White Sox @ Twins: 4/10/05 Game Thread

[Gene Honda Civic]

Sweeping the defending champs in their own house and beating their number 1 and 2 pitchers doesnt set a tone.  Are you kidding me.

Yeah, I have fond memories of when we did just that last year, and they awarded us the AL Central crown on the spot.... Oh wait.

[southsideirish71]

Still would've been 3-2, in the end.  Not exactly the difference maker.

 

You are going on a few assumptions. One that Mark approaches the pitching sequence to Torii the same way. 3-1 with Torii up with two men on. Do you load the bases for the next hitter or do you challenge him. Mark chose to challenge him. Does he make that same pitch if there is no men on base. Probably not. Maybe he does. Who knows.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Bottom 3rd: Minnesota

- L. Rivas singled to right

- S. Stewart flied out to center, L. Rivas to second

- J. Castro singled to right, L. Rivas to third

- J. Mauer struck out swinging

- M. LeCroy singled to left, L. Rivas scored, J. Castro to second

- T. Hunter homered to deep left, M. LeCroy and J. Castro scored

- L. Ford flied out to deep right

 

I'll assume you are talking the single to LF. That was a Crede muff?

Should he have been able to field it & thrown one of the runners out?

[nitetrain8601]

Bottom 3rd: Minnesota

- L. Rivas singled to right

- S. Stewart flied out to center, L. Rivas to second

- J. Castro singled to right, L. Rivas to third

- J. Mauer struck out swinging

- M. LeCroy singled to left, L. Rivas scored, J. Castro to second

- T. Hunter homered to deep left, M. LeCroy and J. Castro scored

- L. Ford flied out to deep right

 

I'll assume you are talking the single to LF.  That was a Crede muff?

Should he have been able to field it & thrown one of the runners out?

 

The LeCroy single to left yes. Crede stumbled a bit and tried to knock down the ball so it stayed in the infield without knowing that Uribe was behind him.

[southsideirish71]

Bottom 3rd: Minnesota

- L. Rivas singled to right

- S. Stewart flied out to center, L. Rivas to second

- J. Castro singled to right, L. Rivas to third

- J. Mauer struck out swinging

- M. LeCroy singled to left, L. Rivas scored, J. Castro to second

- T. Hunter homered to deep left, M. LeCroy and J. Castro scored

- L. Ford flied out to deep right

 

I'll assume you are talking the single to LF.  That was a Crede muff?

Should he have been able to field it & thrown one of the runners out?

 

Actually it was Uribes play. Crede had laid out trying to make the play and tipped the ball. Uribe would of thrown out LeCroy.

[Jabroni]

Still would've been 3-2, in the end.  Not exactly the difference maker.

 

And it looks like some just used the dreaded "if."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Say what? Crede's botched play led to the Twins scoring 4 runs with 2 outs in the 3rd inning. "If" Crede makes that play he would have ended the inning and those 4 runs would have never scored. The game would have been 2-1 Sox, in the end.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Jabroni

[CWSGuy406]

Say what?  Crede's botched play led to the Twins scoring 4 runs with 2 outs in that inning.  "If" he makes the play, the game would have been 2-1 Sox, in the end.

 

Yeah, well, it wasn't. Deal with it. We're 4-2, quit your b****ing.

[Jabroni]

Yeah, well, it wasn't.  Deal with it.  We're 4-2, quit your b****ing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just correcting what greasywheels121 said.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 09:54 PM)

Say what?  Crede's botched play led to the Twins scoring 4 runs with 2 outs in the 3rd inning.  "If" Crede makes that play, the game would have been 2-1 Sox in the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't go as far as saying that we would win the game because the three blind mice took over after that inning and I could only imagine what bulls*** calls would've been made in a 1-run game.

[Jabroni]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that we would win the game because the three blind mice took over after that inning and I could only imagine what bulls*** calls would've been made in a 1-run game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but I'd rather have a 2-1 lead while getting those bulls*** calls than trying to come back from a 5-2 deficit with the same garbage calls by the ump.

