T R U Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 ide love to have Wily Mo finding someway to get it done would be awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) Ben Davis and Joe Borchard for Ryan Freel and prospect(s) sounds good to me. I don't think they really need a catcher though. Jason LaRue isn't bad at all and Javier Valentin (Jose's brother) is his backup. if they are trying to move OFers why would they want bust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 07:01 PM) Alex, for the record, you know quite a bit about baseball. Next, on this Reds thing ... they are scouting Borchard for sure. Don't ask me why they're scouting Borchard, but they are. If the Reds are scouting Garland, fine, but the Sox will want some sort of pitching in return. They are finally set up 1-5 and despite the emergence of McCarthy they are smart enough to know someone may miss a few starts along the way. KW wants this team built on deep pitching. I cannot see Garland moved for only a position player. Willy Mo Pena ... he may be ready to break out. quickman likes him, and has seen him play quite a bit. Although it pains me internally to do so I will go with his judgement. It's not that the Sox definitely need him, but maybe they feel they want to upgrade. That said, I cannot see the Sox trading for him. Think of what the Sox need ... a backup plan at 3B and yes, they are always interested in pitching. By the way, do the Reds need a catcher? I suspect they do. If the Sox were to trade Garland to the Reds, which I don't see happening in the least bit, it would have to be for a minimum of Edwin Encarnacion, an everyday major league player and a low level prospect. Anything besides that to me would be a bad trade just because Garland is a solid guy who will give you 200 innings relatively cheap and will be a great No. 5 for our club. On the Reds, he'd be right up there at the top of the rotation ahead of Paul Wilson and Eric Milton IMO. In regards to Pena, I get the sense that the Reds will move either him or Kearns if all four outfielders are healthy. I am still not sold on Pena being a solid guy for the long haul, but that's just me. However I do see a lot of the Reds AAA team, so I consider myself to be educated on the upper level of their system. Whichever player yields more talent in return is the guy they move. Griffey will probably out for the year by May though making this a moot point. Good post Jim, always enjoy reading your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 (edited) if they are trying to move OFers why would they want bust? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> JimH said that they were looking at Borchard for some reason. I was just continuing that trend. I still want to know why everyone wants a strikeout master like Willy Mo Pena, especially considering his minor league numbers sucked. Both Brian Anderson and Ryan Sweeney will probably be better outfielders. Edited March 23, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:11 PM) JimH said that they were looking at Borchard for some reason. I was just continuing that trend. I still want to know why everyone wants a strikeout master like Willy Mo Pena, especially considering his minor league numbers sucked. He just turned 23 and is raw as hell. He would be nice to get but not at the expense of garland. Lot's of places predict for pena to really bust out this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 He just turned 23 and is raw as hell. He would be nice to get but not at the expense of garland. Lot's of places predict for pena to really bust out this year. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But we have Brian Anderson and Ryan Sweeney waiting in the wings. We don't need another outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:11 PM) JimH said that they were looking at Borchard for some reason. I was just continuing that trend. I still want to know why everyone wants a strikeout master like Willy Mo Pena, especially considering his minor league numbers sucked. who gives a s*** about minor league numbers he hit 26 HR's last year in 110 games, .259 is a decent average that I could live with but assuming it would magnify if at the Cell.. plus hes 23 It just looks like a ton of potential that I would love us to have, better than Borchard by far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 (edited) who gives a s*** about minor league numbers he hit 26 HR's last year in 110 games, .259 is a decent average that I could live with but assuming it would magnify if at the Cell.. plus hes 23 It just looks like a ton of potential that I would love us to have, better than Borchard by far <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess I'm just not impressed with him. 22 BB, 108 SO, and a .316 OBP is disgusting. I understand potential but his minor league numbers sucked and he appears to just be a free-swinging strikeout master with a ton of power like Borchard. By the way, remember that Pena is from the Dominican so his age is automatically in doubt. Edited March 23, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:19 PM) I guess I'm just not impressed with him. 22 BB, 108 SO, and a .316 OBP is disgusting. I understand potential but his minor league numbers sucked and he appears to just be a free-swinging strikeout master with a ton of power like Borchard. When Borchard hits 26 HR's in 110 games, then make that comparison.. Borchard batted .174 that is what is disgusting, and the fact hes 27 hes also younger than Borchard, and damn, the potential he is showing looks amazing.. I would just love to have him on our team... Dye, Everett, and Timo wont be around in the future.. The jury is out on Rowand, can he put up the same numbers? Anderson and Sweeney are ? because they are just minor leaguers now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 When Borchard hits 26 HR's in 110 games, then make that comparison.. Borchard batted .174 that is what is disgusting, and the fact hes 27 hes also younger than Borchard, and damn, the potential he is showing looks amazing.. I would just love to have him on our team... Dye, Everett, and Timo wont be around in the future.. The jury is out on Rowand, can he put up the same numbers? Anderson and Sweeney are ? because they are just minor leaguers now.