Sox vs Tribe 4-7-2005 game thread.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I'm watching the replay, I didn't realize Shingo was 1 strike away from ending it....and they went yard back to back on 2 consecutive pitches!!

One of the worse collapses I've ever seen by a closer.

[Guest WhiteSox2005MB]

Its what all you little boys sit and obsess about.  You just can't handle being away from us.  All you do is think of ways to try to get back on here, and that is so darned cute.  Even with your own little made up world, you still have to be posessed with what is going on here.  I can understand though because this is so much better than the alternative.  And of course you agree or you wouldn't take the time to make up new emails so that you can register and post here over and over again.

 

We'll see you all soon!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aren't you a mean one!

[JUGGERNAUT]

Our 2005 bullpen & how to manage it:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Cotts

Pitches 1-15 133AB .203 .291 .263 .555

Pitches 16-30 82AB .329 .415 .695 1.110

Pitches 31-45 27AB .222 .300 .556 .856

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Vizc

Pitches 1-15 198AB .207 .243 .389 .632

Pitches 16-30 64AB .313 .416 .609 1.025

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Politte

Pitches 1-15 132AB .250 .286 .424 .710

Pitches 16-30 53AB .226 .382 .302 .684

Pitches 31-45 13AB .538 .625 .846 1.471

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Hermanson

Pitches 1-15 130AB .238 .289 .377 .666

Pitches 16-30 84AB .262 .315 .393 .708

Pitches 31-45 75AB .240 .280 .427 .707

Pitches 46-60 69AB .290 .363 .406 .768

Pitches 61-75 68AB .279 .342 .588 .930

Pitches 76-90 48AB .313 .357 .458 .815

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Marte

Pitches 1-15 168AB .220 .289 .369 .658

Pitches 16-30 78AB .192 .319 .282 .601

Pitches 31-45 12AB .333 .467 .667 1.133

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Shingo

Pitches 1-15 156AB .154 .214 .224 .439

Pitches 16-30 61AB .262 .365 .475 .840

 

The ChiSox do not have any one who fits the role of dominant closer.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Isringhausen

Pitches 1-15 203AB .192 .246 .300 .546

Pitches 16-30 71AB .225 .305 .380 .685

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ching&year=2004

Pitches 1-15 176AB .176 .238 .256 .494

Pitches 16-30 76AB .224 .314 .276 .590

 

Shingo has the best 1-15 pitch numbers in the pen. That makes him the best choice for closer. But his 16-30 numbers are so weak, that Ozzie must put a short leash on him & be ready to replace him after the 15 pitch mark. It's not closer by committee but rather closer redundancy. Marte & Hermanson are best suited for that role but they are all effective for 1-15. You should be able to close out the 9th w 30 pitches.

 

I hope Ozzie wakes up & realizes this. He did a HORRIBLE job at managing the pen today. Using Vizc for more than 15 pitches is suicide.

 

http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/pitc...Type=2&type=vsb

It's quite a statistic because it pretty much paints a picture that after Cotts there really isn't an arm at Charlotte ready to come up & help out. That's why it makes sense to stick with the 6 man pen. If Munoz shows some strong stuff down there again that might be an option.

 

I think the ChiSox have enough talent on this team to win the division. But Ozzie

needs to recognize the team's strengths & weaknesses & manage accordingly. I don't think he's done a good job at that so far in 2005.

Edited April 8, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[southsider2k5]

Aren't you a mean one!

 

And you are cute. You love us.

[Guest WhiteSox2005MB]

And you are cute.  You love us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I love you!

[qwerty]

I love you!

 

Says you are banned yet you keep posting?

[southsider2k5]

I love you!

 

Obviously you do.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

Despite what I say I love everyone!

 

The Love-Fest thread?

 

Let's all get along.

 

Go White Sox!!!!!!!!!!

[JUGGERNAUT]

It was mentioned earlier but it deserves further consideration. Even with his HORRIBLE use of the pen, the CWS were still tied going into the 11th.

 

Ozzie had pushed Vizc WAY past his pitch count for effectiveness. His other option was to go to Garland.

 

Jon Garland

Pitches 1-15: 114AB 246A, .306O .342S .649OPS = solid #'s.

Pitches 16-30: 120AB .283A .333O .450S .783OPS = ok #'s.

Pitches 31-45: 124AB .290A .348 .419 .768OPS = ok #'s.

Pitches 46-60: 129AB .295A .355 .581 .936 = bad #'s.

Pitches 61-75: 107AB .243A .346 .374 .720 = solid #'s.

Pitches 76-90: 107AB .262A .298 .495 .794 = ok #'s.

Pitches 91-105: 90AB .278A .337 .500 .837 = bad #'s.

Pitches 106-120: 37AB .216A .310 .514 .823 = bad #'s.

 

The numbers suggest Jon can be pretty effective for about 3 innings as a RP. CLE didn't have much left in the tank in their pen either so the advantage certainly swings to the CWS.

 

Was it more important for the CWS to win this game than to have Buerhle match up with Santana? I think it was.

 

Hernandez vs Lohse, & Buehrle vs Radke give the CWS the adv in both those games. Coming back to Garland on Sun vs Santana would still have been good. They battled last year & Garland won 2-1. He would probably be limited to 90 pitches but that's when he loses his effectiveness any ways. So we still could have gotten 4-5 innings out of Garland & then 2 innings out of Hermanson vs Santana.