[Rowand44]

Honestly everyone, this is just one of those games where everything went wrong, it happens. I think when you love a team as much as most of us love the sox then every loss hurts even when you know you're going to lose a bunch over a course of a 162 game season. Everyone take a deep breath and move on, this truely has a chance to be a special year.

[SoxFanForever]

Honestly everyone, this is just one of those games where everything went wrong, it happens.  I think when you love a team as much as most of us love the sox then every loss hurts even when you know you're going to lose a bunch over a course of a 162 game season.  Everyone take a deep breath and move on, this truely has a chance to be a special year.

We lost, i'm jumping out the window now

[3E8]

If we can average 3.5 games above .500 each month (3 above one, 4 above the next), we will be around 21 games over .500 to end the season. I think that's a realistic goal to hope for.

[elrockinMT]

Hunter bested Buerhle and that sucks. But, Hunter had good things to say about Mark on ESPN after the game. He also said both teams love to play each other and it's fun. I don't like any Twinkie, but at least Torii was gracious and not trash talking tonight.

 

We did not play a good game and Santana put the Sox away after a bit of a rocky road early. I did like how Politte came back in the 8th though and came at the Twins after that botched pop in front of the plate and then the botched call at third on Hunter's steal. Dye made a real good play in right too. Sometimes you are afraid the pitcher will collapse but Cliff hung in there.

[elrockinMT]

We lost, i'm jumping out the window now 

 

You go first, but I'll be right behind you. Trust me...

[JUGGERNAUT]

Actually it was Uribes play.  Crede had laid out trying to make the play and tipped the ball.  Uribe would of thrown out LeCroy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, then you may be right about the 3-2 argument. It changes the next innings sequence for Mark.

 

Hunter, Ford, Cuddyer, Miller, Rivas, Stewart, Castro, Mauer, LeCroy, Hunter

The first 5 are probably outs but then comes Stewart. He had a walk & hit so I think he gets on.

 

Castro got a hit leading off the 5th so I see no reason why he wouldn't have done it with 2 outs & a RON 1. So we're looking at RON 1,3 .. 2 outs for Mauer. Basically you've got Mauer, LeCroy, & Hunter needing to either draw a walk or get a hit. Mark gave up 2 walks in that inning to Mauer & LeCroy so I think it's more likely MIN does push a run across. 3-2 Twins.

[CWSGuy406]

I'm gonna be honest here...

 

The Sox fan inside me hated watching Santana own us, but the baseball fan inside me loves watching Santana pitch. He sets up hitters beautifully, and I don't care if he was getting an inch or two off the plate, he was awesome tonight. When you can set up a 77 MPH changeup with a 94 MPH fastball, and have no glitch in your throwing motion, you're going to be tough to hit.

 

Tip your cap, go to Cleveland, and beat the s*** out of Millwood.

Edited April 11, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[Rowand44]

Tip your cap, go to Cleveland, and beat the s*** out of Millwood.

Bingo, that explains it all right there.

[southsideirish71]

I'm gonna be honest here...

 

The Sox fan inside me hated watching Santana own us, but the baseball fan inside me loves watching Santana pitch.  He sets up hitters beautifully, and I don't care if he was getting an inch or two off the plate, he was awesome tonight.  When you can set up a 77 MPH changeup with a 94 MPH fastball, and have no glitch in your throwing motion, you're going to be tough to hit.

 

Tip your cap, go to Cleveland, and beat the s*** out of Millwood.

 

Well at least we got a good look at Millwood and now can beat him silly.

[Flash Tizzle]

Tip your cap, go to Cleveland, and beat the s*** out of Millwood.

 

Personally, I'm tired of tipping my hat for Santana.

 

Eventually you have to develop a plan against him. Such as not swinging at the first two pitches; regardless of what is thrown. When you foul off Santanas changeup/fastball, its guages which pitch you're sitting on. In addition, nearly all his strikeouts are swinging. Usually because of a changeup in the dirt of a high fastball. This needs to be addressed.

 

Anything is appropriate to battle Santana. I'm simply tired of admiring him. These players have to learn how to win against Santana, because he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[Rowand44]

Personally, I'm tired of tipping my hat for Santana.

