Rowand says there's no selfish players on the Sox

[CWSGuy406]

Since Rowand didn't say it, I will say that I thought that some guys (ie Lee, Maggs, Valentin) were selfish in the fact that they often swung for the fences in situations where they just needed to move a guy over.

 

It was so refreshing to me yesterday to see Jermaine get Paulie over and then his quote after the game was even more impressive.

This one game made me a huge Jermaine fan.

 

Jermaine ripped that ball (or, from what I saw). It was a plus that he got it to the right side, but if that ball's a foot higher, that's a double, easy.

[Steff]

It was more rhetorical, but I get what you mean.

 

 

I know.. I should have left off the "right?"

 

It's amazing to me the "crap" that gets printed when it's blatently "inuendo".

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I don't know about that aboz. I don't think that is a fair portrayal of Maggs ORdonez as a hitter/ Also, Valentin did go from the heart and soul of the team to being a questionable guy just by leaving. SOme of these writers are worse than ex-girlfriends

[Molto]

I don't think there was anything wrong for them to mention Lee, Ordonez and Valentin. Should they have said ... "guys who weren't necessarily into the team concept."? No, that was stretching it, but pointing out which players are gone is fine by me considering what Rowand said.

 

Now, had they of written a big long piece off of Rowand's comments, yeah, that would've been sad, but what the writer did wasn't as bad as you guys are making it seem. Talk about making something out of nothing.

[aboz56]

I don't think there was anything wrong for them to mention Lee, Ordonez and Valentin. Should they have said ... "guys who weren't necessarily into the team concept."? No, that was stretching it, but pointing out which players are gone is fine by me considering what Rowand said.

 

Now, had they of written a big long piece off of Rowand's comments, yeah, that would've been sad, but what the writer did wasn't as bad as you guys are making it seem. Talk about making something out of nothing.

Good point Mario.

 

I agree the team concept comment wasn't necessarily the best wording, but all three of those guys did swing for the fences a lot, especially Carlos and Jose.

[Steff]

The fact the writer called Valentine a bad "team" guy is an absolute travishamockery...Valentine was always a GREAT team leader in the clubhouse, so to call him a bad team player is just plain dumb.

 

 

It's all speculation to us.. not being in there and hearing things first hand. At one time or another I have heard even the "nicest" guys have said crap. There have long been rumors of Jose having issues.. but again.. all speculation. Those writers do see and hear a lot though...

[aboz56]

Jermaine ripped that ball (or, from what I saw).  It was a plus that he got it to the right side, but if that ball's a foot higher, that's a double, easy.

He ripped it, but he did try to go the other way with it, which he did.

 

Hawk and DJ made note of it during the whole at-bat that he was trying to go the other way and I believe he fouled a few off to the right as well.

[AirScott]

Rowand didn't say a single word about the team from last year, so this Carol Slezak is just trying to start something...I have really only heard good things in the past about Valentin, Mags, and Lee in terms of clubhouse presence. in fact, since Valentin has no other marketable skills, he'd better be a good clubhouse guy, or he'd have been out on his ass.

[Molto]

Rowand didn't say a single word about the team from last year, so this Carol Slezak is just trying to start something...I have really only heard good things in the past about Valentin, Mags, and Lee in terms of clubhouse presence.  in fact, since Valentin has no other marketable skills, he'd better be a good clubhouse guy, or he'd have been out on his ass.

 

Rowand's quote hinted that.

 

If Rowand believes nobody from last year's team was selfish, he wouldn't have said, "I can honestly say that about guys 1 through 25. Not one guy is worried about his stats. We're only worried about winning.''

 

Rowand was talking about the team and what he likes about it. If last year's team was full of team players, then he would've mentioned the change to speed, defense and not the team attitude, because what is the big deal if everyone is a team player if it didn't work the year before?

 

He also tipped his hat to KW for bringing these kind of guys in here. As opposed to the guys we had prior?

[Punch and Judy Garland]

It's nto really fair to categorize Lee as a homer happy guy considering that by the end of his long hitting streak, he only had 4 hoemrs and it's not like he was hitting 218

[Rowand44]

It's nto really fair to categorize Lee as a homer happy guy considering that by the end of his long hitting streak, he only had 4 hoemrs and it's not like he was hitting 218

That was the carlos lee i wish i saw all of his career. He was a GREAT hitter during that streak, cause he was using all directions of the field not overswinging, taking what was given to him. After that streak he went to walker saying he wanted to hit more homeruns, that's always bothered me. He started hitting his fair share of homeruns but he was back to popping up a lot of pitches and overswinging in key situations where he'd only care about hitting a homerun, that was always my biggest problem with carlos.

[RockRaines]

LOL.  Actually I think we may be making more out of it. Didn't we have a Lee attitude thread a month or two ago? And I know we discussed Jose and his power numbers and lower average. If the shoe fits . . .

 

But let's give her kudos for not mentioning Frank. That's the writers first reflex for the past 15 years.

I think it was Mike Jackson

[ottawa_sox]

That was the carlos lee i wish i saw all of his career.  He was a GREAT hitter during that streak, cause he was using all directions of the field not overswinging, taking what was given to him.  After that streak he went to walker saying he wanted to hit more homeruns, that's always bothered me.  He started hitting his fair share of homeruns but he was back to popping up a lot of pitches and overswinging in key situations where he'd only care about hitting a homerun, that was always my biggest problem with carlos.

