Pope John Paul has died

[POTUSChris]

RIP John Paul II

[Texsox]

I was reading some of the coverage about the coverage and was surprised to learn that news organizations have been renting rooftop space near the Vatican for years in anticipation of this story.

 

I know they prepare obits and make plans for world leaders deaths, so they can be prepared, but even remembering to rent locations for years in advance was surprising to me.

[SoxAce]

R.I.P Holy Father.

[southsider2k5]

The Pope's would be assasin wants to attend his funeral

 

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3ps.htm

[Texsox]

The Pope's would be assasin wants to attend his funeral

 

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3ps.htm

 

Watch it on tv like everyone else. :banghead I'm certain there are a lot of convicted criminals that would like a get out of jail for a day cards.

[sec159row2]

the pope got some cheers on opening day... they pplayed some song in tribute to fallen members of the white sox family... most people I didn't recognize... but the last picture they featured was the pope and he got some cheers... even though the lady next to me said "he's just the pope"

[southsider2k5]

Funny screen shot from the NY Times. Evidently they hadn't quite finished the article when it went up on their site the first time.

 

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/TimesPope.php

[KipWellsFan]

Funny screen shot from the NY Times.  Evidently they hadn't quite finished the article when it went up on their site the first time.

 

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/TimesPope.php

 

oops

[southsider2k5]

US Delegation pays last respects

[Rex Kickass]

They interrupted Oprah for that on ABC stations in Philadelphia and New York.

[Texsox]

They get to hang out in Italy for a couple days? Damn, that's good work if you can get it. I figured he would drop in late tomorrow, catch the funeral and then adios for the casa blanca

[southsider2k5]

Can we leave this pinned through the funeral, maybe the weekend?

[southsider2k5]

This is an interesting read from today's Trib

 

As his body declined in the last few months, Pope John Paul II placed more faith in medical technology than any pontiff ever had. He relied on a ventilator when his breathing failed, a feeding tube when he could not eat, and drugs to treat a spiral of infections.

 

But the defender of tradition would not let machinery rule his final hours. He stayed in his rooms at the Vatican's 400-year-old Apostolic Palace, not the hospital where he had spent 28 days this year. And at the end, when his breathing grew shallow and labored, he let death take him.

 

Throughout his long papacy the pope had struggled over how much to embrace the changing technologies that threatened traditional Catholic teachings. While praising the power of science to extend life, he worried about its potential to subvert human dignity. The way he died--depending on technology but not a prisoner of it--offered his last lesson on the mixed blessing of scientific advances.

 

What might have surprised many of his followers was the pope's open-mindedness about the advances that swept the world during his lifetime, some scholars said. Even on abortion, which he rejected utterly, John Paul II urged biologists to shed light on the moral issue by studying the mystery of when human life begins.

 

"He was the least dogmatic of men about these things," said David Solomon, director of the Center for Ethics and Culture at the University of Notre Dame.

 

The question of whether to prolong lives that seem beyond hope may have presented the toughest test of the pope's beliefs. Last year, as the Terri Schiavo controversy gained national prominence, he made statements suggesting that for patients with such profound brain damage it could be acceptable to withdraw a ventilator--but not to remove a feeding tube. Some ethicists saw his words as an awkward attempt to draw a sharp ethical line where new technology left no easy solutions.

 

"That was an unfortunate move," said James Walter, director of the bioethics institute at Loyola Marymount University and a former consultant to the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin. Walter said the pope's intentions were good, but "there are limits to our obligation to preserve life."

 

The pope was tireless in fighting other changes in medicine, especially when they challenged his vision of sexual morality. His tenure saw the advent of in-vitro fertilization, the expansion of birth control and abortion, and the new science of embryonic stem cells--all changes the pope opposed.

 

Yet his caution on reproductive technology did not stem from simple prudishness or hidebound devotion to tradition. In fact, the pope viewed the excesses of reproductive medicine partly as the worst expression of capitalism, a materialistic consumer culture that can remove people from God and the true meaning of life.

