Mathew Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I'm not on a bandwagon, I've hated Billy Botch for years now. The trade, ummmm guess what, yep hated that too. He throws straight fastballs, so he doesn't strike batters out like a hard throwing closer should. He relies on a good team to bail him out and make him a good closer. He is often wild and therefore forced to locate his dead straight fastball over the fat part of the plate. "The point I was making was that guys like Koch and Armando Benitez who are known as hard throwers have s***ty games like this." At leats Benitez strikes people out. Botch doesn't nearly enough. When I saw him at Comiskey he didn't break 86 on the gun there, assuming it is 5-7 mph to low, Koch is way down in velocity. Finally Botch's E.R.A. by season. 7.36 3.27 4.80 2.63 3.39 Marte last season bb18 k72 era2.83 Botch(in a good year for both) 46 93 3.27 Baggio make way on the Marte wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebeck Fan Club Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I believe that Koch will have a decent season. It's not the games you blow (because every closer blows saves, even Rivera a couple of years ago), it's when you do it. We're facing a hot team at home, with a great chance to close in on the division lead, and this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Koch is doing the exact samething that Keith Foulke did. Some how he caught "big-gameitis". He can't close out the big games. Foulke was the sameway. Remember his adventures against teams like the Yankees, Mariners, and Twins? You can't crucify Koch for this without saying the exact samethings about Foulke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 they can't, but they do. you guys act like Foulke was immune to blowing big games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Foulke was one of my favorite Sox players of recent vintage. I didn't like the way he was handled, especially last year. Like I have said on numerous occasions all closers even the biggest studs sometimes blow big games. Even the great Mariano Rivera. Still, after all that transpired Keith wanted and needed a change of scene. Those of you who are critical of Koch, calling him a one pitch wonder, etc.,etc I hear ya. But please, it's a little early to give up on the guy. He's blown two saves so far. If he can keep it in the 5-7 range for the season and have 40+ saves he'll be OK in my book. Also, it is not unusual for flame throwers to have lower than normal velocity at the beginning of the year. I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Koch just yet. I'm worried but not panicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Though I didn't mention Foulke in my post, I suppose I will now since that's being pushed. Foulke is better than Koch. No closer is immune to Blown saves, nobody claimed that. But Koch and his dead straight fastballs, have shown that he succeptible(moreso than other pitchers we have and have had) to blown saves. He has been like that since he came to the league, because he hasn't got movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Though I didn't mention Foulke in my post, I suppose I will now since that's being pushed. Foulke is better than Koch. No closer is immune to Blown saves, nobody claimed that. But Koch and his dead straight fastballs, have shown that he succeptible(moreso than other pitchers we have and have had) to blown saves. He has been like that since he came to the league, because he hasn't got movement. Like I said in my post I do hear you Mathew. Perhaps Cooper can get to him to use some off speed stuff now and then so guys like Sweeney won't be sitting on the dead red fastball. I still want to give him a little more time, he has had some success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Like I said in my post I do hear you Mathew. Perhaps Cooper can get to him to use some off speed stuff now and then so guys like Sweeney won't be sitting on the dead red fastball. I still want to give him a little more time, he has had some success. We have to give him more time, he makes 5.5 million dollars a year or sonmething like that. I'm just sick of the he wants the ball so he's good story, he may want the ball but a lot of the other hitters in the league want him to have it to. He is an effective closer on a team with good defense and late inning offense to bail him out.(Oakland fine example us not so much). I cheer like hell when he goes in and gets 3 outs don't get me wrong, but when he gets blasted for 4 runs per bad outing I will not have people piss in my ear and tell me it's raining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 We're talking about replacing Koch after 13 games? Correct me if I'm wrong but..didnt we get Koch to be our definite closer and to make everyone's role defined? Koch has been a closer for how many years now? And after 13 games, we're talking about replacing him? Does this sound like 2002 to you? Foulke blows a couple of saves and loses his job. Enough tinkering, Koch is our closer until he blows 10 saves in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 We're talking about replacing Koch after 13 games? Correct me if I'm wrong but..didnt we get Koch to be our definite closer and to make everyone's role defined? Koch has been a closer for how many years now? And after 13 games, we're talking about replacing him? Does this sound like 2002 to you? Foulke blows a couple of saves and loses his job. Enough tinkering, Koch is our closer until he blows 10 saves in a row. some of us didnt want koch as our "definate closer".. ithink thats the point we are trying to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I think it is a good thing we don't make decisions for this team. It would be pretty f***ed up if we traded everyone when they have a few bad games. Magglio, you haven't had a base hit in two games.....time to send you away! Sorry, I just think people are getting a little too crazy too early about this. Give the guy the benefit of a full season or atleast until he blows 10 in a row like stated above. I still think he can get it done. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Baseball isn't a sprint, its a marathon. A few things to consider, the Sox are 8-6 so far. They've won 3 out of 4 series. In the last five games, KC has come from behind. Like the 2000 Sox, they are good and bringing in late game runs. And after what happened last night with fans on the field, didn't you think it lit a fire under the Royals' ass to hand us ours? Fact is, when s*** like that happens, the home team doesnt deserve to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Nobody said trade Magglio don't make your arguement by putting words in people's mouths. Some said don't trade for Botch period. I for one still say that, but since we have him I would like to see him not giving up 4 runs per outing each time he see's KC, if a way to avoid that is to put him in a different situation I am for it, as I was last week, last month, yesterday. If Botch blows ten saves in a row, I'll fly back to Chicago to run on the field and attack him. Kansas city hasn't proven they score runs late a la 2000 Sox, they've proven they hit dead straight fastballs a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I think it is a good thing we don't make decisions for this team. This is one thought that has crossed my mind many times since the start of spring training games. Someone has a 0-fer or a pitcher gets roughed up, and it's a freaking disaster. "Trade him" or "Cut him" or "He sucks" or "f*** Kenny for trading for him". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 ok well heres my two cents worth.. everyone whos not named maggs, frank, miguel, and mark must be either traded or just cut loose so we can bring up everyone whos named joe, aaron, and jim..........oh throw in a neal too for s***s and giggles......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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