 

To my way of thinking, even his non-homerun, high average stretch of games, does not necessarily mean he was not thinking selfishly. He was 'seeing the ball' great and making solid contact. But he still might have gotten many hits through the left side, when the situation dictated going the other way. When you are on a roll and you hit the ball 'where it is pitched', then all the power to you. But sometimes you have to force it the other way to the detriment of your average. I am not saying this is what happened. I am just pointing out that statistics alone do not point to sefishness or otherwise.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I am not much for the no power Lee. He was hitting like Lyle Mouton at that point. I prefer to see the 300-30-100 Lee. Not that it matters much these days

[Rowand44]

To my way of thinking, even his non-homerun, high average stretch of games, does not necessarily mean he was not thinking selfishly.  He was 'seeing the ball' great and making solid contact.  But he still might have gotten many hits through the left side, when the situation dictated going the other way.  When you are on a roll and you hit the ball 'where it is pitched', then all the power to you.  But sometimes you have to force it the other way to the detriment of your average.  I am not saying this is what happened.  I am just pointing out that statistics alone do not point to sefishness or otherwise.

Oh, I agree. I'm not basing this on his stats but just the way he worked the ball all around the field, hitting line drives and not just trying to hit the ball out of the park. Punch and Judy, difference of opinion, agree to disagree

[WilliamTell]

I am not much for the no power Lee. He was hitting like Lyle Mouton at that point. I prefer to see the 300-30-100 Lee. Not that it matters much these days

 

 

lol Lyle Mouton, didn't Hawk used to call him something like Big Swing? But anyways, that guy brings back a few memories. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's playing on a big league team anymore, idk about anything else though.

[1549]

After reading this...swinging for the fences with the bases loaded down a run doesn't make you selfish.

 

It is natural human instinct..."we are down...one swing we have a lead with some cushion...I can do this". It isn't selfish IMO, its just a thought that some guys are better at supressing than others.

[ottawa_sox]

Oh, I agree.  I'm not basing this on his stats but just the way he worked the ball all around the field, hitting line drives and not just trying to hit the ball out of the park.  Punch and Judy, difference of opinion, agree to disagree

 

We probably aren't even disageeing. I, too, preferred the 'spraying' Carlos Lee style of hitting. As far as all the talk of the Sox being unselfish as a unit, I am heartened. We'll see how far it pans out. How many of these guys actually practice bunting. When I was a little leaguer, an almost embarrasing number of decades ago, we ended our individual hitting with a few mandatory bunts. I would love to think the need to sharpen and hone this valuable and time honoured skill is not beneath any current major leaguer. I suspect differently. If they are facing a truly dominating pitcher in a low 1 run game in the late innings, I would like to think anyone could, if need be, get the runner over to 3rd with 1 out. The day I leap out of my chair and threaten my cat with a heart attack will not be when Paul Konerko hits a 3 run shot with 1 out in the bottom of the 9th, but rather when he pulls off a suicide squeeze to bring in the winning run. That would be savvy, exciting and smarter than potentially ending the threat with one swing by hitting into a double play.

[GoodAsGould]

idonno but i really was happy when Clee was up to bat or Magglio.... those guys were awesome.... Now Valentin he is different, while from all accounts he was a great club house guy he really stunk on the field and switching to being only a lefty this late in his career i think is a mistake.

 

But wasnt there a story of Clee saying he hated everyone or something like that besides Magglio... so who knows.

[YASNY]

Yas and Steff, I misinterpreted/misread it.  And, Yasny correctly stated that the writer implied that about Maggs/Valentin/Lee, not Rowand.  Sorry for the confusion...

 

That's all I was trying to do was clarify what was actually said by Rowand. It's so easy for a writer to take a quote out of context, or to twist a quote to their agenda by adding their own commentary to it. Even in this thread, I have seen people assuming Rowand was implying some negativity, when his quote was nothing but a positive spin on this year's team.

[mrzo2733]

I like all 3 of the departed players mentioned. Having said that, Carlos is a selfish ball player. I don't really know how anyone can say otherwise. After that hitting streak was over, he became the same old Carlos ( still a very good ballplayer but trying to hit home runs all the time). I can't really say anything bad at all about Mags or Jose though. Mags seemed to be a good team player and Jose played the game as hard as anyone.

[Capn12]

Maggs lost me at "Scott Boras"

 

JosE6, well I won't deny that IMO Jose gave his all while in teh Sox uniform, its just that his hitting from the right side of the plate was HORRID, and more of a liability than an asset.

 

CLee, hmm I don't know what I think. It seemed at times that CLee did what was needed of him, but maybe that was only cause it coincided with making him look good...I really dunno.

[hammerhead johnson]

The fact the writer called Valentine a bad "team" guy is an absolute travishamockery...Valentine was always a GREAT team leader in the clubhouse, so to call him a bad team player is just plain dumb.  

 

Valentine is an Italian name.

 

How you and countless others can confuse a Puerto Rican name for an Italian name is something that I could never figure out even if my life depended on it.

Edited April 6, 2005 by hammerhead johnson