Gang to target vigilante border patrol

[YASNY]

YASNY, how safe would you feel with a bunch of guys in pickups started patrolling your backyard looking for something illegal? Should they be allowed to detain US citizens? Should they be trained at all?

 

There are better ways of handling this.

 

Live on the border for a while and I'll tell you why we jump to the conclusion. We can spot these guys a mile away.

 

What a surprise the groups are all white. Not a single black guy, not a single Mexican-American, not a single Asian, Not a single American-Indian, not a single Israeli.

 

Maybe there is some justification for the point that this racially motivated, which is why I indirectly asked the question. As for the rest of your post, I never addressed any of those points in my post, as I did not disagree with you.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Tex. how is this "hate group" and their actions relevant to the group in question in this thread?

 

Like I said before. Their purpose is to observe and report and thats it. Maybe the media and the left should spend more time looking at real hate groups in that area instead of giving these guys all this negative press.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

They have already started in some cases. There are a few groups so not all can be branded with the same iron, but there are many reports of these guys riding right up on people, brandishing weapons, and demanding to know why they are there. Scary stuff.

 

We wouldn't put up with it in Downers Grove, why in my neighborhood?

 

 

There aren't any illegal border crossings in Downers Grove are there?

 

When you see thousands of illegal aliens trying to cross the Tri State tollway en-masse then you can make that comparison.

[southsider2k5]

I'd be interested to hear Tex's solution for fixing the problem of illegal immigration, since I think he is the only one who lives down there.

 

Myself, I firmly believe that we need to make it impossible for illegal immigrants to be granted amnesty and/or citizenship, ever. I also would make anyone who is convicted of an illegal border crossing permantly unable to take part in a guest worker program (which I also believe needs to really be done).

 

I believe that action encourages the "just get there" mentality that has people risking their lives daily to cross the border. If we remove all possibility of reward from someones illegal actions it would lessen the possibility of it happening. Also if we soften the chance of getting here legally, either through immigration or a guest worker program, people would be more apt to try the legal route.

 

And finally on the race issue, people are simply playing the race card ala Jesse Jackson, way too easily here. The comparison was made to Canada, and I ask how many illegal crossings were made on the US/Canadian border? The problem isn't the same, and doesn't need to be addressed the sameway. It has nothing to do with what country is invovled.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I'd be interested to hear Tex's solution for fixing the problem of illegal immigration, since I think he is the only one who lives down there.

 

Myself, I firmly believe that we need to make it impossible for illegal immigrants to be granted amnesty and/or citizenship, ever.  I also would make anyone who is convicted of an illegal border crossing permantly unable to take part in a guest worker program (which I also believe needs to really be done).

 

I believe that action encourages the "just get there" mentality that has people risking their lives daily to cross the border.  If we remove all possibility of reward from someones illegal actions it would lessen the possibility of it happening. Also if we soften the chance of getting here legally, either through immigration or a guest worker program, people would be more apt to try the legal route.

 

And finally on the race issue, people are simply playing the race card ala Jesse Jackson, way too easily here.  The comparison was made to Canada, and I ask how many illegal crossings were made on the US/Canadian border?  The problem isn't the same, and doesn't need to be addressed the sameway.  It has nothing to do with what country is invovled.

 

 

[LosMediasBlancas]

If the gov. really wanted to stop the flow of undocumented workers in this country, it could probably do a better job than it is now. The question or isue is: why won't they? I think we all know it's partly for economic reasons and also for votes.

Vigilantes? Why not work within the system for change instead of resorting to being vigilates who target certain groups of people.

Also, this type of immigration affects all of us to some extent, even if we don't have a border near us, because many of these people will find work all over the country. The young women who clean our offices are from Eastern Europe and undocumented workers. I guess I should expect them to get hauled off pretty soon......and I should be OK with it.

[Texsox]

There aren't any illegal border crossings in Downers Grove are there?

 

When you see thousands of illegal aliens trying to cross the Tri State tollway en-masse then you can make that comparison.

 

Where the hell are they going? Are you in favor of giving them a free pass if they can get to Illinois? Aren't they just as illegal in Illinois as in Arizona or Texas?

 

What we need is equality for visitors from Mexico as well as Canada. Wealthy Mexicans spend a lot of money vacationing and shopping in the US. They should receive the same welcome that Canadians receive. Most of these people cross legally. BTW, Mexicans are given two levels of crossing approvals. One allows them within 40-50 miles of the border. This enables them to cross for shopping, visiting relatives and doing the touristy things. Mexico allows US citizens about the same level of welcome. It isn't until you cross into the interior that you need special documentation.

 

Now for those terrible illegals we need to stop. What are they trying to do? Open up a Dental office? Sell stocks? Pass their CPA exam? Nope, they are looking for manual labor jobs that no one else wants.

