Mariners @ Sox Game Thread (4/17, 2:05 p.m. CT)

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(knightni @ Apr 17, 2005 -> 05:13 PM)

I said that awhile back.

 

Garcia is average. Not a #1.

 

I can see 12-13 wins, with an ERA of 3.90-4.30.

 

And, that is optomistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jon Garland is an average pitcher.

Freddy Garcia is better than Garland.

Therefore Garcia is not an average pitcher.

 

I showed you that Garcia's road numbers with the Sox last season were just as good or better than Mark Buehrle's, Johan Santana's, and Randy Johnson's. Did you miss the facts? He won 9 games with us last year in less than 3 and 1/2 months with a crappy offense (no Maggs or Frank) and he even missed a couple of starts.

 

EDIT: I found the post.

 

QUOTE(knightni @ Apr 2, 2005 -> 04:25 PM)

#2 - Looking at him since the trade, Garcia still seems shaky. Pretty average really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Average?

(road stats last season)

 

Player A:

3.25 ERA

1.04 WHIP

.585 OPS against

10.15 K/9

 

Player B:

2.58 ERA

.926 WHIP

.576 OPS against

9.73 K/9

 

Player C:

2.77 ERA

.88 WHIP

.541 OPS against

10.17 K/9

 

Player D:

2.63 ERA

1.07 WHIP

.631 OPS against

6.03 K/9

 

Would you consider all or any of these players "average?"

Edited April 17, 2005 by santo=dorf

[Flash Tizzle]

If Guillen was critical of Harris before today's 9th inning caught-stealing, his opinion of Willie has further deterioated. This has to absolutely tear him apart.

 

I don't believe we'll see Harris for a LOOONNNGGG time.

Edited April 17, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[Jabroni]

f*** that....terrible managing by Ozzie....yet again.  You can't make the last out trying to steal a f***ing base.  Nice to see our former players (Olivo, Valdez) beat us today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ozzie was trying to get the tying run in scoring position with 2 outs. What the hell is wrong with that? It's not Ozzie's fault that Willie doesn't know how to steal a friggin' base. He should have tagged on Uribe's sac fly anyways. Willie may have all the speed in the world but since he's a garbage baserunner, he will never do anything with it. :headshake

 

Olivo is usually 50% or better on catching runners stealing.  We already know Willie gets bad jumps so it was a bad idea.  We probably still lose if he doesn't run though.

 

Dye's error and Garcia's subsequent meltdown cost us this game today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Dye's error was the turning point in the game. That was ugly. :puke

Edited April 17, 2005 by Jabroni

[jackie hayes]

So if I'm understanding this right, Willie is supposed to have the ability to steal bases at will. So even 1 caught stealing means he sucks. Does the same logic apply to Pods?

[3E8]

I don't think you can blame Willie too much. Stealing against the battery of a left-handed pitcher and a catcher with a nice arm isn't ever guaranteed.

[Jabroni]

So if I'm understanding this right, Willie is supposed to have the ability to steal bases at will.  So even 1 caught stealing means he sucks.  Does the same logic apply to Pods?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on, man. It has been common knowledge that Willie has a ton of speed but he's a bad base-stealer. Keep trying to deny it if you want. Olivo has a gun and it may not have even been a bad jump by Willie today, but that doesn't change the fact that Willie is a poor base-stealer.

Edited April 17, 2005 by Jabroni

[Dick Allen]

I don't think you can blame Willie too much.  Stealing against the battery of a left-handed pitcher and a catcher with a nice arm isn't ever guaranteed.

 

What Willie should have done is tag up on the Uribe flyball to CF. Reed was not in position to get off a strong throw.

[jackie hayes]

Come on, man.  It has been common knowledge that Willie has a ton of speed but he's a bad base-stealer.  Keep trying to deny it if you want.

Ah. So you're blaming this on Ozzie, I guess, saying that he should never put Willie in as a pinch runner and allow him to steal? I mean, if it was so obvious, certainly Ozzie should have seen that.

