Read it and weap, Cub fans!!!

[BridgeportHeather]

Lately, I've had a bunch of Cub fans trying to convince me that SamME's been better than Frank all the time. A couple months ago, I wrote this little paper comparing the careers of Frank Thomas and SamME Sosa. It's a good read and is something of which ALL Sox fans can use as even more ammunition in debates with clueless Cub fans. Note that I have written this in the perspective that I am talking to the Cub fans.

 

Email this to all the Cubs fans you know!!!

 

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Before I compare the statistics of both Frank Thomas and Sammy Sosa, I will let you know that while Thomas has played 13 seasons, Sosa has 15 under his belt. So, I will compute each player’s statistics on a per-year basis, dividing Thomas’ bottom line by 13 and Sosa’s by 15, so that we can look at the career averages for both players across many various statistics.

 

Runs Scored:

 

Frank Thomas has scored a total of 1168 runs, while Sammy Sosa has scored 1215 runs. That gives Thomas an average of 89.8 runs per year and Sosa averages 81 runs per year. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

Hits:

 

Frank Thomas has hit safely 1902 times, while Sammy Sosa has hit safely 1955 times. Thomas has an average of 146.3 hits per year, while Sosa has an average of 130 hits per year. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

Home Runs:

 

Frank Thomas has hit 376 home runs in his career, while Sammy Sosa has hit 499. Thomas has averaged 28.9 home runs per year, while Sosa averages 33.3 home runs per year. ADVANTAGE: SAMMY SOSA

 

RBIs:

 

Frank Thomas has 1285 career RBIs, while Sammy Sosa has 1347. Thomas has averaged 98.8 RBIs per year, while Sosa has averaged 89.9. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

Bases on Balls (Walks):

 

Walks build up partially because of the presence a certain batter brings to the lineup. Frank Thomas has been walked 1286 times, while Sammy Sosa has been walked 738 times. Thomas has averaged 98.9 walks per year, while Sosa has averaged 49.2. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

Strikeouts:

 

Frank Thomas has struck out 962 times in his career, while Sammy Sosa has struck out 1834 times in his career! Thomas averages 74 strikeouts per year, while Sosa averages 122.2 strikeouts per year. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

On Base Percentage:

 

While Frank Thomas has a career on base percentage of 0.432, Sammy Sosa has a career on base percentage of 0.348. Thomas is actually leading all active major leaguers in this category! ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS!

 

Slugging Percentage:

 

While Frank Thomas has a career slugging percentage of 0.568, Sammy Sosa has a career slugging percentage of 0.546. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

Batting average:

 

While Frank Thomas has a career batting average of 0.314, Sammy Sosa has a career batting average of 0.278. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

On-Base Plus Slugging Percentage:

 

While Frank Thomas has an OPS of 1.000, Sammy Sosa has an OPS of 0.972. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

MVP Awards:

 

Frank Thomas has 2, while Sammy Sosa has 1. ADVANTAGE: FRANK THOMAS

 

 

And so, as you can see, the only statistic Sammy Sosa leads Frank Thomas in is the home run category! Frank Thomas has obviously had a better CAREER than Sammy Sosa has, and that can’t be disputed! You can rag on Frank all you like, but the stats don’t lie. People glorify Sosa simply because of the home runs he hits. If it weren’t for his home runs, he would just be your average Joe according to the media! You have to look at an entire CAREER of a player instead of just looking back at the last few. Be careful about saying that “all of Sammy’s numbers are better,” when, in fact, Frank Thomas is totally wiping him across the field, as the statistics prove!

[Chisoxfn]

Well, the stats may go one way, but right now if I had the choice between Sammy Sosa DH'ing for the Sox or Frank Thomas DH'ing I would hands down pick Sammy Sosa.

 

Nothing against Frank, in his prime he was amazing, but Sosa is still in his prime while Frank hasn't been anything special other then 2000 the past few years. Now I hope he gets back on pace, but if it were a choice between those two, I'd love having Sosa in this lineup instead of Frank.

 

I also think that Sosa would be just fine in the clubhouse and his hustle would be a big addition to this club.

[BridgeportHeather]

One thing I question about SamME is his performance in pressure situations. He was "Mr. Clutch" in the late 90s; but now he doesn't hit when it really counts.

