High School Shooting in Red Lake, Minnesota

[KipWellsFan]

RED LAKE, Minn. -- The FBI was called to investigate a shooting today at Red Lake High School that may have killed six people and injured 14, according to police and broadcast reports.

 

At least four people have been hospitalized.

 

Tom Lyons, chief deputy for Beltrami County, said the shooting occured about 3 p.m. at the school in Red Lake. He said that as many as 14 people were injured. He said he did not know if any of the victims had been killed. "We don't know that yet," he said. "Our information is just too sketchy right now."

 

Red Lake High School principal Chris Dunshee called his wife Cathy shortly after the shootings occurred.

 

"He called to let me know he was OK and that was a relief,'' she said. "He didn't want to tell me any details, but said he thoughht five or six people were shot and that one was dead.''

Red Lake

 

KSTP-TV and KARE 11, quoting a Red Lake reservation official, said that six people may have died and many others were injured.

 

Lyons also said the shooter was in custody. He did not identify the assailant or say how the suspect was caught. He also said authorities are investigating the possibility that there may have been more than one shooter.

 

Sherri Birkeland, a spokeswoman for North Country Regional Hospital in Bemidji, said at about 5 p.m. that four people hurt in the shooting were in the hospital's emergency room. She said it was possible, but had not had a confirmation, that others might be brought in.

 

She did not know the victims' condition.

 

A spokeswoman for MeritCare Hospital in Fargo, N.D., said one victim was on the way.

 

American Indian Movement leader Clyde Bellecourt talked this afternoon to several family members on the reservation and said initial accounts of the shooting were unconfirmed and confusing.

 

"A lot of it's still second-hand, and sketchy,'' Bellecourt said. "Nobody has a clear idea of what exactly happened. The first report was that a student drove his car right into the school building, got out and shot a guard.''

 

He said he was told the gunman shot at least one teacher and three students before turning the gun on himself.

 

"A grandmother of one of the students called to say her grandson was shot,'' Bellecourt said. "She was crying the whole time.''

 

Both KSTP-TV and WCCO-AM reported the FBI had been called to the scene, and a news conference was planned later. An FBI spokesman didn't immediately return phone calls from The Associated Press, and officials with the Beltrami County Sheriff's Office and the city police department said they had no information.

 

Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, has about 300 students, according to its website. The reservation is home to the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians.

 

The Red Lake Indian Reservation is in far northern Minnesota, about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities.

 

Audrey Thayer, who lives in Bemidji and works as a researcher for the American Civil Liberties Union's Minneosta chapter, said the reservation was locked down by police with roadblocks. "They have got it closed off,'' she said.

 

Staff Writers Richard Meryhew, Bob Von Sternberg, Jim Walsh and John McIntyre contributed to this report.

[KipWellsFan]

Death toll has risen to 10

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/21/school.shooting/index.html

[JUGGERNAUT]

I wonder how Daley will respond to this. The initial reaction to Columbine was to install metal detectors at the public school. If the report of the kid driving the car into the school is true that's not going to help much.

 

Gun locks would help somewhat but it all depends whether he acted out of rage or premediated. If it was premediated then he could wait until he saved enough to purchase the gun illegally. If it was out of rage the lock would help to spin off time. Maybe enough to quiet the rage. I'm not talking a pad lock with a key or anything like that. I'm talking a lock that either disables the trigger or the firing mechanism. It would take the kid quite some time to take apart the gun to disable that. Then there's a good chance he wouldn't be able to put it back together again.

 

I'm a strong advocate for gun locks as it doesn't threaten our 2nd amend rights at all.

[MinnesotaSoxFan]

hmmmmm

Red Lake ain't that far from my town...

I can get some more info if you want...

[KipWellsFan]

I'm actually really close to Red Lake as well up in Winnipeg. Not going to have any inside information though.

Edited March 22, 2005 by KipWellsFan

[Flash Tizzle]

I was very surprised this story recieved practically no media coverage early in the afternoon, when the news first broke.

 

Browsing Yahoo stories I noticed a school shooting had occured nearly two hours earlier. Quickly, I turn to CNN and notice commentary devoted to Schiavo. FOX, MSNBC were following similar measures. Very strange; especially in this age of up-to-the-minute, 24 hour news networks searching for new stories. News copters were in route over Columbine nearly 10 minutes after media outlets learned of the shooting in Littleton.

 

You have to wonder whether the same approach would have been followed if these shooting occured outside an Indian reservation. Not that it matters; 10 people are still dead. I just found it rather odd.

Edited March 22, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[Soxy]

hmmmmm

Red Lake ain't that far from my town...

I can get some more info if you want...

Doug, that has to be at least 4 hours from Winona. At least......

 

Anyway, I was watching the news all of yesterday--only heard a blurb about it. What an amazingly tragic and horrible thing. My heart goes out to all of those families, students, teachers, everyone.

[southsider2k5]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050322/D8902GL00.html

 

What an incredibly sad story. And of course all of the tell-tale signs were there. The kid was bullied, obsessed with Nazism, father committed suicide, mother is in a home with brain damage.

 

The sad thing is that the potential for this is all over the place. With the lack of control in our schools, and the lack of time the teachers and administration have for individual attention, these incidents could happen anywhere at anytime. It was noted in the article that the kid pushed past a metal decector, so obviously security had been at least minimally addressed.

 

I really wish that schools could address problems at a much lower level, but with the focus on keeping kids in school and keeping disicipline numbers looking good, they tend to ignore the small problems, and then act surprised when something big happens.

 

I have yet to see one of these cases that the signs weren't out there, it was just lacking someone to fix the problem.

[southsider2k5]

The MSNBC article has a lot of quotes from this kid. Even if the grandparents weren't with it enough to catch this stuff, someone should have noticed. There was obviously something wrong with this kid, and it was ignored. Even sadder is there are kids all over this country who are throwing off these same signs today, and nothing is being done about it.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259823/

[JUGGERNAUT]

You're asking a lot SS. You're asking public school teachers to make a moral/ethical judgement based on the things kids talk about. That's not going to happen in our new found culture of secularist liberty.

 

It's reminiscent in Columbine. How many kids listen to Manson music religiously & then daily recite the lyrics at lunch? If the faculty or admin had picked up on that maybe they could have prevented that tragedy. But to do so means having to make a moral/ethical judgement. They may not be capable of doing that.

 

The answer of course lies in the local school boards. They can make that judgement for those who work in the school. If there is any blame to be cast it's for the members of the board. If they aren't capable or willing to make such judgements either than there is no hope of preventing these tragedies.

 

It would seem to me that the most obvious solution is to do what corporate America does. Have the school workers participate in a brown bag program where they sit & have lunch with a student everyday & just talk to them. As you eluded to it's more than likely suspect behavior would be picked up in those sessions. But that won't happen until the school board desires it.

[southsider2k5]

The liberty arguement holds no water. It has been run through the courts and kids have little to no rights to privacy at a school setting. Searches that would unconstitutional elsewhere, are perfectly fine in the HS setting. Freedom of speech is squashed at the school level everyday.

 

Its a lack of willingness to be involved, plain and simple.

[LosMediasBlancas]

'Neo Nazi', say no more. Total idiot.

No big loss, too bad he took other people with him.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

The liberty arguement holds no water.  It has been run through the courts and kids have little to no rights to privacy at a school setting.  Searches that would unconstitutional elsewhere, are perfectly fine in the HS setting.  Freedom of speech is squashed at the school level everyday.

 

Its a lack of willingness to be involved, plain and simple.

 

Tinker vs Des Moines (1969): First Amendment rights, applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment, are available to teachers and students. It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.

 

You as a student have the right to express your personal and political beliefs in school (see Tinker vs. Des Moines). The Supreme Court has upheld this decision on many occasions, protecting student rights. Your administration does not need to like what you're saying, but as long as it doesn't create a material and substantial disruption in the classroom, you can say it. And the disruption has to actually be created -- fear of disruption is not grounds for censorship.

 

For 4th amendment searches, the Supreme Court allows for locker searches (since the lockers are the property of the school) There must be reasonable suspicion that a law or school rule has been violated and the search must be reasonable in its scope. That is less than probable cause http://www.aclu-il.org/legal/highschool/te...ndseizure.shtml

[southsider2k5]

Apu-Understand that I am not agreeing with it. I don't like it at all. But I see it is a fact of life. Being married to a teacher, I see everything that happens on the inside of the high school here. I don't see students rights as being worth much with the way that the rules are enforced. And when you factor in that with that, these kind of kids are routinely ignored, even with more ablility to intervene than outside of the schools wall, I think the schools have a higher obligation to act on these kind of problems.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Apu-Understand that I am not agreeing with it.  I don't like it at all.  But I see it is a fact of life.  Being married to a teacher, I see everything that happens on the inside of the high school here.  I don't see students rights as being worth much with the way that the rules are enforced.  And when you factor in that with that, these kind of kids are routinely ignored, even with more ablility to intervene than outside of the schools wall, I think the schools have a higher obligation to act on these kind of problems.

 

I know -- I'm just trying to make my "Professional Issues for Teachers" class seem somewhat relevent since this is the first time I've gotten to use any information that I spent the entire semester learning.

 

It'd be great for schools to have all these resources but as you've noted the parents want the teachers and the schools to do all these things -- but at the same time, as is ocurring in my home town right now -- voting down tax referendums to adequately fund schools to meet all these demands.

 

People keep voting with their wallets rather than what's best -- and thats something we both can agree on.

[whitesoxin']

That is terrible. I had not heard about this shooting until after today when a reporter came up to interview me after school asking me if I had heard about it. I guess they want to relate it to my schools slashing in November. I can't imagine what those students went through.

 

For the victims, the school, the town, and all people involved.

[southsider2k5]

I know -- I'm just trying to make my "Professional Issues for Teachers" class seem somewhat relevent since this is the first time I've gotten to use any information that I spent the entire semester learning. 

 

It'd be great for schools to have all these resources but as you've noted the parents want the teachers and the schools to do all these things -- but at the same time, as is ocurring in my home town right now -- voting down tax referendums to adequately fund schools to meet all these demands.

 

People keep voting with their wallets rather than what's best -- and thats something we both can agree on.

 

See to me, the fact that they are involved in some aspects of a students private lives means that they should be involved in the ones that could get people killed. If you have time to open someones backpack to search for drugs, they have the time to prevent the next Dylan Klebold from killing his classmates. Why are the limited resources not being used to prevent kids who are giving off obvious signs, like this kid in MN, some real help? That is what bugs me. Schools have routinely tried to do things that would be clearly be unconstitutional outside of the school walls, but when it comes to a students mental well being, it is avoided like the plague. They have no problem sending home a note that saids Johny needs new glasses, but when Johny talks about shooting up the school, nothing happens. To me that is negligence.

 

And no doubt I agree with you on the last sentence.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Tinker vs Des Moines (1969): First Amendment rights, applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment, are available to teachers and students. It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.

 

You as a student have the right to express your personal and political beliefs in school (see Tinker vs. Des Moines). The Supreme Court has upheld this decision on many occasions, protecting student rights. Your administration does not need to like what you're saying, but as long as it doesn't create a material and substantial disruption in the classroom, you can say it. And the disruption has to actually be created -- fear of disruption is not grounds for censorship.

 

For 4th amendment searches, the Supreme Court allows for locker searches (since the lockers are the property of the school)  There must be reasonable suspicion that a law or school rule has been violated and the search must be reasonable in its scope. That is less than probable cause  http://www.aclu-il.org/legal/highschool/te...ndseizure.shtml

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That seems to imply it's out of the hands of both the workers & the board.

Does trying to discern problem behavior through a brown bag lunch system constitute profiling? Would the recent patriot act circumvent first amendment rights in that regards? If members of the board or workers were constitute policies that were associated with anti-terrorist preventionism would that pass muster by the USSC?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

That seems to imply it's out of the hands of both the workers & the board.

