Gang to target vigilante border patrol

[southsider2k5]

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050328-125306-7868r.htm

[Texsox]

I hope they target I94 next. Set up bon fires, road blocks, show everyone their weapons . . .

[LosMediasBlancas]

So, these vigilantes have actually caused violent immigrants to cross the border. I love it.

[Texsox]

So, these vigilantes have actually caused violent immigrants to cross the border. I love it.

 

I wouldn't say caused it.

 

Here is what can happen when US Marines are patrolling the border, imagine what vigilantes will do. Remember, this is my backyard, an area I take the Scouts, camp, and play. Imagine these vigilantes in the local forest preserve.

 

Linkage here

 

On May 20, eighteen-year-old high school student Esequiel Hernandez Jr. was shot and killed near his house by the leader of a U.S. Marine Corps patrol on an anti-drug operation near the U.S.-Mexico border in Redford, Texas. Hernandez was tending goats about a mile from his home when the shooting occurred. The incident is the first time that military forces on anti-drug duty have shot and killed a U.S. citizen. After the incident, border patrol activities by the military were suspended (Thaddeus Herrick, "Marine on anti-drug duty shoots, kills student," Houston Chronicle, May 22, 1997, p. 37A; "Border Drug Patrols Are Halted After Killing," New York Times, July 11, 1997, p. A17).

MARINES SAY TEENAGER SHOT AT THEM, BUT AUTOPSY RESULTS DON'T MATCH STORY

 

Military officials claim Hernandez inexplicably fired his antique .22-caliber rifle twice at four Marines, and was preparing to shoot a third time when he was fatally shot in the side with an M-16 combat rifle. The soldier named in the shooting is Cpl. Clemente Banuelos. The Marine patrol was on loan to the Border Patrol from Camp Pendleton (CA), and was participating in operations under Joint Task Force-6, which runs military anti-narcotics efforts on the Border. By law, military personnel involved in domestic law enforcement are not allowed to search, seize, arrest or confront a suspect. Military involvement is strictly limited to activities such as surveillance and intelligence (10 USCA Sec. 375). Soldiers are allowed to return fire in self-defense.

 

Neighbors said Hernandez used his rifle to ward off coyotes, and for target practice, and suggest that is what the teenager thought he was doing if he fired any shots. "Personally, I don't think this kid ever saw them, by the indication my Rangers are telling me," said Captain Barry Caver, spokesman for the Texas Rangers, the state law enforcement agency that is investigating the killing. The Marines were heavily camouflaged, and were trained to conceal themselves so as not to be detected. The shooting appears to have taken place from a distance of 375 to 600 feet (James Pinkerton, "Ranger says Marines' account doesn't `exactly jibe,'" Houston Chronicle, May 24, 1997, p. 18A).

 

Family and neighbors say Hernandez was law-abiding and respectful and would never have knowingly shot at people, much less soldiers. Officials found no evidence that the teenager was involved in illegal activities, and an autopsy showed that he did not have any drugs or alcohol in his system. Before he was killed, Hernandez was studying for his drivers license, and dreamed of going to college, working as a wildlife ranger, or possibly joining the Marines.

[Flash Tizzle]

So, these vigilantes have actually caused violent immigrants to cross the border. I love it.

 

What exactly is to "love" about violent criminals targeting our citizens? United States government doesn't appear intent on addressing this issue.

[Texsox]

What exactly is to "love" about violent criminals targeting our citizens?  United States government doesn't appear intent on addressing this issue.

We are trading one set of problems for another. I'm certain you wouldn't mind coming home late at night and bumping into Rambo and his rifle determining if you were someone he hated, or ok to pass.

 

A well trained Marine killed an innocent kid, imagine what these vigilantes are capable of? Already they have harrased innocent Mexican-Americans. Pick a street in Chicago, grab a rifle, and detain every Mexican you see and ask them for credentials. Why is it ok in a wilderness area and not in the city? I am certain there are more than a few illegals in Chicago, let's put these guys on patrol.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

We are trading one set of problems for another. I'm certain you wouldn't mind coming home late at night and bumping into Rambo and his rifle determining if you were someone he hated, or ok to pass.

 

A well trained Marine killed an innocent kid, imagine what these vigilantes are capable of? Already they have harrased innocent Mexican-Americans. Pick a street in Chicago, grab a rifle, and detain every Mexican you see and ask them for credentials. Why is it ok in a wilderness area and not in the city? I am certain there are more than a few illegals in Chicago, let's put these guys on patrol.

 

Tex, read the article: No rifles. Just a liscenced handgun if you have one. /dripping with sarcasm

 

This is really a problem that the US government needs to address but I fear that neither party will do anything to avoid losing votes from the Latino bloc of voters.