[clujer420]

Well, the stats may go one way, but right now if I had the choice between Sammy Sosa DH'ing for the Sox or Frank Thomas DH'ing I would hands down pick Sammy Sosa. 

 

Nothing against Frank, in his prime he was amazing, but Sosa is still in his prime while Frank hasn't been anything special other then 2000 the past few years.  Now I hope he gets back on pace, but if it were a choice between those two, I'd love having Sosa in this lineup instead of Frank.

 

I also think that Sosa would be just fine in the clubhouse and his hustle would be a big addition to this club.

If Frank played at Wrigley during his prime, he would have hit 50+ a season and would have had a legitmate shot at the triple crown.

 

Also, to my knowledge Sammy has been healthy in recent years. Frank has had a myriad of injuries (elbow, foot, and triceps), and has missed significant numbers of games because of it -- not to mention all the games that he has played at far less than 100%.

 

If I could have either of them up with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th down by a run, I'm taking Frank. Even when he's not swinging the bat well, he finds a way to get on base.

 

Not to mention the fact that Sammy is likely using something to enhance his performance. Look at his career HR numbers and how DRAMATICALLY they increase from the mid-90's to the late-90's.

[cwsox]

Well, the stats may go one way, but right now if I had the choice between Sammy Sosa DH'ing for the Sox or Frank Thomas DH'ing I would hands down pick Sammy Sosa. 

 

Nothing against Frank, in his prime he was amazing, but Sosa is still in his prime while Frank hasn't been anything special other then 2000 the past few years.  Now I hope he gets back on pace, but if it were a choice between those two, I'd love having Sosa in this lineup instead of Frank.

 

I also think that Sosa would be just fine in the clubhouse and his hustle would be a big addition to this club.

Every once in a while I haev to say that even you Jason even you make a mistake.

 

Sosa is a selfish clubhouse distraction and not needed by us.

 

Frank can carry a team like very few players ever. What we have seen this year, the good eye and the walk, I think we may be seeing another season when Frank carries the team. Sosa will never carry a team, never has.

[Chisoxfn]

Well I do think Sosa carried his team in 98. That being said I have no doubt that the two of them in their prime, I take Frank, he was an absolute monster in a pitchers park.

 

I just need to see Frank show me once and far all that he's still that player. I haven't seen it in a few seasons and no matter how much I want to believe he's back, I'm taking the wait and see approach and until he proves it, I'm gonna think that he's on the downside of his career, even though I think we can see big things out of him.

[clujer420]

Sosa will never carry a team, never has.

You're wrong about one thing...Sammy CAN and DOES carry his team....

 

To the couch -- with his arm muscles and testes drowning in roids -- so they can watch the playoffs from home and have a collective crying session each and every October. . But, as long as Sammy gets his .300, 60, 150, Cub fans are happy -- and I'm sure Sammy is too.

[cwsox]

I shall stand corrected.

[clujer420]

I just need to see Frank show me once and far all that he's still that player.  I haven't seen it in a few seasons and no matter how much I want to believe he's back, I'm taking the wait and see approach and until he proves it, I'm gonna think that he's on the downside of his career, even though I think we can see big things out of him.

Hmmm....

 

1998 and 1999 -- down seasons for Frank when he was injured

 

2000 -- monster season

 

2001 and 2002 -- down seasons for Frank when he was injured

 

There's a pattern there.

 

2003 --

 

Don't doubt this man...just sit back and enjoy the show (and believe me, the main feature is about to begin).

[BridgeportHeather]

Sosa will never carry a team, never has.

You're wrong about one thing...Sammy CAN and DOES carry his team....

 

To the couch -- with his arm muscles and testes drowning in roids -- so they can watch the playoffs from home and have a collective crying session each and every October. . But, as long as Sammy gets his .300, 60, 150, Cub fans are happy -- and I'm sure Sammy is too.

HAHAHAHA!!!

 

And it's all true! As long as he keeps hitting the home runs, Cubs fans are happy...Utterly CLUELESS!!! LMFAO.

[cwsox]

I just need to see Frank show me once and far all that he's still that player.  I haven't seen it in a few seasons and no matter how much I want to believe he's back, I'm taking the wait and see approach and until he proves it, I'm gonna think that he's on the downside of his career, even though I think we can see big things out of him.

Hmmm....