 

We should have a guest worker program. You think gas prices slowed our economy, wait until our food increases 15-25%. From the fields, to the produce sheds, to the packing plants, no one wants these jobs at the prevailing wages. Look at what sanitation crews earn picking up garbage, and think even higher wages until you have enough people to do that work. How much would it take for anyone here to spend 9 months out of the year, living out of your car, moving from town to town, following the harvest, bending over in the fields? Be grateful we have workers close by that are willing to do that.

 

We also need to separate vigilantes from legal law enforcement and constructive means. We have a very large LEGAL Mexican-American population on the border. Why should they live in fear of a bunch of yahoos with sidearms, accosting them and questioning them? Most of these groups are not constructive. Can you tell a legal resident, a non-resident alien, and an illegal? Saying these guys can be effective is an insult to the highly trained Border Patrol agents that spend over 6-months in training before hitting the field. Out side of the CIA, the Border Patrol has the highest level of training of any law enforcement agency in the US.

 

The best analogy I can give you is if the Latin Kings decided that there was too much violence at New Trier High School and they are going to start patrolling the school in full gang colors. That is the image these guys have with Americans who live on the border. These aren't the local PTA members on a neighborhood watch.

[Texsox]

And finally on the race issue, people are simply playing the race card ala Jesse Jackson, way too easily here.  The comparison was made to Canada, and I ask how many illegal crossings were made on the US/Canadian border?  The problem isn't the same, and doesn't need to be addressed the sameway.  It has nothing to do with what country is invovled.

 

Why is LEGAL immigration treated differently between Canadians and Mexicans? Canadians are allowed easier and longer visits than Mexicans.

[southsider2k5]

Why is LEGAL immigration treated differently between Canadians and Mexicans? Canadians are allowed easier and longer visits than Mexicans.

 

Legal immigration is different because of the amount of illegal immigration. It isn't a concern on the northern border, so the rules don't need to be as stringent. Heck if you want an anaolgy, that's some states require helmets on motorcycles, but not in cars. They are both motor vehicles, but the different dynamics require different things.

[Queen Prawn]

Why is LEGAL immigration treated differently between Canadians and Mexicans? Canadians are allowed easier and longer visits than Mexicans.

 

I don't know what then regiment is today to become a legal resident, but my dad came to this country 10/1971. He had to wait 6 years before he could legally come here. Also, he had to have a sponsor and if that sponsor didn't show up (which happened to my dad, thankfully his other uncle picked him up), he would be sent back to restart the process.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know what then regiment is today to become a legal resident, but my dad came to this country 10/1971.  He had to wait 6 years before he could legally come here.  Also, he had to have a sponsor and if that sponsor didn't show up (which happened to my dad, thankfully his other uncle picked him up), he would be sent back to restart the process.

 

Where from, if you don't mind me asking?

[Queen Prawn]

Where from, if you don't mind me asking?

 

Ireland (and yes there are many ways to get here illegally from there - some of Brian's family got here that way around the time my dad got here)

[Texsox]

Legal immigration is different because of the amount of illegal immigration.  It isn't a concern on the northern border, so the rules don't need to be as stringent.  Heck if you want an anaolgy, that's some states require helmets on motorcycles, but not in cars.  They are both motor vehicles, but the different dynamics require different things.

 

A family from Canada can spend 6 months travelling the US and a family from Mexico only 90 days. Because if illegal immigration? What? So if someone from a country commits a crime, we punish the whole country?

 

BTW, it's costing American business billions in tourism dollars as wealthy Mexicans travel to Australia, Europe, and other destinations.

[southsider2k5]

A family from Canada can spend 6 months travelling the US and a family from Mexico only 90 days. Because if illegal immigration? What? So if someone from a country commits a crime, we punish the whole country?

 

BTW, it's costing American business billions in tourism dollars as wealthy Mexicans travel to Australia, Europe, and other destinations.

 

Its not just someONE. If it were someONE, no one would really care. How many MILLIONS of people are here illegally from Mexico and the rest of Central and South America? How many Canadians are here illegally. You can't discount the problem by minimizing it.

 

And is it really costing the US tax dollars? If you want to be technical about it, the loss of income taxes not paid by undocumented workers has to be a huge drain on our economy, not to mention the social services that are being provided to people while committing an illegal activity. Those monies could easily be going to US citizens to provide them better health care, education, social security, better roads, heck anything you want. Australia, Europe and the rest aren't struggling with illegal immigrants from Mexico, so they are much more apt to let them in their country. Try being an African of some sort and getting into Europe, and you'll find just as much zenophobia exsists.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Myself, I firmly believe that we need to make it impossible for illegal immigrants to be granted amnesty and/or citizenship, ever.

 

Why???

