RockRaines Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 01:33 PM) Yep. Chris Widger .242 career AVG Mike Matheny .239 career AVG Now, I'm not saying that Widger is on par with Matheny but this is likely about defensive prowess behind the plate. I think he was hitting the ball well during ST as well. Alot of the times he got screwed on a great play or hit a rocket to the ss, but I think that Widger is a good option considering his defense and his experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 07:33 PM) Yep. Chris Widger .242 career AVG Mike Matheny .239 career AVG Now, I'm not saying that Widger is on par with Matheny but this is likely about defensive prowess behind the plate. And he can probably -- just an assumption here -- probably hit lefties better than Davis can/would... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Yawn, we have a long way to go to get to the point where backup catcher is meaningful. If AJ goes down, it's over. We need each starter to play 140-160 games to have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) And he can probably -- just an assumption here -- probably hit lefties better than Davis can/would... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, I was about to say that. Davis is a better lefty hitter than righty. If we keep Davis we would essentually have two lefty-hitting catchers since Davis sucks batting righty. Pierzynski and Widger would give us a lefty/righty platoon at catcher. Edited March 30, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 So does anyone have a guess at all??? I don't think it's the Dodgers because they have Bako, Navarro and that other guy. I also thought that the Minny rumors were just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) There was an article out of Rays land that stated AJP was on the block but ESPN's report squashed that. It's clear now they got Davis & AJP mixed up in that report. It makes sense since AJP has much greater trade value. http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug30.html As most of you know by now Valdez was claimed off waivers by the Mets. Starters: MB, FG, JC, OH, JG, Relievers: NC, DH, CP, LV, DM, ST = 11 IF : JC, JU, TI, PK, IFB: RG, WH, PO = 7 OF: JD, AR, SP, OFB: CE, TP = 5 C: BD, & AJP = 2 If Davis is traded Widger is the likely backup since he still remains on the 28 man roster. Widger & Burke are the same age (33) but Widger is MUCH more experienced: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=5434 Widger career #: 532G 1592AB .242A .299O .403S He's spent time with NYY & STL over the past 3 yrs. 2002 NYY 21G, 64AB .297A .338O .375S 2003 StL 44G, 102AB .235A .279O .603S 2002 NYY C .983FP% 6.69RF 27.3%CS 4.63CERA 2003 StL C .995FP% 6.43RF 33.3%CS 4.39CERA Enough to make Davis expendable. For the Burke fans: 2004 CWS 57G 120AB .333A .386O .408S 2004 CWS C .987FP% 6.97RF 42.1%CS 4.78CERA I think it's a mistake. Widger has not made a ML roster since 2003 & Burke has a better RF & CS% than Widger. Burke outperformed Widger in ST. You don't lose anything starting Widger in AAA & Burke has earned that bench spot. He's much more versatile than Widger. Edited March 30, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 08:12 PM) So does anyone have a guess at all??? I don't think it's the Dodgers because they have Bako, Navarro and that other guy. I also thought that the Minny rumors were just that. I'd guess that if Davis gets traded, he'll end up in LA (Dodgers), Tampa, or Colorado. Just a guess, no speculation/facts behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) So does anyone have a guess at all??? I don't think it's the Dodgers because they have Bako, Navarro and that other guy. I also thought that the Minny rumors were just that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My guess would be the Mets. They just signed Kelly Stinnett but if they don't feel that he can adequately back up Piazza they may be interested in Davis. They have also fallen out of the Charles Johnson hunt since it looks like the Devil Rays will snag him. Piazza sucks behind the plate and Stinnett is old. They could use some young knees to back up Piazza behind the dish. I think it's a mistake. Widger has not made a ML roster since 2003 & Burke has a better RF & CS% than Widger. Burke outperformed Widger in ST. You don't lose anything starting Widger in AAA & Burke has earned that bench spot. He's much more versatile than Widger. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This article explains what happened to Widger last season... "Recharged Widger ready to play Catcher happy even though roster spot is not definite" http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...t=.jsp&c_id=cws Edited March 30, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I'm sorry but I just can't buy these arguments vs Burke. Yes Widger's ML experience swamps Burke, but what have you done for me lately? Since 2003 Burke has been hitting the ball well at every level he's played. Widger has not. 3 yr Splits: CW vs LH 39AB .256A .302O .359S, vs RH 127AB .260A .301O .339S JB vs LH 67AB .313A .373O .403S, vs RH 61AB .361A .400O .410S Burke is a MUCH better hitter than Widger right now. Burke has the obviously better arm with a much better CS%, & CERA is a wash when you compare AL