 

1998 and 1999 -- down seasons for Frank when he was injured

 

2000 -- monster season

 

2001 and 2002 -- down seasons for Frank when he was injured

 

There's a pattern there.

 

2003 --

 

Don't doubt this man...just sit back and enjoy the show (and believe me, the main feature is about to begin).

I think we shall see that monster season this season - I really do.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't doubt him, its just 1 great season out of the previous 5 isn't something to really be impressed with. Now the potential is all there, but I am sick of waiting and want to see it. Last season he was lost at the plate, but he had a defense and I stuck up for him. This season he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but I'm going to hold off until I see him like the Frank of old. Right now he's popping up a lot of stuff. I still think in 2000 he was nowhere as good as he was in his earlier seasons. The early to mid 90's Frank was what it was all about, imo. I know his 2000 numbers were amazing and you could argue it was his best season, but I believe he was better before that.

[clujer420]

I don't doubt him, its just 1 great season out of the previous 5 isn't something to really be impressed with.  Now the potential is all there, but I am sick of waiting and want to see it.  Last season he was lost at the plate, but he had a defense and I stuck up for him.  This season he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but I'm going to hold off until I see him like the Frank of old.  Right now he's popping up a lot of stuff.  I still think in 2000 he was nowhere as good as he was in his earlier seasons.  The early to mid 90's Frank was what it was all about, imo.  I know his 2000 numbers were amazing and you could argue it was his best season, but I believe he was better before that.

I think 2000 was his best season overall because of the simple fact that the team won 95 games. He was the leader of that team (.328, 43, 143) and was league MVP for the 3rd time until Giambi paid someone off to vote for him.

 

He may have been more dangerous in the mid-90's, but except for 1993 and 1994, the Sox were pretty much an average team all of those years. In 2000, it all came together for the team with Frank at the helm.

 

The good thing for the Sox is that when Frank puts up similar numbers this year, he'll have an improved Magglio and Konerko to back him up -- that's something he didn't have in 2000.

[cwsox]

I don't doubt him, its just 1 great season out of the previous 5 isn't something to really be impressed with.  Now the potential is all there, but I am sick of waiting and want to see it.  Last season he was lost at the plate, but he had a defense and I stuck up for him.  This season he's got plenty of time to prove me wrong, but I'm going to hold off until I see him like the Frank of old.  Right now he's popping up a lot of stuff.  I still think in 2000 he was nowhere as good as he was in his earlier seasons.  The early to mid 90's Frank was what it was all about, imo.  I know his 2000 numbers were amazing and you could argue it was his best season, but I believe he was better before that.

Jason, you didn;t see him play in 2000 in person, did you?? Not a knock, just a question. What he did in 2000 was far beyond the stats. And as far as 98 and 99, playing injured, and he still had what other plares would call great seasons.

 

2001 - all injury.

 

2002 - all recovery.

 

What Frank brings is more than just the numbers - the three games that IO saw, I see the signs of Frank reverting to 2000 form and if he does with all the intangibles, then that is worth everything, and we owe it to Frank whose competitive fires burn deep for all he has done to let Frank do this thing. Thre reward will be awesome.

 

And as stats obsessed as he can be, he is a team player. Saw that when Graf ran through a Frank slide sign. Graf scored but it could have been an out and Frank let Graf know he blew it. Frank is out there playing team bal;l and asking the others to do it. That is the type of leadership we need from him, and get friom him, which is often under appreciated or under recognized -- and sure won't be things received from Sosa.

[Chisoxfn]

I watched probably 120 games in 2000 and saw every game they played in Anaheim that year. I know Frank was great, but I thought in the earlier years he was even better, thats no knock on the Frank of 2000, he was the MVP that year, but the 2000 team he had a lot more protection.

 

Now I do see a lot of resemblance this season to 2000 in Frank, in terms of walks and he seems to be seeing the ball more, but Frank was real agressive that season and if I recall had an open stance then (It was his first year) while right now his stance has been pretty closed.

[cwsox]

did I catch somewhere that he is seeing Hrinriak again? Or am I wrong?

[clujer420]

did I catch somewhere that he is seeing Hrinriak again?  Or am I wrong?

You are correct, sir.

 

Frank said that he's going to call Walt in the next day or 2 and talk to him about his mechanics, because he said that he's being pitched inside and it's throwing off what he's trying to do up there.

