first place bulls?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Duhon is the better point guard.

 

Nope.

[BobDylan]

Duhon is the better point guard. He is exactly what you want from a point guard. Pass first, unselfish, always finds the open man, drives well, and defends. Hinrich has the advantage on him defensively because of his ability to guard much taller guards.

 

He's a past first guard because his offensive skills are basically non-existant. I'm much happier with Hinrich and Gordon than I am Duhon and Hinrich/Gordon.

[hammerhead johnson]

Duhon is the best point guard on the Bulls roster. This does not mean that he is a better player than either Hinrich or Gordon, all things considered. What this means is that Hinrich and Gordon are not cut out for the point. Don't get it twisted.

[hammerhead johnson]

He's a past first guard because his offensive skills are basically non-existant. I'm much happier with Hinrich and Gordon than I am Duhon and Hinrich/Gordon.

 

Not merely a pass-first guard. He is a point guard. They are supposed to set everyone else up. They are the table setters, not the home run hitters. Exceptions include bizarre players such as Steve Francis, the sometimes PG Allen Iverson, etc. They're SGs in PG bodies. Lost souls.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Duhon is the best point guard on the Bulls roster.  This does not mean that he is a better player than either Hinrich or Gordon, all things considered.  What this means is that Hinrich and Gordon are not cut out for the point.  Don't get it twisted.

 

Nope. Hinrich is the better point guard. It was already stated above, Duhon has no offense. A true point guard also needs to be able to score to keep defenses honest. Penetrating, hitting jump shots, etc...it's all part of being a point guard too. When on the court you have to be able to efficiently contribute in all of these facets of the game (Except Chandler...He just has to rebound). You're mistaking having to pass out of necessity because of a lack of an offensive presence with being a true point guard.

[hammerhead johnson]

Nope.  Hinrich is the better point guard.  It was already stated above, Duhon has no offense.  A true point guard also needs to be able to score to keep defenses honest.  Penetrating, hitting jump shots, etc...it's all part of being a point guard too.  When on the court you have to be able to efficiently contribute in all of these facets of the game (Except Chandler...He just has to rebound).  You're mistaking having to pass out of necessity because of a lack of an offensive presence with being a true point guard.

 

Okay, then maybe one day we'll get a point guard who can do some things on offense. At the moment, we don't have one. Hinrich is an SG. That's beyond obvious at this point. Perhaps he could start at PG on a team that isn't as reliant on one man to bring the ball up the court and set up the attack, like the Sacramento Kings or the Philadelphia 76ers.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I can't even believe you guys are turning this into an actual discussion....

 

Bulls fans UNDERrating Kirk???

 

Hinrich-6.7 assists per game

Duhon-5.0 assists per game

 

Almost TWO more assists per game while playing the shooting guard position. Enough said.

 

Stop kidding yourselves, Duhon isn't more than a backup.

[hammerhead johnson]

I can't even believe you guys are turning this into an actual discussion....

 

Bulls fans UNDERrating Kirk???

 

Hinrich-6.7 assists per game

Duhon-5.0 assists per game

 

Almost TWO more assists per game while playing the shooting guard position.  Enough said. 

 

Stop kidding yourselves, Duhon isn't more than a backup.

 

I don't care about the 1.7 differential in assists. Fact is, Duhon is a rookie, and PG is said to be the hardest position to learn in the NBA, so

 

I'd say that he's doing a pretty damn good job of it off the bat. He can bring the ball up the court with grace, he can distribute the ball, he can play defense, he doesn't turn it over that much, etc. With the exception of shooting, he has done very well, and you best believe that many teams will be interested in him this offseason.

 

And again, who is underrating Kirk? All I'm saying is that he's not a PG.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