[Texsox]

These guys are embarassing to southern rednecks. To some Mexican-Americans this is similar to the KKK, except these guys can wrap themselves up in the US flag and lots of Americans buy the act.

 

Ask yourself do you want a bunch of guys with Southern Stars and Bars flags riding around in the back of pickups patrollling your neighborhood?

[LosMediasBlancas]

These guys are embarassing to southern rednecks. To some Mexican-Americans this is similar to the KKK, except these guys can wrap themselves up in the US flag and lots of Americans buy the act.

 

Ask yourself do you want a bunch of guys with Southern Stars and Bars flags riding around in the back of pickups patrollling your neighborhood?

 

 

That was exactly my point Tex, these guys can try to spin it however they want, to me they're racist clowns.

No, of course the supposed threat from these gangs is not funny. What is ironic, is that these vigilantes are actually making the situation worse.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

These guys are embarassing to southern rednecks. To some Mexican-Americans this is similar to the KKK, except these guys can wrap themselves up in the US flag and lots of Americans buy the act.

 

Ask yourself do you want a bunch of guys with Southern Stars and Bars flags riding around in the back of pickups patrollling your neighborhood?

 

 

HORSEs***!

 

 

That was exactly my point Tex, these guys can try to spin it however they want, to me they're racist clowns.

No, of course the supposed threat from these gangs is not funny. What is ironic, is that these vigilantes are actually making the situation worse

.

 

and HORSEs***.

 

 

You make these people out to be racist redneck fascists etc, etc but that's OH so typical of the left's reaction anytime anyone wants to do something about the problem of illegal immigration. I'm so sick and tired of hearing people yell racism every time someone wants to do something about this problem.

 

 

What these guys are are a bunch of concerned citizens who are tired of the federal governments inaction ( and LCR stole my thunder on this one ) on the border because of fear of alienating the latino vote. This problem has spanned many previous administrations and I think it's time Bush spent some of his "political capital" addressing this very real problem. The guest worker program is a start but there has to be some sort of a stick to go along with that carrot.

 

You guys love to jump all over the right when we label left wing anti-war protestors "hippies" "commies" and the like but you are doing the very same thing yourself now that the shoe is on the other foot. This is, indeed, a form of protest whether you choose to believe it or not.

[LosMediasBlancas]

HORSEs***!

.

 

and HORSEs***.

You make these people out to be racist redneck fascists etc, etc  but that's OH so typical of the left's reaction anytime anyone wants to do something about the problem of illegal immigration.  I'm so sick and tired of hearing people yell racism every time someone wants to do something about this problem.

What these guys are are a bunch of concerned citizens who are tired of the federal governments inaction ( and LCR stole my thunder on this one ) on the border because of fear of alienating the latino vote.  This problem has spanned many previous administrations and I think it's time Bush spent some of his "political capital" addressing this very real problem.  The guest worker program is a start but there has to be some sort of a stick to go along with that carrot. 

 

You guys love to jump all over the right when we label left wing anti-war protestors "hippies" "commies" and the like but you are doing the very same thing yourself now that the shoe is on the other foot.  This is, indeed, a form of protest whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

Do you not believe that these vigilante's motivation is at least partly racially motivated? If not, then I imagine pretty soon we'll see plenty of white Europeans being targeted by these vigilantes. After all, plenty of Europeans still enter into this country illegally. Why don't they come out and flat out tell us what the deal is, instead of hiding behind labels like "concerned citizens".

As someone once said, 'It's bad enough you're a racist, don't be a pussy too'.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Do you not believe that these vigilante's motivation is at least partly racially motivated?  If not, then I imagine pretty soon we'll see plenty of white Europeans being targeted by these vigilantes.  After all, plenty of Europeans still enter into this country illegally.  Why don't they come out and flat out tell us what the deal is, instead of hiding behind labels like "concerned citizens".

As someone once said, 'It's bad enough you're a racist, don't be a pussy too'.

 

 

Just for laughs why dont you look up some statistics.............

 

...........like these............

 

http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCent...fm?ID=1183&c=13

 

...............from the INS and Census bureau.

 

If it wasn't obvious that nearly all of our problems with illegal immigration come from our southern border then this makes it crystal clear.

 

 

Once again. Blindly labeling people as racists because they want something done about a really serious problem in this country is the wrong answer. If the Bush Administration would do something serious about this problem then maybe these redneck racist fascists would fold up their rebel flags go home, clean their guns & lynch a few n*****s instead.

 

:rolly

Edited March 29, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I do think that *some* of the people engaging in this are ignorant racist twats just as some people who are involved in anti-war stuff etc. are ignorant slogan chanting twats that can't justify their position to save their lives.

