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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=6717

Burke 3+ AB games: W10-3, W11-7, L9-5, W6-2, W2-1, L2-1, L12-0, W9-8, W3-2, W14-0, W6-4, L10-7, W9-8, W5-4, W7-5, W7-3, W13-6, L6-1, L11-10, W6-1, W7-6, L8-6, W5-4, W9-2, L10-2

 

17W, 8L. He's caught his share of quality starts & his share of bum losses.

But look at the record in close games. I hope the ChiSox reconsider Widger over Burke.

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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=6717

Burke 3+ AB games: W10-3, W11-7, L9-5, W6-2, W2-1, L2-1, L12-0, W9-8, W3-2, W14-0, W6-4, L10-7, W9-8, W5-4, W7-5, W7-3, W13-6, L6-1, L11-10, W6-1, W7-6, L8-6, W5-4, W9-2, L10-2

 

17W, 8L. He's caught his share of quality starts & his share of bum losses. 

But look at the record in close games. I hope the ChiSox reconsider Widger over Burke.

Do you not understand the fact that Burke being Buehrle's personal catcher last season skews most of these stats you are posting? Buehrle could make any catcher look good.

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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=6717

Burke 3+ AB games: W10-3, W11-7, L9-5, W6-2, W2-1, L2-1, L12-0, W9-8, W3-2, W14-0, W6-4, L10-7, W9-8, W5-4, W7-5, W7-3, W13-6, L6-1, L11-10, W6-1, W7-6, L8-6, W5-4, W9-2, L10-2

 

17W, 8L. He's caught his share of quality starts & his share of bum losses. 

But look at the record in close games. I hope the ChiSox reconsider Widger over Burke.

 

Your obsession with numbers is interesting, but it doesn't tell the whole story and it never will.

 

Caught stealing % doesn't necessarily mean one guy has a better arm than another guy ... but you knew that I hope?

 

To repeat ... there is a reason why Widger has more major league experience than Burke, there is a reason why the Sox chose to take Burke off the 40 man and bring Widger in, and there is a reason why Burke has spent most of his career in the minors.

 

The White Sox have had a long, close look at Burke the past couple of years, yet decided to bring in Widger and have him slotted as the backup catcher (assuming this Ben Davis trade stuff is true). That tells me a lot more than peripheral numbers on backup catchers ever will.

 

Plus there are things we don't know, i.e. how they handle the staff, and I'm not talking about CERA or some other number crunch.

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Do you not understand the fact that Burke being Buehrle's personal catcher last season skews most of these stats you are posting?  Buehrle could make any catcher look good.

 

He still has to catch the ball & throw runners out. His bat no doubt contributed to many of those close games as well. He has a much better arm than Widger.

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Sorry to interupt the conversation, but I really hope that Bruuuuuuuuuce isn't just yankin' all of our (collective) chains here. If Davis isn't traded, I'll be really pissed at Levine -- not because I want Davis gone so bad, just because how many times can a guy be wrong without being called out for it?

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There's a clear pattern in this thread when it comes to Burke. Since you can't make an argument based on any REAL numbers you continue to denegrade the man on the believe that in your opinion there's no such thing as a late bloomer.

 

The only fact you have to support your argument is how long it took Burke to crack the ML's & the ChiSox treatment of him since. How do I know he has a better arm? Because I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY. I'VE SEEN HIM THROW.

I've likewise seen Widger & he has a hard time getting rid of the ball.

 

I've not seen enough of Widger in defense of in the dirt pitches to claim he's any better than Burke in that regards. But if he is then I could buy that as a strong argument: Contreras, El Duque, Marte, & Shingo are notorious for wild pitches.

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There's a clear pattern in this thread when it comes to Burke.  Since you can't make an argument based on any REAL numbers you continue to denegrade the man on the believe that in your opinion there's no such thing as a late bloomer.

 

The only fact you have to support your argument is how long it took Burke to crack the ML's & the ChiSox treatment of him since.  How do I know he has a better arm?  Because I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY.  I'VE SEEN HIM THROW.

I've likewise seen Widger & he has a hard time getting rid of the ball.

 

I've not seen enough of Widger in defense of in the dirt pitches to claim he's any better than Burke in that regards.  But if he is then I could buy that as a strong argument: Contreras, El Duque, Marte, & Shingo are notorious for wild pitches.

That's almost as bad as using the catching stats of someone who is Mark Buehrle's personal catcher to prove that he is great. :rolly

Edited by Jabroni
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QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 04:02 PM)
There's a clear pattern in this thread when it comes to Burke.  Since you can't make an argument based on any REAL numbers you continue to denegrade the man on the believe that in your opinion there's no such thing as a late bloomer. 

 

The only fact you have to support your argument is how long it took Burke to crack the ML's & the ChiSox treatment of him since.  How do I know he has a better arm?  Because I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY.  I'VE SEEN HIM THROW.

I've likewise seen Widger & he has a hard time getting rid of the ball.

 

I've not seen enough of Widger in defense of in the dirt pitches to claim he's any better than Burke in that regards.  But if he is then I could buy that as a strong argument: Contreras, El Duque, Marte, & Shingo are notorious for wild pitches.

Widger looks alot like AJ blocking pitches in the dirt.

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Sorry to interupt the conversation, but I really hope that Bruuuuuuuuuce isn't just yankin' all of our (collective) chains here.  If Davis isn't traded, I'll be really pissed at Levine -- not because I want Davis gone so bad, just because how many times can a guy be wrong without being called out for it?

It doesn't make sense to pay Davis $1 million when Pierzynski will likely get almost 500 at bats this season. Yorvit Torrealba, who was AJ's backup on the Giants last year, only had 172 at bats last season. Davis had 193 at bats last season but he likely wouldn't get that many this season with AJ on board.