2004-05 Regular Season Assists Per Game

Player G AST APG

1. Steve Nash (Phoenix Suns) 63 725 11.5

2. Brevin Knight (Charlotte Bobcats) 53 468 8.8

3. Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks) 68 553 8.1

4. Jason Kidd (New Jersey Nets) 54 430 8.0

5. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers) 63 493 7.8

6. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 65 477 7.3

7. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 66 459 7.0

8. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat) 67 463 6.9

9. Rafer Alston (Toronto Raptors) 67 450 6.7

9. Kirk Hinrich (Chicago Bulls) 65 435 6.7

9. Mike Bibby (Sacramento Kings) 70 468 6.7

12. Andre Miller (Denver Nuggets) 68 440 6.5

13. Maurice Williams (Milwaukee Bucks) 67 412 6.1

13. Tony Parker (San Antonio Spurs) 69 424 6.1

13. Speedy Claxton (New Orleans Hornets) 58 353 6.1

16. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons) 67 400 6.0

16. Gary Payton (Boston Celtics) 66 394 6.0

18. Luke Ridnour (Seattle SuperSonics) 69 404 5.9

19. Jason Williams (Memphis Grizzlies) 58 337 5.8

19. Tracy McGrady (Houston Rockets) 67 387 5.8

21. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 71 398 5.6

21. Rick Brunson (Los Angeles Clippers) 68 380 5.6

23. Damon Stoudamire (Portland Trail Blazers) 67 369 5.5

24. Jeff McInnis (Cleveland Cavaliers) 64 340 5.3

24. Jason Terry (Dallas Mavericks) 68 361 5.3

24. Gilbert Arenas (Washington Wizards) 66 348 5.3

27. Jason Hart (Charlotte Bobcats) 62 318 5.1

28. Chris Duhon (Chicago Bulls) 68 338 5.0

28. Chris Webber (Philadelphia 76ers) 60 297 5.0

30. Earl Watson (Memphis Grizzlies) 66 299 4.5

30. Richard Hamilton (Detroit Pistons) 65 294 4.5

 

 

Yep, not a true point guard.

[hammerhead johnson]

2004-05 Regular Season Assists Per Game 

  Player  G AST APG

  1. Steve Nash (Phoenix Suns)  63 725 11.5

  2. Brevin Knight (Charlotte Bobcats)  53 468 8.8

  3. Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks)  68 553 8.1

  4. Jason Kidd (New Jersey Nets)  54 430 8.0

  5. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers)  63 493 7.8

  6. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers)  65 477 7.3

  7. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic)  66 459 7.0

  8. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat)  67 463 6.9

  9. Rafer Alston (Toronto Raptors)  67 450 6.7

  9. Kirk Hinrich (Chicago Bulls)  65 435 6.7

  9. Mike Bibby (Sacramento Kings)  70 468 6.7

  12. Andre Miller (Denver Nuggets)  68 440 6.5

  13. Maurice Williams (Milwaukee Bucks)  67 412 6.1

  13. Tony Parker (San Antonio Spurs)  69 424 6.1

  13. Speedy Claxton (New Orleans Hornets)  58 353 6.1

  16. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons)  67 400 6.0

  16. Gary Payton (Boston Celtics)  66 394 6.0

  18. Luke Ridnour (Seattle SuperSonics)  69 404 5.9

  19. Jason Williams (Memphis Grizzlies)  58 337 5.8

  19. Tracy McGrady (Houston Rockets)  67 387 5.8

  21. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves)  71 398 5.6

  21. Rick Brunson (Los Angeles Clippers)  68 380 5.6

  23. Damon Stoudamire (Portland Trail Blazers)  67 369 5.5

  24. Jeff McInnis (Cleveland Cavaliers)  64 340 5.3

  24. Jason Terry (Dallas Mavericks)  68 361 5.3

  24. Gilbert Arenas (Washington Wizards)  66 348 5.3

  27. Jason Hart (Charlotte Bobcats)  62 318 5.1

  28. Chris Duhon (Chicago Bulls)  68 338 5.0

  28. Chris Webber (Philadelphia 76ers)  60 297 5.0

  30. Earl Watson (Memphis Grizzlies)  66 299 4.5

  30. Richard Hamilton (Detroit Pistons)  65 294 4.5

Yep, not a true point guard.

 

Yep, and neither are these guys:

 

5. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers)

6. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers)

7. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic)

8. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat)

 

And they all rank ahead of Kirk.

[DBAHO]

Yep, and neither are these guys:

 

5. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers) 

6. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 

7. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 

8. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat)

 

And they all rank ahead of Kirk.

Ahh yes Steve Francis. Anybody want him still? I've still got dreams of Atlanta trading their 1st pick for him so we can draft Bogut, but that's never going to happen.

 

Now some stats here for a Hinrich vs. Duhon argument;

 

Hinrich - Assist / Bad Pass = 4.6

Passing Rating = 10.8

AST48 (using the more than 2 minutes argument here qwerty and willie) = 8.7

"Hands" Rating = 24.1

 

Duhon - Assist / Bad Pass = 5.0

Passing Rating = 11.9

AST48 = 9.0

"Hands" Rating = 23.3

[southsider2k5]

I can't even believe you guys are turning this into an actual discussion....