 

I do think border security is something that needs to be addressed -- especially in a time when borders/imports are porous as all Hell while we're being told we need to have our civil liberties curtailed to "stop terrorism".

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I do think that *some* of the people engaging in this are ignorant racist twats just as some people who are involved in anti-war stuff etc. are ignorant slogan chanting twats that can't justify their position to save their lives.

 

I do think border security is something that needs to be addressed -- especially in a time when borders/imports are porous as all Hell while we're being told we need to have our civil liberties curtailed to "stop terrorism".

 

 

HOLY s***! We agree on something!!!!!

 

*cringing in anticipation of a lightning strike*

[SleepyWhiteSox]

maybe these redneck racist fascists would fold up their rebel flags go home, clean their guns & lynch a few n*****s instead.

 

:rolly

 

Green or not, that's some f***ed up s***...

 

Anyways, why deny racial undertones? Let's not pretend that racism isn't alive and well today...

 

 

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door! But only if they're white!"

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Green or not, that's some f***ed up s***...

 

Anyways, why deny racial undertones?  Let's not pretend that racism isn't alive and well today...

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!  But only if they're white!"

 

I dont have a problem with LEGAL immigration, you know, the type where we know who they are, whether they are criminals or of they're infected with some disease or something.

 

We can't have thousands of people running across the border every day like that. Can't you see? California alone spends a couple of BILLION dollars on social services for these people every year for people who aren't citizens of this country. It's just maddening to me the thought process of you people.

 

Lets take a look at what these evil vigilantes are doing.

 

 

They are staking out a 20 mile stretch of the Arizona border with Mexico. Their stated purpose is to observe the border and if they spot illegals crossing then they will report it to the proper authorities and thats it. Its not like they're out there hunting them down and killing them for chrissakes.

 

BTW my little comment in green is no less silly or f***ed up than your type branding this group as a bunch of racist rednecks.

Edited March 29, 2005 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[YASNY]

Somebody is trying to bring attention to a problem, to get the focus of the nation on it. I don't know how someone can automatically jump to the conclusion that this is racially motivated.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Somebody is trying to bring attention to a problem, to get the focus of the nation on it.  I don't know how someone can automatically jump to the conclusion that this is racially motivated.

 

Like I said before anytime someone speaks out against or proposes action to deal with illegal immigration they are immediately branded as racist by the left. I think that's just rediculous.

[Texsox]

Like I said before anytime someone speaks out against or proposes action to deal with illegal immigration they are immediately branded as racist by the left.  I think that's just rediculous.

 

Nuke, look at these guys. They talk about rounding up all the Mexicans. There are a lot of legal immigrants along the border. Are you saying it would be ok for these vigilantes to detain US citizens at gun point? How would everyone here like guys driving around your neighborhoods detaining anyone on your street?

 

I guess all that training we provide to Border Patrol, Customs, and other law enforcement agencies isn't necessary. We'll just send these guys.

 

As far as the racist comments, of course it doesn't apply in all cases, but visit one of their websites, look at the pictures, and make your own conclusion.

 

Like I said, anytime some wacko group is doing something the GOPerheads like, they defend them no matter what. I think that's just ridiculous. (but hey, I've got a spell checker )

 

One of the factors between legal and illegal immigration between Canada and Mexico is we have different rules for each country. Canadians are allowed freer and longer access to the US. Which is one reason terrorists came in through Canada, not Mexico.

[Texsox]

Somebody is trying to bring attention to a problem, to get the focus of the nation on it.  I don't know how someone can automatically jump to the conclusion that this is racially motivated.

 

YASNY, how safe would you feel with a bunch of guys in pickups started patrolling your backyard looking for something illegal? Should they be allowed to detain US citizens? Should they be trained at all?

 

There are better ways of handling this.

 

Live on the border for a while and I'll tell you why we jump to the conclusion. We can spot these guys a mile away.

 

What a surprise the groups are all white. Not a single black guy, not a single Mexican-American, not a single Asian, Not a single American-Indian, not a single Israeli.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

AHHH Ask and I shall recieve.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7317822/

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, look at these guys. They talk about rounding up all the Mexicans. There are a lot of legal immigrants along the border. Are you saying it would be ok for these vigilantes to detain US citizens at gun point? How would everyone here like guys driving around your neighborhoods detaining anyone on your street?

 

I guess all that training we provide to Border Patrol, Customs, and other law enforcement agencies isn't necessary. We'll just send these guys.

 

As far as the racist comments, of course it doesn't apply in all cases, but visit one of their websites, look at the pictures, and make your own conclusion. 

 

Like I said, anytime some wacko group is doing something the GOPerheads like, they defend them no matter what. I think that's just ridiculous. (but hey, I've got a spell checker  )

 

One of the factors between legal and illegal immigration between Canada and Mexico is we have different rules for each country. Canadians are allowed freer and longer access to the US. Which is one reason terrorists came in through Canada, not Mexico.