 

Eventually you have to develop a plan against him.  Such as not swinging at the first two pitches; regardless of what is thrown. When you foul off Santanas changeup/fastball, its guages which pitch you're sitting on.  In addition, nearly all his strikeouts are swinging. Usually because of a changeup in the dirt of a high fastball. This needs to be addressed.

 

Anything is appropriate to battle Santana. I'm simply tired of admiring him. These players have to learn how to win against Santana, because he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Once again tell this to the whole league. I'm actually pretty impressed the sox managed 2 runs off of him considering the strike zone he had to work with.

[JUGGERNAUT]

PLAY BY PLAY:

Top 1st: Chi White Sox

- P. Ozuna reached on bunt single to first

- T. Iguchi doubled to left, P. Ozuna to third

- C. Everett hit sacrifice fly to right, P. Ozuna scored, T. Iguchi to third

- P. Konerko flied out to center

- J. Dye popped out to shallow left center

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 1, Minnesota 0

 

There's just no excuse for not sending Iggy on the FO to CF. He's avg'd 30 SB/yr in Japan over the last 4 yrs. It was hit deep enough to where Mauer wasn't even covering the plate on the throw.

Score should be 2-0 WSox

 

Top 3rd: Chi White Sox 3-0 WSox

- J. Uribe singled to second & stole 2nd

- P. Ozuna sacrificed to pitcher, J. Uribe to third

- T. Iguchi hit sacrifice fly to center, J. Uribe scored

- C. Everett singled to third but Konerko K'd

 

Bottom 3rd: Minnesota

- L. Rivas singled to right

- S. Stewart flied out to center, L. Rivas to second

- J. Castro singled to right, L. Rivas to third

- J. Mauer struck out swinging

- M. LeCroy singled to left, L. Rivas scored, J. Castro to second

- T. Hunter homered to deep left, M. LeCroy and J. Castro scored

- L. Ford flied out to deep right

 

4 runs, 4 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 2, Minnesota 4

 

A RON 1,3 w 2 outs. Castro & Rivas have good speed but LeCroy doesn't. Uribe likely makes that play (if Crede doesn't interefere). 3-0 WSox

 

Top 5th: Chi White Sox RON 1,3 2 outs for Koney. bummer.

- C. Everett singled to center, T. Iguchi to third

- P. Konerko struck out swinging

 

Bottom 5th: Minnesota

- J. Castro singled to left

- J. Mauer walked, J. Castro to second

- M. LeCroy walked, J. Castro to third, J. Mauer to second

- T. Hunter grounded into fielder's choice, J. Castro scored, J. Mauer to third, M. LeCroy out at second

- L. Ford grounded into double play shortstop to second to first, T. Hunter out at second

 

Odds are Mark gives up a run here. 3-1 WSox

 

Top 7th: Chi White Sox RON 2, no outs .. missed op

- J. Crede doubled to right center

- J. Uribe struck out swinging

- P. Ozuna struck out looking

- T. Iguchi grounded out to third

 

Playing the avg's we get that run. 4-1 WSox.

 

Bottom 7th: Minnesota

- S. Stewart singled to second

- J. Castro sacrificed to pitcher, S. Stewart to second

- J. Mauer grounded out to first, S. Stewart to third

- M. LeCroy struck out looking

 

Playing the avg's they get that run. 4-2 WSox

 

Bottom 8th: Minnesota

- C. Politte relieved M. Buehrle

- T. Hunter safe at first on pitcher C. Politte's fielding error

- T. Hunter stole second

- L. Ford struck out looking

- T. Hunter stole third

- M. Cuddyer struck out looking

- C. Miller flied out to right

 

RON 3 w 1 out. Playing the avg's they score. 4-3 WSox.

 

Top 9th: Chi White Sox

- J. Nathan relieved J. Rincon

- A.J. Pierzynski singled to right

- S. Podsednik hit for J. Crede

- S. Podsednik flied out to center

- W. Harris hit for J. Uribe

- A.J. Pierzynski to second on passed ball

- W. Harris struck out looking

- P. Ozuna grounded out to first

 

RON 2, 1 out but slow feet. Avg's would say we don't score. 4-3 WSox.