 

Look at the odds:

Garland vs bottom of CLE's pen & rotation : adv CWS

Buehrle vs Radke : adv CWS

Garland + Herm vs Santana : adv MIN

 

vs

 

Vizc vs bottom of CLE's pen & rotation : adv CLE

Garland vs Radke : adv MIN

Buehrle vs Santana : adv MIN

[southsider2k5]

Jugg, jmho, but I think you should put down your stat horn until you have some concept of 'sample size' and 'significant difference'.

 

Two words chi squared.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I just re-watched the 9th, and what is sort of scary to me is that during the thread people said,"O' well, he didnt have his command today" but like you just said, and like I just saw for the 2nd time,he was one pitch away from ending the game, and looked pretty normal for the most part, he just got figured out, which scares me.............

 

...And A.J. or Coop or Oz never went out there to settle him down. After the 2nd bomb, you think ONE of them would go out there, even if it's just to shoot the s*** and ice the Indian's offense a little bit. If I'm AJ, I ask for a high inside fastball on the next pitch. Everyone at the park knew the next guy is thinking to unload on the 1st pitch. Oh well, hindsight is 20-20, bring on the Twinkies.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Any one with enough intelligence to look at the numbers knows that Ozzie was MORE to blame for the loss than either Shingo or Vizc.

 

If you think otherwise you're just ignorant. Just look at their numbers for their first 30 pitches thrown. Both are effective for the first 15 pitches but Vizc is horrible after that & Shingo is not much better.

 

When a manager ignores that & expects more than the numbers show it's his loss to bear.

 

Ozzie lost the game in the 7th, 9th, & 11th. He had 3 opps to manage this

game to a win & he blew all 3.

[Steff]

You ignorant stupid people... :rolly

 

 

Straight from the Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people"

[Guest JimH]

Any one with enough intelligence to look at the numbers knows that Ozzie was MORE to blame for the loss than either Shingo or Vizc. 

 

If you think otherwise you're just ignorant.  Just look at their numbers for their first 30 pitches thrown.  Both are effective for the first 15 pitches but Vizc is horrible after that & Shingo is not much better.

 

When a manager ignores that & expects more than the numbers show it's his loss to bear.

 

Ozzie lost the game in the 7th, 9th, & 11th.  He had 3 opps to manage this

game to a win & he blew all 3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You know what, your endless droning about numbers is a royal pain in the ass.

 

I wouldn't have commented but for your two blowhard statements above about having enough intelligence and if people don't agree with your viewpoint, they're ignorant. Holy crap, are you feeling some kind of superiority complex? Memo to you: you're not better or worse than anyone here. Take it easy, big time, on the "if you don't believe the way I see it, you're ignorant" approach.

[southsider2k5]

You ignorant stupid people...  :rolly

Straight from the Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people"

 

No, no he is reading from the Rush Limbaugh book of How to Win Friends and Influence people...

[JUGGERNAUT]

You know what, your endless droning about numbers is a royal pain in the ass.

 

I wouldn't have commented but for your two blowhard statements above about having enough intelligence and if people don't agree with your viewpoint, they're ignorant. Holy crap, are you feeling some kind of superiority complex?  Memo to you:  you're not better or worse than anyone here.  Take it easy, big time, on the "if you don't believe the way I see it, you're ignorant" approach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ask me if I care. When people make statements refuting something I've said in which I have posted numbers to back it up that opens them up for criticism. If they have nothing to back up their statement then I will rip it to shreds with the numbers.

 

When people say something from the gut or from observation I usually leave them alone but if you're going to criticize something I say you better have enough intelligence to back it up. If you are ignoring the numbers in your criticism then you are being ignorant.

 

Now I've read the last 3 mindless non-baseball related posts in this baseball related thread & said to myself obviously some people don't know the difference between being ignorant & being stupid.

 

Old sig elements: rest in peace.

Reason's to hope (losses): 04 H 35L, R 44L; 03 H 30L, R 46L; 02 H 34L, R 47L; 01 H 35L, R 44L; 00 H 35L, R 32L

 

Road Warriors(bats): Pods 04 R 274A/741OPS, 3 yr avg: R 295A/783OPS. Igs has the best R #'s on the team (JPL). AJP 04 R 261/720, 3yr R 294/787. ARow 04 R 317/907, 3yr R 296/811. Everett 04 R 296/828, 3yr R 276/792. Thomas 04 R 274/892, 3yr R 250/793. Gload 04 R 311/839, 3yr R 318/848. Dye 04 R 247/738, 99-01 R 291/864, 02 274/825 03 DL. Koney 04 R 239/708, 3yr R 263/763, 99-01 R 284/805

 

Road Warriors(arms): Marky B 04 R (229/630), 3yr R (260/710). Garcia 04 R (237/679), 3yr R (254/725). El Duque 04 R (237/724), 3yr R (251/700). Garland 04 R (255/762), 3yr R (272/790). Shingo 04 R (180/561). Marte 04 R (182/570), 3yr R (191/590). Vizcaino 04 R (235/724), 3yr R (238/720). Herm 04 R (254/769), 3yr R (272/766).

 

Road Bums: Crede, Uribe, Perez, Contreras, Politte, Adkins, Cotts.

 

Friendly from Demolition Man: I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder gee, should I have the T-bone steak, or the jumbo rack of bar-b-que ribs with the side order of gravy fries? I want high cholesterol. I want to eat bacon and butter and buckets of cheese, okay. I want to smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green jell-o all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've seen the future. You know what it is? It's a 47 year old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas drinking a broccoli shake singing "I'm an Oscar Mayer wiener." Moral? MYOFB!! Down with PC? Vote GOP

Edited April 8, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT