I've never understood why...

[FlaCWS]

Dustin Hermanson looked great in the 8th. Ozzie lifted him just because Takatsu is the "closer." I've never understood that mentality. I mean, if you have Rivera or Gagne, fine, but no one else should get that automatic call, IMO.

 

This is not a second guess. I was thinking this when Shingo came out there for the ninth. Now the game is tied and I'm not sure what pitchers are left if they need extra innings. Maybe Vizcaino.

 

Hopefully we can win it in the bottom of the ninth so it won't matter.

[Molto]

Dustin Hermanson looked great in the 8th. Ozzie lifted him just because Takatsu is the "closer." I've never understood that mentality. I mean, if you have Rivera or Gagne, fine, but no one else should get that automatic call, IMO.

 

This is not a second guess. I was thinking this when Shingo came out there for the ninth. Now the game is tied and I'm not sure what pitchers are left if they need extra innings. Maybe Vizcaino.

 

Hopefully we can win it in the bottom of the ninth so it won't matter.

 

While I agree with you as I'm completely against having a "closer," this game was messed up in the seventh when Guillen used three pitchers, and then a fourth in the eighth inning. He can't just expect Takatsu is going to finish the game without question. You have to leave a couple relievers in the pen.

[DonkeyKongerko]

How many closer by committee bullpens have been successful though? Hermanson blew some big ones last year. I also remember a game where Politte dominated the 8th inning and came out for the 9th and quickly gave up two hits.

 

Shingo's command was off today, he usually doesn't leave those fastballs up like that.

[Molto]

That's usually because the bullpen by committee is first, an idiotic thing to do, second, it usually means you have no quality relievers.

 

By leaving a guy like Hermanson in for the ninth after he pitches the eighth isn't a bad thing in a three-run game, especially after you waisted three relievers for no reason whatsoever the inning before.

 

I'm not agreeing with the point of the thread, just saying why leaving in Hermanson wouldn't be a bad thing. Personally, I would've never used three relievers in the seventh, because that is now a problem with Garland down there.

[FlaCWS]

I'm definitely not talking about bullpen-by-committee. I'm just saying that sometimes the manager can have a feel for the game rather than an automatic hook when the ninth comes along. Especially when you've already used most of the pen.

 

Just an opinion. Obviously Ozzie's in the dugout and knows better.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I would have gone with Shingo. It wouldn't have worked today but it's like Doubling Down on 11, even when it doesn't work you should still have done it.

[qwerty]

A three run lead to geta save is ridiculous in my opinion anyway. Way to easy.

[CWSGuy406]

How many closer by committee bullpens have been successful though?  Hermanson blew some big ones last year.  I also remember a game where Politte dominated the 8th inning and came out for the 9th and quickly gave up two hits.

 

Shingo's command was off today, he usually doesn't leave those fastballs up like that.

 

No one's ever tried a closer by committee, with a good bullpen. Like, when Boston tried it, their relievers sucked.

[DonkeyKongerko]

The question is, do WE have a good bullpen? If we did, I don't think we'd be talking about CBC.

[Y2HH]

Apparantly not very easy.

 

A three run lead to geta save is ridiculous in my opinion anyway. Way to easy.

[Y2HH]

This game was flat out embarassing.

[Nokona]

I did not see Shingo throw the frisbee at all today. It was like once he gave up that homer on the fastball he wouldn't give up on it until it worked again.

[EvilMonkey]

I don't have a problem with coaches going to thier closer in the 9th, but the flurry of pitchers beforfe Shingo just ticks me off. I hate bringing in a pitcher for one batter.

[KipWellsFan]

I don't have a problem with coaches going to thier closer in the 9th, but the flurry of pitchers beforfe Shingo just ticks me off.  I hate bringing in a pitcher for one batter.

 

I think the only mistake made was bringing in Cotts in the 7th inning instead of Marte(credit Fathom). But then again the score was 5-1 at the time.

 

The one batter thing was only with 2 pitchers and at that time was probably the logical decision.

[Yossarian]

Dustin Hermanson looked great in the 8th. Ozzie lifted him just because Takatsu is the "closer." I've never understood that mentality. I mean, if you have Rivera or Gagne, fine, but no one else should get that automatic call, IMO.

 

This is not a second guess. I was thinking this when Shingo came out there for the ninth. Now the game is tied and I'm not sure what pitchers are left if they need extra innings. Maybe Vizcaino.

 

Hopefully we can win it in the bottom of the ninth so it won't matter.

Amen to that! It wouldn't have killed Hermanson to work the ninth. It isn't necessary to burn up your bullpen by using three different guys 1/3 of an inning each. Managers are overdoing it, because of the way the game has "evolved", especially where pitchers are concerned.

[sox-r-us]

I frankly am completely in the belief that this whole closer thing is focking over-rated

 

You go with who is pitching well

 

An inning is an inning....does not matter where it falls in the game

[whitesox91403]

This is exactly the reason why I have said sicne last season that Ozzie has a long way to go as far as being a manager. I was even pissed sitting out in LF on opening day when he lifted Buerhle for Shingo.

 

I know it's only The 3rd game of the season, but when Jose Contreras pitches like he does today, you need to win the game because they aren't going to be many like this.