 

 

If Uribe makes that play & tonight falls along the avg's we're looking at 4-3 WSox w the Twins coming to bat in the 9th w Rivas Stewart Casto Mauer or something close to that. It could go either way. There isn't much history there but they do have some hits against Shingo. I think Momentum would definitely be in the favor having scored the last 2 runs.

 

I think extra innings favors the Twins because Nathan has the #'s over 30 pitches. I'm just being honest. He threw 12 pitches in the top of the 9th.

 

I don't know if it helps or not but in all likelihood based on how we pitched tonight & they pitched tonight we still lose this game. Maybe a 5-4 loss in extra innings is easier to take than a 5-2 loss but it's still a loss. The one consolation prize is that we didn't use up our pen in that effort so we should be fresh & ready to battle CLE on Mon.

 

Pitches-strikes

WSox: M Buehrle 100-66; C Politte 10-9;

Twins: J Santana 108-82; J Rincon 19-11; J Nathan 12-9.

 

Unlike some of you I don't think he resembled a Cy Young pitcher tonight.

His hits & MOB #'s were not Cy Young-esqe. We should have tagged him for 3R & a possibly a 4th. But if you look at the play by play they are more likely the winners of tonight's game.

 

We won the series. Time to move on. Next up CLE.

Edited April 11, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 10, 2005 -> 10:54 PM)

PLAY BY PLAY:

Top 1st: Chi White Sox

- P. Ozuna reached on bunt single to first

- T. Iguchi doubled to left, P. Ozuna to third

- C. Everett hit sacrifice fly to right, P. Ozuna scored, T. Iguchi to third

- P. Konerko flied out to center

- J. Dye popped out to shallow left center

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 1, Minnesota 0

 

There's just no excuse for not sending Iggy on the FO to CF.  He's avg'd 30 SB/yr in Japan over the last 4 yrs.  It was hit deep enough to where Mauer wasn't even covering the plate on the throw. 

Score should be 2-0 WSox

 

  Top 3rd: Chi White Sox  3-0 WSox

- J. Uribe singled to second & stole 2nd

- P. Ozuna sacrificed to pitcher, J. Uribe to third

- T. Iguchi hit sacrifice fly to center, J. Uribe scored

- C. Everett singled to third but Konerko K'd

 

  Bottom 3rd: Minnesota

- L. Rivas singled to right

- S. Stewart flied out to center, L. Rivas to second

- J. Castro singled to right, L. Rivas to third

- J. Mauer struck out swinging

- M. LeCroy singled to left, L. Rivas scored, J. Castro to second

- T. Hunter homered to deep left, M. LeCroy and J. Castro scored

- L. Ford flied out to deep right

 

4 runs, 4 hits, 0 errors

Chi White Sox 2, Minnesota 4

 

A RON 1,3 w 2 outs.  Castro & Rivas have good speed but LeCroy doesn't.  Uribe likely makes that play (if Crede doesn't interefere).  3-0 WSox

 

Top 5th: Chi White Sox RON 1,3 2 outs for Koney.  bummer.

- C. Everett singled to center, T. Iguchi to third

- P. Konerko struck out swinging

 

Bottom 5th: Minnesota

- J. Castro singled to left

- J. Mauer walked, J. Castro to second

- M. LeCroy walked, J. Castro to third, J. Mauer to second

- T. Hunter grounded into fielder's choice, J. Castro scored, J. Mauer to third, M. LeCroy out at second

- L. Ford grounded into double play shortstop to second to first, T. Hunter out at second

 

Odds are Mark gives up a run here.  3-1 WSox

 

  Top 7th: Chi White Sox RON 2, no outs .. missed op

- J. Crede doubled to right center 

- J. Uribe struck out swinging

- P. Ozuna struck out looking

- T. Iguchi grounded out to third

 

Playing the avg's we get that run. 4-1 WSox. 