to NL avg's. Widger is less error prone, but not to a degree where he deserves it over Burke. Add to that the fact Burke can play corner IF & LF if need be & he's the obvious better bench player choice. What I hate the most in KW's mistreatment of Burke is how it reflects on other players in the ml's. They look at Burke & shake their head wondering what they must do to make it to the big show. The term late bloomer is not a fantasy. Such players do exist. Have thoughout the history of the MLs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 02:19 PM) You might want to rethink that one. Jaime Burke has 5 ML at bats that were not with the White Sox. The Sox are the one team that has given him a real chance at the majors. And as for "proving" himself, Jaime got 120 ABs last year, which was 10 times the ABs he had ever had in a season. I would hardly call him proven with a career total of ABs that is just barely past the number that would lose him his rookie status. Yeah I guess you are right. He was just a nice guy to have on the team. He got some clutch hits and can play basically anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I'm sorry but I just can't buy these arguments vs Burke. Yes Widger's ML experience swamps Burke, but what have you done for me lately? Since 2003 Burke has been hitting the ball well at every level he's played. Widger has not. 3 yr Splits: CW vs LH 39AB .256A .302O .359S, vs RH 127AB .260A .301O .339S JB vs LH 67AB .313A .373O .403S, vs RH 61AB .361A .400O .410S Burke is a MUCH better hitter than Widger right now. Burke has the obviously better arm with a much better CS%, & CERA is a wash when you compare AL to NL avg's. Widger is less error prone, but not to a degree where he deserves it over Burke. Add to that the fact Burke can play corner IF & LF if need be & he's the obvious better bench player choice. What I hate the most in KW's mistreatment of Burke is how it reflects on other players in the ml's. They look at Burke & shake their head wondering what they must do to make it to the big show. The term late bloomer is not a fantasy. Such players do exist. Have thoughout the history of the MLs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Burke has cleared waivers already. Widger likely wouldn't. Pierzynski is going to get almost 500 at bats this season. If Widger struggles in his very little playing time we can just bring up Burke, hope Widger clears waivers, and send Widger to Charlotte. This isn't that difficult to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 QUOTE(Beastly @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 06:54 PM) Let me start out by saying that Cliff Politte is garbage, and I found it absolute bulls*** that the White Sox couldn't find anyone better in free agency than that piece of s***. Secondly, trade Davis, I mean yeah, he was decent when he was with us, but he's nothing overly spectacular for a back-up. I like Burke better than Davis. The reason we've been carrying 3 catchers is because of injuries and liability of cash flow on the roster. It is silly to keep Davis and send Burke down, potentially losing him. Widger sucks, let him go. If we can pry Kim from the Red Sox, I say we take him. Seriously, I don't care about Bmac right now, we can save him for later. Or is there a rule that he has to be on the 40 at the start of the year or he can't be called up? I'd think we'd be able to get rid of Politte and Davis...it might work, if we got that 40 spot for BMac and that pitcher in Kim. I am a bit hung over , but here goes, what the hell are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I think it's a mistake. Widger has not made a ML roster since 2003 & Burke has a better RF & CS% than Widger. Burke outperformed Widger in ST. You don't lose anything starting Widger in AAA & Burke has earned that bench spot. He's much more versatile than Widger. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just curious, have you watched the games or are we relying just on numbers? Widger has been impressive defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Burke has cleared waivers already. Widger likely wouldn't. Pierzynski is going to get almost 500 at bats this season. If Widger struggles in his very little playing time we can just bring up Burke, hope Widger clears waivers, and send Widger to Charlotte. This isn't that difficult to understand. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've read that Widger as a non-roster invitee was signed to a ml contract. He doesn't have to clear waivers. That's no reason to add him over Burke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Just curious, have you watched the games or are we relying just on numbers? Widger has been impressive defensively. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. Widger's defense at catcher is better than Burke's. I think Juggernaut likes Burke because he can also play some 3B. But Ozuna can also play some 3B and he can play it better than Burke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Just curious, have you watched the games or are we relying just on numbers? Widger has been impressive defensively. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes I've watched the games & yes his sure hands remind me of Clayton. Doesn't make many mistakes but doesn't have the better range either. If they were vying for a starters job I would agree that Widger's glove probably rates slightly better than Burke's. But they are vying for a bench spot & in that respect the player's bat is more important than his glove. Burke is MUCH more versatile coming off the bench than Widger is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) Yes I've watched the games & yes his sure hands remind me of Clayton. Doesn't make many mistakes but doesn't have the better range either. If they were vying for a starters job I would agree that Widger's glove probably rates slightly better than Burke's. But they are vying for a bench spot & in that respect the player's bat is more important than his glove. Burke is MUCH more versatile coming off the bench than Widger is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Versatile? Burke can play some 3B but Ozuna already plays it better. With Willie also expected to make the roster and back up 2B/SS, why do we need Burke's ability to play 3B on the bench? By the way, how often do you see backup catchers pinch-hit in the A.L.? Burke had 4 pinch-hit at bats last season. Ben Davis had 1 pinch-hit at bat last season. Edited March 30, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Yes I've watched the games & yes his sure hands remind me of Clayton. Doesn't make many mistakes but doesn't have the better range either. If they were vying for a starters job I would agree that Widger's glove probably rates slightly better than Burke's. But they are vying for a bench spot & in that respect the player's bat is more important than his glove. Burke is MUCH more versatile coming off the bench than Widger is. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umm, no. The bat is not more important for a backup catcher. How he handles the staff and how he is defensively is infinitely more important ... especially since your #1 catcher is above average offensively. And guess what, that's why they will carry Widger over Burke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Versatile? Burke can play some 3B but Valdez already plays it better. With Willie also expected to make the roster and back up 2B/SS, why do we need Burke's ability to play 3B on the bench? By the way, how often do you see backup catchers pinch-hit in the A.L.? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you mean Ozuna? Valdez was claimed off waivers by the NYM. Both Burke & Ozuna are inexperienced at 3B. Burke can play some 1B as well as most athletic C's in the league can. That makes a difference if you want to sub Koney with a RH bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Umm, no. The bat is not more important for a backup catcher. How he handles the staff and how he is defensively is infinitely more important ... especially since your #1 catcher is above average offensively. And guess what, that's why they will carry Widger over Burke. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Indeed, good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) Did you mean Ozuna? Valdez was claimed off waivers by the NYM. Both Burke & Ozuna are inexperienced at 3B. Burke can play some 1B as well as most athletic C's in the league can. That makes a difference if you want to sub Koney with a RH bat. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, yeah I meant Ozuna. Wow, now we need Burke's defensive abilities at 1B? That's what Konerko and Gload are for. Burke played all of 2 games at 1B last season. Keep in mind that he didn't start those 2 games at 1B either. He was a late inning defensive switch. Edited March 30, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Isn't Burke Buehrle's personal catcher anyway? If I am in fact correct, Jugs is right in that we don't need a catcher for defensive purposes, since AJ should for the most part be starting 4 out of 5 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Umm, no. The bat is not more important for a backup catcher. How he handles the staff and how he is defensively is infinitely more important ... especially since your #1 catcher is above average offensively. And guess what, that's why they will carry Widger over Burke. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Burke has the better arm. His CS% is nearly twice Widgers over the past 3 yrs. Both of them have played about the same number of games in that time. Widger has never handled this staff in a ML game. Burke has. I remain unconvinced but appreciate your effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 03:16 PM) Burke has the better arm. His CS% is nearly twice Widgers over the past 3 yrs. Both of them have played about the same number of games in that time. Widger has never handled this staff in a ML game. Burke has. I remain unconvinced but appreciate your effort Being Mark Buehrle's catcher kinda skews that stat package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) Being Mark Buehrle's catcher kinda skews that stat package. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NO! That's all Burke's game-calling skills!!! :headshake Juggernaut doesn't seem to understand statistical outliers. Edited March 30, 2005 by Jabroni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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