[Guest JimH]

Not a good job by Guillen today, and Shingo didn't execute.

 

Guillen burned up the bullpen with the Minnesota series coming up, not smart.

 

It's not a huge series but you definitely want to set the tone and have all your ammunition ready when you're playing your biggest division rival.

 

I agree with those who said he overdid it today with bringing in guys for 1/3 inning apiece.

 

Hopefully he'll learn, show some faith in these guys to pitch to more than one guy. I do not disagree with him bringing Shingo in for the 9th but you could tell he wasn't locating the fastball with the first homerun. Guillen needed to have a backup plan in place to get that last out, he didn't, Sox end up losing.

 

It all comes down to who executes the best, and the bullpen didn't get the job done today. Farmer said in the post game this was an unfortunate loss but it will serve as a wake up call going into Minny.

 

Lastly ... they need to make Coco Crisp move his feet, brush him back or bust him inside a few times. He looked awfully comfortable up there going 4-7.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

An inning is not an inning in my opinion. There are a lot of guys who have proven they can't pitch the ninth (Hawkins, Politte, Maybe Dotel and Mota-jury is out). That said, Herm was pretty decent in the ninth last year. The book says you go with your closer in the ninth and I bet Shingo bounces back this weekend. Hopefully he doesn't face Mauer or Morneau should he play.

Edited April 7, 2005 by Punch and Judy Garland

[Rowand44]

An inning is not an inning in my opinion. There are a lot of guys who have proven they can't pitch the ninth (Hawkins, Politte, Maybe Dotel and Mota-jury is out). That said, Herm was pretty decent in the ninth last year. The book says you go with your closer in the ninth and I bet Shingo bounces back this weekend. Hopefully he doesn't face Mauer or Morneau should he play.

I agree. Shingo's our guy and he just blew it, period. He's blown 2 saves in his career and both were against cleveland they seem to have his number a bit. Shingo's going to be fine though, this was just a game where he left his pitches up and down the middle of the plate, he'll be fine though.

[jackie hayes]

I don't get it either, why a designated closer is so important. But there is a ton of resistance to any other design, so I can't fault a manager for using it. I have the impression that a lot of that comes from the bullpen. (You hear people saying that they want to have clearly defined roles. Plus, the closer role is considered such a plum.) When the players affected believe in something strongly, I don't know if there's much you can do to change that without causing major problems.

 

But still, I'm sympathetic to the main point.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Should of been a sweep, Ozzie totally f***ed up this game, and I am an Ozzie fan. He should of never lifted Dustin, who was our best pitcher coming out of spring training. Shingo in the Spring is not the greatest, as we saw last year and this year. Typical manager move, not to hurt feelings, let our stopper get an easy save, it's not like Dustin threw a hundred pitches, he should of left him in. An earlier person stated that Ozzie burned up our bullpen, wrong, and this is also where Ozzie messed up. Fine if Contreras is done, bring in Cotts but for only 1/3, then Politte for 1/3, and Marte for a 1/3. A 1/3 of an inning doesn't burn up our bullpen, it messed up our last pitcher who had to go more than 2 innings because there was no one left. Ozzie is to blame for this one, I hope there isn't many more like this one, we had momentum going to Minny.

[Guest JimH]

Should of been a sweep, Ozzie totally f***ed up this game, and I am an Ozzie fan. He should of never lifted Dustin, who was our best pitcher coming out of spring training. Shingo in the Spring is not the greatest, as we saw last year and this year. Typical manager move, not to hurt feelings, let our stopper get an easy save, it's not like Dustin threw a hundred pitches, he should of left him in. An earlier person stated that Ozzie burned up our bullpen, wrong, and this is also where Ozzie messed up. Fine if Contreras is done, bring in Cotts but for only 1/3, then Politte for 1/3, and Marte for a 1/3. A 1/3 of an inning doesn't burn up our bullpen, it messed up our last pitcher who had to go more than 2 innings because there was no one left. Ozzie is to blame for this one, I hope there isn't many more like this one, we had momentum going to Minny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair assessment, but remember it's not just the one batter they pitch to, it's all the warming up in the bullpen as well. That's taxing and it does shorten the bullpen. Suppose you need Cotts or Politte to go 2 2/3 innings tomorrow nite ... doubtful they could.

[GoodAsGould]

yeah but warming up is different than actual pitching... our bullpen should be fine and ready to go tommorow except for Vizcaino who shouldnt pitch till Sunday earliest.

 

On a sidenote i was kind of interested to see Widger pitch

Edited April 8, 2005 by SoxFan101

[quickman]

I had no problem bringing in shingo, its what he is paid to do. Rivera of the yankees got rocked twice in two games, do you not go to him. Of course you do. Not saying they are the same pitcher but the concept is the same. I am certain that Wedge would have gone back to wickman today if they had a one run lead. You figure your up by three going into the ninth, you have your closer who closed out a 1-0 ballgame two days ago. I would say no problem. It was a horrible game to watch especially being there. if this continues then I am sure Ozzie will get a feel for the bullpen. He learned from koch last year, he won't let this get out of hand.

 

By the way we will lose games this year. Just came to that conclusion.