 

So all hard-working illegal immigrants having a positive effect on the economy while working hard in the true American spirit should be deported?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Now for those terrible illegals we need to stop. What are they trying to do? Open up a Dental office? Sell stocks? Pass their CPA exam? Nope, they are looking for manual labor jobs that no one else wants. 

 

 

 

 

[LosMediasBlancas]

Not all people working here illegally do not pay taxes. I know FOR SURE that many of them obtain fake SS #s and work for many years. Taxes get taken out of their checks, just like everyone else. Many of them even buy cars and homes. I don't know the details of how they do it, but it does happen. You'd think it would be pretty easy for the gov. to find these people and deport them. Hmmm, wonder why that doesn't happen?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

 

s***, I read that wrong...

 

Those that are hard-working do have the opportunities to do all of those things, and I see it as a positive.

[southsider2k5]

Why???

 

So all hard-working illegal immigrants having a positive effect on the economy while working hard in the true American spirit should be deported?

 

Why should a person who commits a felony be rewarded?

[Texsox]

Its not just someONE.  If it were someONE, no one would really care.  How many MILLIONS of people are here illegally from Mexico and the rest of Central and South America?  How many Canadians are here illegally.  You can't discount the problem by minimizing it.

 

And is it really costing the US tax dollars?  If you want to be technical about it, the loss of income taxes not paid by undocumented workers has to be a huge drain on our economy, not to mention the social services that are being provided to people while  committing an illegal activity.  Those monies could easily be going to US citizens to provide them better health care, education, social security, better roads, heck anything you want.  Australia, Europe and the rest aren't struggling with illegal immigrants from Mexico, so they are much more apt to let them in their country.  Try being an African of some sort and getting into Europe, and you'll find just as much zenophobia exsists.

 

You are missing my point. Canadians wanting to take an extended vacation in the US are treated different than Mexicans. That doesn't seem fair.

 

Which will harm the economy more, $2.00 gas or a 15% increase in the food bills? Like it or not, or agricultural economy is running strong because of illegal labor. We need to find a way to utilize this labor pool in a legal manner, not try and just cut off the border and do without. That it terribly short sided.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

You are missing my point. Canadians wanting to take an extended vacation in the US are treated different than Mexicans. That doesn't seem fair.

 

Which will harm the economy more, $2.00 gas or a 15% increase in the food bills? Like it or not, or agricultural economy is running strong because of illegal labor. We need to find a way to utilize this labor pool in a legal manner, not try and just cut off the border and do without. That it terribly short sided.

 

I hope you mean that illegal immigrants should be able to work jobs they are most qualified for and not just relegated to the manual labor than most people want...

 

I'll assume you did. The last time we placed people into field work while only providing the bare essentials...

[LosMediasBlancas]

Why should a person who commits a felony be rewarded?

 

I see your point, but we already 'reward' lazy American asses with welfare and aid.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Ireland (and yes there are many ways to get here illegally from there - some of Brian's family got here that way around the time my dad got here)

 

Thank you and many still do. We still give out student and tourist visas, which are pretty much based on the honor system. "do you promise to go back to your country of origin within 90 days"? Once you decide to stay, there is very little they can do about it.

[Texsox]

I hope you mean that illegal immigrants should be able to work jobs they are most qualified for and not just relegated to the manual labor than most people want...

 

I'll assume you did.  The last time we placed people into field work while only providing the bare essentials...

 

Actually a guest worker program could target only industries with a verified need for the labor. It is similar to our H1A technical visa program that limits the number of tech visa offered. Currently we only protect the higher wage jobs with this type of program.

 

So we could have our cake and protect jobs at the same time.

 

And I agree with Southsider, some of the GOP Amnesty programs beginning with Reagan and on up with Bush seem to reward the wrong behavior. I guess we don't have the stomaches to split fathers from their children, moms from their babies, brothers from their sisters. I guess the GOP is family friendly

Edited March 29, 2005 by Texsox

[southsider2k5]

You are missing my point. Canadians wanting to take an extended vacation in the US are treated different than Mexicans. That doesn't seem fair.

 

Which will harm the economy more, $2.00 gas or a 15% increase in the food bills? Like it or not, or agricultural economy is running strong because of illegal labor. We need to find a way to utilize this labor pool in a legal manner, not try and just cut off the border and do without. That it terribly short sided.

 

If you actually go back and read what I posted, I am very much in favor of streamlined immigration and/or a big expanded guest worker program.

I have no problem with legal means being utilized. I do have a problem going for my tax dollars supporting felonious activity. Why should we reward illegal activity, that doesn't make any sense. Especially when the jobs they are taking are most likely being taken away from from new immigrants who have historically worked the least desirable jobs. What kind of reward is following the law then? What kind of message are we sending?