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you really believe he is 23, that is. He is from the Dominican afterall. By the way, the jury is out on Pena moreso than Rowand. Rowand owns a career .290 AVG and .342 OBP. Pena owns a career .245 AVG and .302 OBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:19 PM) By the way, remember that Pena is from the Dominican so his age is automatically in doubt. thats true, but we dont know that for sure.. so for the sake of this its just fair to assume hes as old as he says because theres no way anyone knows for sure but him, and maybe his family I dont know.. He showed some real good promise for his age, and Im sure that with more time his numbers would balance out a little more.. .260 is an avg I can accept from someone who will hit 35+ HR's and drive in 100+ Runs steal 10 or more bases.. I guess im just amazed with his potential but to compare him to Borchard is a slap to his face.. Borchard will never cut it, he needs to leave the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I know Pena k'd 14 of his first 29 spring at bats. I expect a regression this year. He'd be a better player if he wasn't rotting ont he big league roster a few years ago instead of playing in AAA. After the events of this week, clearly we are not in a position to trade pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:27 PM) If you really believe he is 23, that is. He is from the Dominican afterall. By the way, the jury is out on Pena moreso than Rowand. Rowand owns a career .290 AVG and .342 OBP. Pena owns a career .245 AVG and .302 OBP. Dont get me wrong, I like Rowand.. im just saying can we automatically expect a .310 AVG and 30 HR's from him.. Rowand is going to be a solid player for us, I was just questioning the .310+ AVG and the power... I would feel more comfortable if I saw him do it again, which I hope he does.. I like Rowand a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 (edited) I know Pena k'd 14 of his first 29 spring at bats. I expect a regression this year. He'd be a better player if he wasn't rotting ont he big league roster a few years ago instead of playing in AAA. After the events of this week, clearly we are not in a position to trade pitching <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. Garland is going to win more games for us than the addition of Willy Mo Pena. Now if we are out of contention at the deadline, then you guys can start the Garland for Pena rumors. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense right now. Edited March 23, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Nothing doing. Not even worth the time of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:31 PM) Agreed. Garland is going to win more games for us than the addition of Willy Mo Pena. Now if we are out of contention at the deadline, then you guys can start the Garland for Pena rumors. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense right now. I didnt say anything about Garland, I was just talking bout Pena and how I would like to have him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 wild ass prediction, this is the year of the Crede. I am not too worried about his spring. I've already said this is the year Mark wins 20+. I feel alot better about my Mark prediction than Crede. I also am liking Garland. It's our 3 & 4 starters that leave me more worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I didnt say anything about Garland, I was just talking bout Pena and how I would like to have him <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 06:31 PM) Agreed. Garland is going to win more games for us than the addition of Willy Mo Pena. Now if we are out of contention at the deadline, then you guys can start the Garland for Pena rumors. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense right now. Even Garland is still only 25 or 26 years old. If we're having a bad season and at the deadline are "building for the future" I'd still like to see Garland in the rotation. His value seems to always be underestimated on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I like Garland. Hes young, he does not make that much money, and at worst he is a .500 sub 5. era pitcher. He also has pitched over 190 innings the last 3 years. Durable young pitchers with good stuff are not something you just give up on. Or atleast thats not what I would do. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 07:26 PM) I like Garland. Hes young, he does not make that much money, and at worst he is a .500 sub 5. era pitcher. He also has pitched over 190 innings the last 3 years. Durable young pitchers with good stuff are not something you just give up on. Or atleast thats not what I would do. SB And if bloody Buehrle didn't get injured we'd have one of the best #5 starters in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 You can always look at it this way. if we have one more Jon Garland on our team any of the last few years, we win the division easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 (edited) Even Garland is still only 25 or 26 years old. If we're having a bad season and at the deadline are "building for the future" I'd still like to see Garland in the rotation. His value seems to always be underestimated on here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like Garland. Hes young, he does not make that much money, and at worst he is a .500 sub 5. era pitcher. He also has pitched over 190 innings the last 3 years. Durable young pitchers with good stuff are not something you just give up on. Or atleast thats not what I would do. SB <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The thing you guys are forgetting is that Garland keeps getting more and more expensive and he is not performing any better than a good 5th starter. He will make $3.4 million this year and will earn even more next year since he's only under a 1-year deal. Is a good 5th starter worth $5 million? There is a time to trade underperforming and somewhat overpriced guys -- when you can get young, cheap talent. Edited March 23, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Since we have Jose and Orlando the next two years, I would have no problem moving Garland for Pena should we fall out of it. However, it is more likely Hernandez would be moved to a contender in that situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Garland would get more in the open market than 3.4million. Pitching is supposed to be our strength, I know McCarthy is the next savior, but if anyone goes down, then whos after McCarthy? If some one over pays greatly for Garland I would make the deal, but that would include a SP prospect. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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