 

In a 1995 encyclical affirming his opposition to abortion and any tampering with embryonic life, John Paul traced such problems to a modern obsession with material comforts.

 

"Life itself becomes a mere `thing,' which man claims as his exclusive property, completely subject to his control and manipulation," the pontiff wrote. "The only goal which counts is the pursuit of one's own material well-being."

 

Fostering harmony between faith and science was a constant theme of the pope's work. In the 1980s he cautiously embraced gene therapy, the modifying of a person's genetic code to treat disease or even to enhance natural abilities such as intelligence.

 

"He didn't discount the idea of changing genes solely for enhancement purposes," Walter said. "He just said this has to be placed in a broader moral context."

 

What John Paul fiercely opposed was the use of genetic testing as a tool for eugenics and the selective abortion of diseased embryos and fetuses.

 

"Such an attitude is shameful and utterly reprehensible," the pope said in 1983, "since it presumes to measure the value of a human life only within the parameters of `normality' and physical well-being."

 

A major initiative of his papacy was the rehabilitation of the astronomer Galileo, imprisoned by the Inquisition in 1633 for insisting, counter to church tradition, that the Earth revolves around the sun. The pope said in 1992 that the church had erred in convicting Galileo. Yet even that well-intended gesture was so late in coming that it reinforced criticisms of the church as woefully behind the times.

 

Decades after most Catholics in Europe and America chose to ignore the church's teachings against artificial birth control, the pope refused to reconsider that prohibition. A recent Gallup poll found that 78 percent of U.S. Catholics believe the next pope should permit birth control.

 

Some Catholic theologians believe that disconnect between the church and its followers on a basic issue of medical ethics undermines the church's credibility on other vital issues, such as abortion.

 

"Nobody understands what they're talking about," said Thomas Shannon, a professor of religion and social ethics at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts. "People basically say, `Gee, they can't get this right, what's the problem?'"

 

Catholics also were divided over the pope's teachings on end-of-life care. The church has always taught that Catholics are not obligated to use extraordinary means to preserve life, or to prolong life when treatment would offer no benefit. Many Catholic ethicists believe those principles mean it is acceptable to remove feeding tubes from some brain-damaged patients, like Schiavo, who have no chance of recovery.

 

"Death is not the ultimate evil. It's not a failure. It's the transition from this life to eternal life," said Rev. John Paris, a professor of bioethics at Boston College and an ordained Jesuit priest.

 

Paris cited a 2001 statement by the U.S. bishops encouraging the use of feeding tubes, "as long as this is of sufficient benefit to the patient." In a more arcane case, a 16th Century moralist argued that Catholics would not be obliged to maintain a special diet of chickens and partridges if it was too arduous or expensive. Paris said he believes the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube was consistent with such teachings on the acceptable boundaries of medical care.

 

John Paul rebuffed that idea in a speech to an international physicians group in March 2004. In the speech he described removing nutrition and hydration from brain-damaged patients as "euthanasia by omission." Keeping such patients on feeding tubes, he said, is "a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act."

 

Still, the pope's own decision to limit medical interventions at the end of his life showed that he understood that there is a time to give up the material world, many ethicists said.

 

In fact, in some of his writings John Paul voiced reservations about the use of medicine to relieve physical suffering. The pope and many other Catholics believe that in some situations pain and suffering can have redemptive value--an experience that modern treatments can mute. In his writings the pontiff quoted the early church figure Paul: "I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake." The pope believed that pain offers a chance to participate in Jesus' ordeal on the cross and strive for a spiritual solace, said Daniel P. Sulmasy, a Franciscan friar and director of the bioethics institute of New York Medical College.

 

"He argued that one should never seek suffering for its own sake, but that avoiding it at all costs amounted to a denial of one's nature as a creature," Sulmasy wrote in an e-mail for this article. "Here, he taught by example."

 

The pope's painful ordeal from Parkinson's disease came years after a 1984 letter he wrote on suffering. But the ideas he laid out there gave a glimpse of the courage he later showed to the world.

 

Suffering, John Paul wrote, is "deeply human, because in it the person discovers himself, his own humanity, his own dignity, his own mission."

[Texsox]

I heard an interesting interview with a Professor at Notre Dame. There are three basic physical needs that all humans have.

 

1. Air to breath

2. Temperate climate (natural or man made)

3. Food and Water

 

If a terminal patient asked to freeze to death, or be strangled, we would not allow that. Why would we allow them to dehydrate or starve?

 

I think the Pope was following that same line of reasoning.

[Queen Prawn]

I heard an interesting interview with a Professor at Notre Dame. There are three basic physical needs that all humans have.

 

1. Air to breath

2. Temperate climate (natural or man made)

3. Food and Water

 

If a terminal patient asked to freeze to death, or be strangled, we would not allow that. Why would we allow them to dehydrate or starve?

 

I think the Pope was following that same line of reasoning.

 

We wouldn't strangle them, but ventalators are removed quite often (I've witnessed it twice).

 

But, I agree about your thoughts on what the Pope's line of reasoning is.

 

I've decided to start attending mass again (with the help of the priest that is marrying Brian and myself as well as the Pope's passing). I am looking forward to mass on Sunday. Never thought I would hear myself say that again.

[Steff]

They are reading/releasing his will today...

 

Also.. live coverage will start at 3am tomorrow morning for those that are interested in watching it.

 

Also.. QP.. I sent an announcement over there in February and yesterday got a response - a very nice card which appears to be hand signed by PJP wishing us well, etc.. and a very nice blessing. I had been told by people to do that and never expected anything back but I guess they do respond to all that send. Very cool item for the scrap book.

[southsider2k5]

JPII considered resigning during 2000

[southsider2k5]

Sainthood could be around the corner for Pope John Paul the great.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/297463p-254645c.html

[southsider2k5]

China will not send representative in protest of Tai relations

[Steff]

What's the deal with him not being embalmed..? I've heard conflicting stories about that having something to do with him being granted sainthood..

[Steff]

So.. umm.. I just read his Will...

 

I'm 31 and mine is nearly 3 pages.. his is only 3 paragraphs... is that all of it or just all they released?

[OfficerKarkovice]

What's the deal with him not being embalmed..? I've heard conflicting stories about that having something to do with him being granted sainthood.. 

 

They only use a fermeldahide solution so that in the case that he may be cannonized in say...50 years...they would open his coffin and see if he has been naturally preserved...indicating a miracle. Kind of a disturbing thought but it has been done throughout history.

[southsider2k5]

4 Kings, 5 Queens, 70 Presidents, and more...

[Soxy]

Not Cool... From the NYT

 

Cardinal Law, Ousted in U.S. Scandal, Is Given a Role in Rites

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN

 

Published: April 8, 2005

 

ROME, April 7 - Cardinal Bernard Law, who was forced to resign in disgrace as archbishop of Boston two years ago for protecting sexually abusive priests, was named by the Vatican today as one of nine prelates who will have the honor of presiding over funeral Masses for Pope John Paul II.

 

To many American Catholics, Cardinal Law is best known as the archbishop who presided over the Boston archdiocese as it became the focus for the sexual abuse scandal involving priests.

 

But to Vatican officials, Cardinal Law is a powerful kingmaker who traveled internationally for the church and whose favorite priests were regularly appointed bishops by John Paul. After he stepped down in Boston in 2003, he was given a spacious apartment and a prestigious although honorary post in Rome as archpriest of the Basilica of St. Mary Major.

 

It is by virtue of this position that he was given the high-profile role of celebrating Monday's funeral ritual, the third in the nine-day mourning period that follows a pope's death. It is expected that most of the cardinals will attend the Mass, which will be open to the public. Cardinal Law will deliver a homily that many Vatican watchers will parse for clues about the cardinals' thinking on who should be the next pope.

 

By permitting Cardinal Law to take the limelight in Rome just when the church is mourning the death of John Paul, the cardinals have reminded American Catholics that their most painful recent chapter barely registered in the Vatican.

 

"It's yet another example of the gap between how the Vatican sees things and how the U.S. church sees things," said the Rev. Keith F. Pecklers, an American Jesuit who is a professor at the Gregorian, a pontifical university in Rome. "This kind of thing can open the wounds for people just when the healing was beginning."

 

Cardinal Law resigned after a judge decided to unseal court records that included a letter from the cardinal commending priests even though he knew they had been accused at one time of abusing children. After saying for a year that he would not resign, he finally stepped down and cloistered himself for a while in a monastery until his appointment in Rome.

 

More than 600 people who say they were victims have come forward in the Boston archdiocese, the fourth-largest in the United States. The church there has paid settlements of more than $90 million, and Cardinal Law's successor, Archbishop Sean P. O'Malley, has had to consolidate parishes and close Catholic schools to cope with the resulting financial problems.

 

In Boston, Bernie McDaid, one of as many as 50 people who have accused the Rev. Joseph Birmingham of sexual abuse, said he and others among them were "infuriated" to learn Thursday of Cardinal Law's prominence in the papal funeral and transition.

 

"He never lost power, even though he stepped down from Boston," Mr. McDaid said. "In any other corporation if you lost your rank and left, you'd lose your power and you'd be stripped of your title." But, "here he is in Rome, still as powerful as he was before."

 

The nine days of mourning begins on Friday, with the requiem Mass, over which the dean of the College of Cardinals, Joseph Ratzinger of Germany, will preside.

 

As a member of the College of Cardinals who is under age 80, Cardinal Law is eligible to vote in the conclave that will elect the next pope. The conclave is scheduled to begin on April 18.

 

In Rome, neither Cardinal Law nor Archbishop O'Malley responded to interview requests. Cardinal Law was among the American cardinals who attended a reception this evening with President Bush and his wife, Laura, at the United States Embassy residence. At a news conference on Thursday, Cardinal Edward M. Egan of New York said he believed that Cardinal Law had been chosen to preside at the funeral Mass because of his status as archpriest in the basilica. He declined to say whether he approved.

 

The list of the nine prelates selected to celebrate funeral Masses for the pope was announced Thursday by Archbishop Piero Marini, master of the Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff.

 

One senior Vatican official familiar with the workings of the College of Cardinals, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the cardinals approved the list during their meetings this week.

 

When asked whether Cardinal Law's role in the American scandal was taken into consideration, the official said, "I don't think so." He said that Cardinal Law was not acting as a former Boston archbishop in celebrating the Mass but in "another capacity - he's one of the senior cardinals."

 

However, one Vatican expert said that by tradition, the cardinals had no choice but to select Cardinal Law to preside at one of the nine funeral Masses. Dr. John-Peter Pham, author of "Heirs of the Fisherman," a book about papal succession, said it was customary for the archpriest of one of three patriarchal basilicas in Rome, St. Peter's, St. Paul's and St. Mary Major, to celebrate a novemdiales Mass.

 

Two of the archpriests are already celebrating Masses in different ceremonial roles; having them celebrate two Masses would violate protocol, Dr. Pham said.

[FlaSoxxJim]

They only use a fermeldahide solution so that in the case that he may be cannonized in say...50 years...they would open his coffin and see if he has been naturally preserved...indicating a miracle.  Kind of a disturbing thought but it has been done throughout history.

Sometimes you really have to fish for a miracle. sort of like manufacturing saints... OzzieBall Catholocism...

 

I've already heard people latch onto the would-be casual comment that, "it's a miracle he survived..." [the 1979 assisination attempt], ready to add that to the saintly score sheet when the time comes.

 

Screw that, I want REAL MIRACLES. Like Saint Dennis from the good old Book of Saints from my dark past. He was martyred through beheading, but rather than just lay down and die, he picked up his head and walked a couple of miles to his tomb where he set down his head and died.

 

 

Now THAT is an Old School Miracle. It's also one of the many little things that make Catholicism just about the creepiest thing going. Which is what kept my rapt attention for the 18 years that I stuck it out, of course.