 

Bottom 7th: Minnesota

- S. Stewart singled to second

- J. Castro sacrificed to pitcher, S. Stewart to second

- J. Mauer grounded out to first, S. Stewart to third

- M. LeCroy struck out looking

 

Playing the avg's they get that run.  4-2 WSox

 

  Bottom 8th: Minnesota

- C. Politte relieved M. Buehrle

- T. Hunter safe at first on pitcher C. Politte's fielding error

- T. Hunter stole second

- L. Ford struck out looking

- T. Hunter stole third

- M. Cuddyer struck out looking 

- C. Miller flied out to right

 

RON 3 w 1 out.  Playing the avg's they score.  4-3 WSox.

 

  Top 9th: Chi White Sox

- J. Nathan relieved J. Rincon

- A.J. Pierzynski singled to right

- S. Podsednik hit for J. Crede

- S. Podsednik flied out to center

- W. Harris hit for J. Uribe

- A.J. Pierzynski to second on passed ball

- W. Harris struck out looking

- P. Ozuna grounded out to first

 

RON 2, 1 out but slow feet.  Avg's would say we don't score.  4-3 WSox.

If Uribe makes that play & tonight falls along the avg's we're looking at 4-3 WSox w the Twins coming to bat in the 9th w Rivas Stewart Casto Mauer or something close to that.  It could go either way. There isn't much history there but they do have some hits against Shingo.  I think Momentum would definitely be in the favor having scored the last 2 runs. 

 

I think extra innings favors the Twins because Nathan has the #'s over 30 pitches.  I'm just being honest.  He threw 12 pitches in the top of the 9th.

 

I don't know if it helps or not but in all likelihood based on how we pitched tonight & they pitched tonight we still lose this game.  Maybe a 5-4 loss in extra innings is easier to take than a 5-2 loss but it's still a loss.  The one consolation prize is that we didn't use up our pen in that effort so we should be fresh & ready to battle CLE on Mon.

 

Pitches-strikes

WSox: M Buehrle 100-66; C Politte 10-9;

Twins:  J Santana 108-82; J Rincon 19-11; J Nathan 12-9.

 

Unlike some of you I don't think he resembled a Cy Young pitcher tonight.

His hits & MOB #'s were not Cy Youngese. We should have tagged for 3R & a possible 4th.  But if you look at the play by play & apply they are more likely the winners of tonight's game.

 

We won the series.  Time to move on.  Next up CLE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:headshake

LMFAO!!!

"Playing the averages."

 

You statheads really amuse me. Did you actually watch the game? :banghead

[Flash Tizzle]

Once again tell this to the whole league.  I'm actually pretty impressed the sox managed 2 runs off of him considering the strike zone he had to work with.

 

No doubt Santana is one of the American League's best pitchers. I'm merely worried this tipping-hat mentality is felt among players as well. Such as: "Santana is good. Let's move on and forget about it." Then when September rolls around and we need a win, but are disgraced with a 12K performance, we're left clueless because noone bothered to assemble some plan against Santana. I hope our players approach him different their next start.

 

Although I agree collecting 7 hits off Santana over 7 innings is impressive. However, how was Iguchi able to hit twice off Johan, despite never seeing him prior to today? Some of our players need to ask him his approach and follow it.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[Rowand44]

No doubt Santana is one of the American League's best pitchers.  I'm merely worried this tipping-hat mentality is felt among players as well. Such as: "Santana is good. Let's move on and forget about it." Then when September rolls around and we need a win, but are disgraced with a 12K performance, we're left clueless because noone bothered to assemble some plan against Santana. I hope our players approach him different their next start.

 

Although I agree collecting 7 hits off Santana over 7 innings is impressive. However, how was Iguchi able to hit twice off Johan, despite never seeing him prior to today? Some of our players need to ask him his approach and follow it.

Fair enough Flash and good point about Gooch. I actually was pretty satisfied with the offense early on, they were doing the little things well and manufacturing runs. The problem was after that every single thing was called a strike and really with Johan having that big of a strike zone you almost have no chance.