 

 

What did I say before. Their goal is to observe and report any illegal border crossings they see to the proper authorities. That's it. They're not going to round up anybody.

[TheBigHurt35]

You make these people out to be racist redneck fascists etc, etc  but that's OH so typical of the left's reaction anytime anyone wants to do something about the problem of illegal immigration.  I'm so sick and tired of hearing people yell racism every time someone wants to do something about this problem.

What these guys are are a bunch of concerned citizens who are tired of the federal governments inaction ( and LCR stole my thunder on this one ) on the border because of fear of alienating the latino vote.  This problem has spanned many previous administrations and I think it's time Bush spent some of his "political capital" addressing this very real problem.  The guest worker program is a start but there has to be some sort of a stick to go along with that carrot. 

 

You guys love to jump all over the right when we label left wing anti-war protestors "hippies" "commies" and the like but you are doing the very same thing yourself now that the shoe is on the other foot.  This is, indeed, a form of protest whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

 

Excellent post.

 

I do think that *some* of the people engaging in this are ignorant racist twats just as some people who are involved in anti-war stuff etc. are ignorant slogan chanting twats that can't justify their position to save their lives.

 

I do think border security is something that needs to be addressed -- especially in a time when borders/imports are porous as all Hell while we're being told we need to have our civil liberties curtailed to "stop terrorism".

 

I do not support vigilantes patrolling our border, but I'd rather they do it than NOBODY. Our own government is (and has been) failing us miserably on this issue. I wonder how many al Qaeda operatives have already snuck into the country from Mexico. Unfortunately, it's going to take one of them to detonate a nuclear weapon in downtown LA before our government does a damn thing about this.

Edited March 29, 2005 by TheBigHurt35

[Texsox]

What did I say before.  Their goal is to observe and report any illegal border crossings they see to the proper authorities.  That's it.  They're not going to round up anybody.

 

They have already started in some cases. There are a few groups so not all can be branded with the same iron, but there are many reports of these guys riding right up on people, brandishing weapons, and demanding to know why they are there. Scary stuff.

 

We wouldn't put up with it in Downers Grove, why in my neighborhood?

[Texsox]

    Anti-Immigration

Cops, neighbors fire back at Arizona's border vigilantes

 

 

 

 

Things are heating up for anti-immigrant vigilante groups near Arizona's southern border, where key figures found themselves jailed, shot and homeless this fall.

 

On Sept. 15, Casey Nethercott, 37, and associate Kalen Riddle, 22, were stopped by federal agents in the parking lot of a Safeway store near Douglas, Ariz. Authorities had a warrant for Nethercott's arrest based on a tense stand-off with border patrol agents two weeks prior, but the arrest did not go smoothly. Riddle was shot and critically injured while being detained, while Nethercott ended up charged with assault on a federal officer.

 

Nethercott, a former associate of the paramilitary anti-immigrant group Ranch Rescue, had been running an armed border militia called Arizona Guard on ranch property he owned near Douglas. He was convicted on a weapons charge in June, and also awaits retrial for allegedly pistol-whipping a Salvadoran couple in Texas in 2003 during a Ranch Rescue operation.

 

Nethercott had already been ordered to pay $350,000 in damages as a result of a civil suit brought by the Southern Poverty Law Center on behalf of the Salvadoran immigrants.

 

Several miles west of Douglas, another border vigilante came out on the losing end of a dispute with neighbors. American Border Patrol's Glenn Spencer, a long-time anti-immigration rabble-rouser in California, moved to the border region in August 2002, setting up operations in a columned ranch-style home in the upscale Pueblo del Sol subdivision as he built up his Web site and patrol operations in the area.

 

Relations with his neighbors were soured by an August 2003 incident in which a jumpy Spencer repeatedly fired a .357 rifle, hitting a neighbor's garage, after hearing what he described as "suspicious" noises in his back yard. In January 2004 Spencer pleaded guilty to a charge of endangerment, and was subsequently fined $2,500 and sentenced to a year's probation.

 

But it wasn't just Spencer's quick draw that irked neighbors. In Spencer's neighborhood association, the operation of a home business is prohibited. The homeowners filed a complaint, and a preliminary injunction against Spencer was granted in September.

 

Although Spencer maintained that most of his hate group's business was conducted from rented office space in nearby Sierra Vista, he chose not to fight the injunction and announced through his attorney that he would be leaving the property by the end of October.

 

Spencer says he'll relocate to 10 acres near the Mexican border, and he's been soliciting funds from supporters to put an airstrip and RV hookups on his new compound.