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QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 04:02 PM)
There's a clear pattern in this thread when it comes to Burke.  Since you can't make an argument based on any REAL numbers you continue to denegrade the man on the believe that in your opinion there's no such thing as a late bloomer. 

 

 

The fact remains that a ton of people have seen Burke play, and they know that he has trouble catching the ball.

 

When you are a catcher, that's probably something you should be good at.

 

 

I will say...I like Burke. I like his stick, I like him defensively(other then the fact that he can't catch the ball sometimes), and he seems like a good guy off the bench. But he is probably the 26th man on a 25 man roster.

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QUOTE(Jabroni @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 10:08 PM)
It doesn't make sense to pay Davis $1 million when Pierzynski will likely get almost 500 at bats this season.  Yorvit Torrealba, who was AJ's backup on the Giants last year, only had 172 at bats last season.  Davis had 193 at bats last season but he likely wouldn't get that many this season with AJ on board.

 

Well, while we're at it (trading overpaid bench players), maybe we can find someone who'll take G-H-Civic's favorite player...

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The only fact you have to support your argument is how long it took Burke to crack the ML's & the ChiSox treatment of him since.  How do I know he has a better arm?  Because I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY.  I'VE SEEN HIM THROW.

I've likewise seen Widger & he has a hard time getting rid of the ball.

 

This should be filed under "opinion".

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QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 05:36 PM)
Very surprising.  Considering Davis is either still hurt with his ligament problem or recovering.  Plus, he's got a $1M salary.  Unless he's going to be a starter, that's pretty high for a backup IMHO.

 

As far as Kim,  :banghead  :banghead  :banghead

 

According to redsox.com, he's going to the Rockies.

 

There is a reason they are trading Kim and it's becasue of a loss in velocity=arm problems. We don't need another set up guy especially one with problems.

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There is a reason they are trading Kim and it's becasue of a loss in velocity=arm problems. We don't need another set up guy especially one with problems.

Agreed, why would we want an overpriced reliever with arm troubles that's only throwing 87 MPH?

Mar. 27, 2005 - 7:02 pm et

 

Byung-Hyun Kim picked up a save by allowing one run in the ninth inning today against the Pirates.

It would have been a scoreless innings, but second baseman Ramon Vazquez dropped the ball and got just one out on what should have been an easy double play. Kim actually showed a little better velocity today, throwing 85-87 mph rather than 82-85. However, he plunked another left-handed batter, something that's becoming more and more of a problem for him.

If we wanted that we should have just signed Matt Mantei for barely any money.

Edited by Jabroni
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QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 30, 2005 -> 04:02 PM)
There's a clear pattern in this thread when it comes to Burke.  Since you can't make an argument based on any REAL numbers you continue to denegrade the man on the believe that in your opinion there's no such thing as a late bloomer. 

 

The only fact you have to support your argument is how long it took Burke to crack the ML's & the ChiSox treatment of him since.  How do I know he has a better arm?  Because I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY.  I'VE SEEN HIM THROW.

I've likewise seen Widger & he has a hard time getting rid of the ball.

 

I've not seen enough of Widger in defense of in the dirt pitches to claim he's any better than Burke in that regards.  But if he is then I could buy that as a strong argument: Contreras, El Duque, Marte, & Shingo are notorious for wild pitches.

 

How about some real statistics in regard to Mark Buehrle. MB is at the top of major league baseball along with Andy Pettite every stinking year in the number of runners picked off, and of the lowest basestealing percentage against. They are also both the leaders in having the fewest stealing attempts against.

 

Its an easy leap to connect the dots here. MB picks off a lot of runners. Runners stay closer to first base. Lots of runners who are "picked-off" turn out to be guys who go on first movement, which lots of time for MB is a throw to first base, which results in an easy CS for the IFers.

 

Also the brave runners who wait the extra half second to make sure that MB is indeed in his motion before breaking to second base are losing critical time needed to steal second base, making the chances that even a crappy catcher can throw them out, much higher. Thus if someone is MB's personal catcher the fact that they have these built in advantages to throwing out runners, it is a logical conclusion that they will throw out a higher percentage of runners trying to steal.

 

Instead someone who catches the rest of the staff, which includes all RHP who inherently have a disadvantage keeping runners closer to 1B, which gives the runners an extra critical step towards second base, which goes to reason that they will be successful more often. These catchers will also be ran on more often, because the baserunners know they have a better chance of stealing against them, which will also skew the CS% numbers down for the catcher who is trying to get them out.

 

Now what is so difficult about that?

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^^ The voice of reason. :notworthy

 

In other news, it appears that the Red Sox, not the Devil Rays, will be trading for Charles Johnson...

Latest News  Mar. 30, 2005 - 8:12 pm et

 

According to the Denver Post, the Red Sox will receive Charles Johnson and Chris Narveson from the Rockies in return for Byung-Hyun Kim.

Obviously, Boston has no use for Johnson. Maybe they'll have better luck than the Rockies did getting a lesser prospect for him. If not, they'll release him and he'll probably sign with Tampa Bay. Narveson instead of Jason Young is the surprise, but there's not much difference in talent between the two. Both were viewed as better prospects a couple of years ago, and the right coach might be able to make something of either.

 

Source:  Denver Post

So maybe now the Devil Rays will be interested in Ben Davis? Bah, they will probably still try to get Charles Johnson.

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Charles Johnson won't even play a game with the Red Sox. They already let him go.

 

However, Johnson won't play a game for the Red Sox. Upon making the transaction, the Sox designated Johnson for assignment and then released him. Johnson is expected to wind up with the Devil Rays by early next week.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...t=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Edited by robinventura23
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