Does trying to discern problem behavior through a brown bag lunch system constitute profiling?  Would the recent patriot act circumvent first amendment rights in that regards?  If members of the board or workers were constitute policies that were associated with anti-terrorist preventionism would that pass muster by the USSC?

 

The US Supreme Court believes that the children have rights that are not circumvented when they walk through the school doors. In Illinois, all teachers are guaranteed a duty-free lunch period since in the past school boards and administrations have tried to have teachers do assloads of work when they were eating so they never got a breather.

 

Plus there is simply not enough funds for qualified mental health professionals to be in schools doing interviews etc. Parents in districts do not like paying extra taxes for education as can be seen in the funding disparities. Teachers who do not know what to look for mental health wise is insane because a) there's not enough time to get through the coursework in a class with the huge amounts of people in the classes B) teachers don't know what to look for nearly as much as mental health professionals and c) students are not going to be honest with teachers...since as most adolescent theories of development show, adolescents more often share with friends their own age rather than parents and authority figures.

[KipWellsFan]

The kid killed his grandfather, took his vest and police car to the school.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...sota050322.html

RED LAKE, MINN. - A Minnesota teenager killed his grandfather, who was a police officer, then strapped on the older man's bulletproof vest and drove his police cruiser to a school on a shooting rampage that left 10 dead, the FBI says.

 

[JUGGERNAUT]

The US Supreme Court believes that the children have rights that are not circumvented when they walk through the school doors.  In Illinois, all teachers are guaranteed a duty-free lunch period since in the past school boards and administrations have tried to have teachers do assloads of work when they were eating so they never got a breather.

 

Plus there is simply not enough funds for qualified mental health professionals to be in schools doing interviews etc.  Parents in districts do not like paying extra taxes for education as can be seen in the funding disparities.  Teachers who do not know what to look for mental health wise is insane because a) there's not enough time to get through the coursework in a class with the huge amounts of people in the classes B) teachers don't know what to look for nearly as much as mental health professionals and c) students are not going to be honest with teachers...since as most adolescent theories of development show, adolescents more often share with friends their own age rather than parents and authority figures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So in your opinion can anything be done to help prevent this?

What about mandatory guidance counseling?

[LosMediasBlancas]

The kid killed his grandfather, took his vest and police car to the school.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...sota050322.html

 

Yeah, that kid wasn't bulls***tin'.

[Texsox]

One initiative being talked about in Texas is moving to learning pods. Smaller more personalized learning approaches. The current system has been in place for decades and decades and does not reflect today's technology, today's careers, and today's adolescent.

 

They want to address three R's.

 

Rigor, making certain high standards are being upheld.

 

Relevance, helping students see how this stuff will connect later. How doing well in 9th grade English will help them down the road.

 

Relationships, along the lines of what Southsider said. If you are in the top 10% of the class, play sports, involved in clubs, teachers and parents know you. If you are in the bottom 10%, being disrespectful, disruptive, and basically flunking out, teachers and administrators know you. If you are in the 70-80% of the kids who arrive each day, do ok, don't get in trouble, no one knows who you are.

 

I've been nominated to be President of my kid's High School PTSO (parents, teachers, student, organization). I am hoping to work towards the second two thirds of this concept.

 

I've read some reports that try to create an A=B causality between some of his Nazi posts and other stuff. I do not believe we will ever know if he was messed up and found the bad influence stuff, or he was ok until he found that stuff. Either way it is a bad mix.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

So in your opinion can anything be done to help prevent this?

What about mandatory guidance counseling?

 

Increase funding for schools. The current status of NCLB underfunds schools (yes, it was an increase in previous funding but they underfunded what it would take to complete all the demands of NCLB)

 

Have peer group counseling.

[Texsox]

Increase funding for schools.  The current status of NCLB underfunds schools (yes, it was an increase in previous funding but they underfunded what it would take to complete all the demands of NCLB)

 

Have peer group counseling.

 

Start with no unfunded mandates. Currently the state can decide on some requirement, forcing schools to do stuff, but the state doesn't have to fund it, they leave that little detail up to the local school board who may or may not have a snowballs chance in South Texas to get a referendum passed.