 

I don't understand that really, since they've been pitching him inside all the time since 2000, but Frank knows more about it than me, I'm certain.

 

Tuesday's a big game for Frank IMO. He was given the day off today and tomorrow will be an off-day, so he'll have time to collect himself mentally and come out swinging vs. KC.

[cwsox]

Frank taking care of business fills me with hope - no one works harder than frank (excpet maybe Fisk and Clemens) and when Frank is this serious, watch out! And that is good for us!

[witesoxfan]

Good players put up good stats.

 

Great players make the players around them better.

 

I think I've summed up my argument.

[Bighurt52235]

I started being a baseball fan in 1997, and the 2000 season was the only good season they had. I miss that season, when seemingly everything flowed great. On July 2nd, 2000, I made my first trip to Comiskey, where the ChiSox beat the BoSox 8-2. Maggs hit 2 HR's, and Frank was 2 for 2 with two walks, including a homerun into the left field bullpen, close to where I was seated. I can still vividly remember the ball jumping off his bat, and I followed it all the way into the tunnel. I still smile thinking about that. On a side note, Maggs followed that with his 2nd jack, and then PK SINGLED off the left field wall

 

 

The point I'm trying to make is that 2000 was a magical season for me, the Sox, and Frank.

 

 

What a wonderful trip down memory lane.

[witesoxfan]

I started being a baseball fan in 1997, and the 2000 season was the only good season they had.  I miss that season, when seemingly everything flowed great.    On July 2nd, 2000, I made my first trip to Comiskey, where the ChiSox beat the BoSox 8-2.  Maggs hit 2 HR's, and Frank was 2 for 2 with two walks, including a homerun into the left field bullpen, close to where I was seated.  I can still vividly remember the ball jumping off his bat, and I followed it all the way into the tunnel.  I still smile thinking about that. On a side note, Maggs followed that with his 2nd jack, and then PK SINGLED off the left field wall 

 

 

The point I'm trying to make is that 2000 was a magical season for me, the Sox, and Frank.

 

 

  What a wonderful trip down memory lane.

Yeah, well, I went to see the Sox play the Twins in the Metrodome twice that year. The first time....I saw MB make his first career start and get his first career win, and I got to see David Ortiz go about 7-7 against us. I also got to see Brook Fordyce hit a homer into the LF seats....the 2nd row of seats.....and it was slightly right of the 328 sign out there in LF(or however far it is). The next game, we lost 5-1....with Jose Valentin's homer being the 1.

 

And then the next series I saw....Charles Johnson hit a homer(something about me going to the Metrodome and our catchers hitting homers....I bet if I go this year....Olivo or Alomar or Paul will go deep....hopefully, NOT Paul). Thomas went about 1-8 again...and it seems that David Ortiz went about 4-6 that series or something like that. I was also at the game that we clinched the division....I remember it because the score of the Indians game came up, and it said they lost....and I was sitting on the wrong side of the field( ), and I heard some cheering from the other side, and I looked up just in time to see that the Indians lost, and I looked over, and I saw our guys cheering. Man, that was killer.

 

I then got to stay till the 10th, because of AJ Pierzynski's 2nd career homer that landed 464 feet away, and then Matt Lawton hit a walk-off dinger. The Twinks weren't doing much celebrating after that game...or not as much celebrating as us.

[The Critic]

Also, to my knowledge Sammy has been healthy in recent years.  Frank has had a myriad of injuries (elbow, foot, and triceps), and has missed significant numbers of games because of it -- not to mention all the games that he has played at far less than 100%.

This is maybe the ONLY consideration that would swing the decision in Sosa's favor.

 

No, there's one more thing - when Frank is not going well, he has a tendency to sulk, and that is just as bad in a clubhouse as selfishness.

 

Truth is, they're both outstanding hitters, and you can do worse than either one. Thomas will pull out of his slow start, I think, and he'll end up really helping this year's team.

[SI1020]

Maybe I'm naive but I think Frank's accomplishments have been made without the benefit of supplements. Some day it's going to come out who used what in the last decade or so. Many reputations will be tarnished if not ruined altogether.

[SoxFan1]

Thats true but Frank has never used roids or anything else. I believe that 2003, Frank will hit .310, 30 HR's, 110 RBI's, and around 100-110 BB's.

[SI1020]

That's what I'm saying, Frank hasn't used them but others have.