does. Finally, if the situation was reversed, and all the facts the same, and Jimmy taped Iowa, there is no chance in hell you would refer to him as a rat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 What Pearl did was low and dirty, and yes he f***ed with the tapes before turning it into the NCAA. It was classless as all hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 04:52 PM) So you are saying Pearl is all wet while implying that he has broken numerous rules, has offered cash and other incentives to recruits etc. Where's the proof on your allegations? Illinois had run a dirty program for years, in fact, Ron Rappoport goes through a little of it in today's Sun-Times. Evidently, he didn't "offer" Deon Thomas more than Jimmy Collins did. Btw, Thomas was at least 18 when this happened, and maybe 19, which makes him an adult. He took NO responsibility. He is responsible for what he does. Finally, if the situation was reversed, and all the facts the same, and Jimmy taped Iowa, there is no chance in hell you would refer to him as a rat. I'm saying if you would have looked at Iowa's recruiting, they probably would have been hit with sanctions, too. As would Duke, UNC, Indiana or any major conference program. I'm not alleging anything...I'm saying it was and probably still is a practice of ALL teams. What Bruce Pearl did was give the NCAA no other choice but to find anything to save face. When has the NCAA ever let anyone off the hook? And as for Collins, I was never a big fan of his anyway. The only thing he did with the Illini, as far as I'm concerned, was open the path from the Chicago Public League. I probably would refer to him as a rat. As for Thomas being 18, I thought I read in the Sun-Times or Trib a couple of days ago that he was 17 when he was being recruited...I'll check it out. Edited at 1:55pm: You are right. He was born in 1971, which would have made him 18 in 1989. That's still a lot of pressure to put on an 18 year old kid. But I retract all the minor talk...my bad. Edited March 22, 2005 by TheDybber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 11:37 AM) What Pearl did was low and dirty, and yes he f***ed with the tapes before turning it into the NCAA. It was classless as all hell. I gotta say there is one way to avoid that... Don't commit federal offenses, and if you do, don't tell other people about them, and if you want to tell someone, don't tell them over the phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 07:46 PM) I gotta say there is one way to avoid that... Don't commit federal offenses, and if you do, don't tell other people about them, and if you want to tell someone, don't tell them over the phone Thats what I have been thinking while reading through all of this thread. Don't give players money/whatever you gave them and this never would of happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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