 

Bulls fans UNDERrating Kirk???

 

Hinrich-6.7 assists per game

Duhon-5.0 assists per game

 

Almost TWO more assists per game while playing the shooting guard position.  Enough said. 

 

Stop kidding yourselves, Duhon isn't more than a backup.

 

How many more minutes per game does Kirk have to get those assists?

[GoodAsGould]

Duhon is a much better PG setting up our offense than Kirk.... And one reason for Duhons slip in FG% this month is he messed up his finger in that one game and that has probably effected his shot.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Yep, and neither are these guys:

 

5. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers) 

6. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 

7. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 

8. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat)

 

And they all rank ahead of Kirk.

 

So by your logic, only Nash, knight, marbury, and Kidd are true point guards? I didn't know you have to rank ahead of anybody who also can play the 2-guard (or 3) to be a point guard.

 

My point was that Kirk is a point guard, and he's the best one on the Bulls.

[WilliamTell]

when I first saw this thread I almost started to laugh, but then I checked the standings and they're only 4 1/2 games out. I was very shocked to see that, but I still think Detroit is just too good for them to win it.

[soxman352000]

Detroit is just too strong, I will be shocked if the Bulls are in first at any point in the rest of the season

[qwerty]

How many more minutes per game does Kirk have to get those assists?

 

Per 48 minutes duhon is better.

 

He is the better true point guard but like hammer said that does not mean he is the better overall player. Let me guess someone will say ''nope'' again? Then i will show them some stats and the they will say ''nope'' again?

Edited March 30, 2005 by qwerty

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Either way Detroit is going to be ready come playoff time, and I think almost everyone knows it's going to be a Pistons vs Heat Conference Final. But I wish Skiles would be getting more  for coach of the year, instead of Mike Fratello and George Karl.

 

Skiles will get plent of consideration fro Coach of the Year . Fratello and Karl have not coached a full season. Skiles main competition is Indiana coach Rick Carlisle for theway the Pacers have hung in the playoff pictures with a decimated roster.

[SoxFanForever]

Skiles will get plent of consideration fro Coach of the Year . Fratello and Karl have not coached a full season. Skiles main competition is Indiana coach Rick Carlisle for theway the Pacers have hung in the playoff pictures with a decimated roster.

Mike D'Antoni and Nate McMillan will get a lot more pub than Carlisle will get. I fear that Skiles won't have much of a chance against those two.

[nitetrain8601]

Kirk is a PG, he's not the best PG on the Bulls though. He sucks at making the post entry feed to anyone(including Eddy Curry) and his shot just sucks. It's been two seasons and last year he played PG all year and his FG% was still poor. With Kirk out the past 4 games, Eddy Curry's T/O's have gone down. Kirk looks for his shot way too much and he can't knock down a consistent jumper anymore than Duhon can(they're shooting around the same %). Duhon does everything better than KH at PG. He gets the ball into the post early. He finds the open guy and the offense runs so smoothly with him running the point.

 

Kirk's alright, but he isn't that great.

[SoxFanForever]

Kirk is a PG, he's not the best PG on the Bulls though. He sucks at making the post entry feed to anyone(including Eddy Curry) and his shot just sucks. It's been two seasons and last year he played PG all year and his FG% was still poor. With Kirk out the past 4 games, Eddy Curry's T/O's have gone down. Kirk looks for his shot way too much and he can't knock down a consistent jumper anymore than Duhon can(they're shooting around the same %). Duhon does everything better than KH at PG. He gets the ball into the post early. He finds the open guy and the offense runs so smoothly with him running the point.

 

Kirk's alright, but he isn't that great.

Maybe you should check their shooting percentages before saying that Kirk and Duhon are shooting close to the same.

[GoodAsGould]

i really wouldnt mind trading Kirk because with Duhon running things i think we would get more value from Kirk with the person he would bring in return. Only if the Warriors didnt get Davis than they might of traded Pietrus to us for Kirk which would of been awesome.

[WHarris1]

I would just like to say in the midst of all this Kirk hate, we NEED his defense.

[SoxFanForever]

I would just like to say in the midst of all this Kirk hate, we NEED his defense.

Thank you for bringing up a great point

[danman31]

Back to the original poll: The Bulls have 13 games left. Let's say best case scenario they go 10-3, that means the Pistons have to finish 5-7. Keep dreaming, we aren't winning the division.