[CWSGuy406]

Ah.  So you're blaming this on Ozzie, I guess, saying that he should never put Willie in as a pinch runner and allow him to steal?  I mean, if it was so obvious, certainly Ozzie should have seen that.

 

Jackie -- tell me that I'm coming home seeing the loss blamed on Harris?

[Butter Parque]

I stll love Willie, It just bewilders me about how this guy either gets caught stealing or gets picked off so much. But Ozzie had the right idea, it just didn't wok out. Blame this one on s*** pitching from garcia and that s***ty middle of the lineup we put out everyday.

 

That goes for:

 

Dye

Pierzynski

Rowand (I still like ya)

[jackie hayes]

Olivo has a gun and it may not have even been a bad jump by Willie today, but that doesn't change the fact that Willie is a poor base-stealer.

So basically your comment had squat to do with this game, even though you were referring to the game?

[jackie hayes]

Jackie -- tell me that I'm coming home seeing the loss blamed on Harris?

Well, noone will come out and say it as clearly as that, but judge the comments yourself...

[CWSGuy406]

So basically your comment had squat to do with this game, even though you were referring to the game?

 

I was at the game, Harris had a real good jump -- or so it seemed to me. IMHO he looked like he got under the tag, but it was a bang-bang play. Did they show a replay on TV? Was he safe or out?

[Dick Allen]

Dye's error changed the dynamic of that big inning. Who knows what happens if he plays it cleanly. Ichiro would have been pitched to and he might have put another one in the seats, or maybe they get him out. Garcia wasn't sharp today, but battled. Everett hit a big HR, but Ks with guys at 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. Then Konerko grounds out. This smallball or smartball as they now call it, fancies itself on scoring in that situation. The offense continues to struggle, but they still have taken 2 out of 3 four times. If the Sox win 2 out of 3 all season, they'll win the World Series.

[jackie hayes]

I was at the game, Harris had a real good jump -- or so it seemed to me.  IMHO he looked like he got under the tag, but it was a bang-bang play.  Did they show a replay on TV?  Was he safe or out?

I don't know, I haven't seen it. Noone's claimed he got a bad jump, or that Olivo got off a bad throw. We've all seen Olivo's arm, but that doesn't matter I gather. If only Harris wants to steal the base, it should always be possible. :banghead

[CWSGuy406]

Oh -- and our leadoff hitter went 2-9 with a walk this series...

[qwerty]

Garbage base stealers usually do not steal at an 80% clip or higher.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Konerko has hti the long ball but has been brutal thus far in key spots. It's hard to argue with sending Willie because the odds of getting either Ozuna to have an extra-base hit or to string together two more consecutive hits were remote. I don't think it was a bad call by Ozzie at all. Would Tito have been an idiot if Dave Roberts were thrown out by the Yankes? I would hope not. The same problems came up today that have plagued this team so far which are as follows:

 

1.A surprising lack of exeuction which is critical for a team built on the necessity of offensive execution

 

2. A general lack of aggressiveness with stealing when the right guys are up. We've seen the wrong guys like Carl get sent but I'd like to see more attempts with some of the other guys.

 

3. Just nobody hitting. Crazy Carl has been rpetty good and Gooch has been fine but everyone else has been awful. Hopefully AJ, Rowand, and Dye all come out of this really soon.

[Dick Allen]

I am no fan of Harris, but he absolutely had to get to 2nd base. He got thrown out. It happens. I don't know how you can blame the game on him. Ozuna still would have needed to get a hit for him to score. If Uribe would have grounded into a DP instead of lifting a flyball to CF people would have been complaining that Harris should have tried to steal.

[Rowand44]

Well, I had to leave to go to some stupid f***in family dinner before the bottom of the 9th so I didn't see what happened but I'm personally not going to get mad at Willie for getting thrown out by one of the better arms in the league, I personally don't like that decision for ozzie to send him there because willie isn't a good base stealer but I can also see why ozzie would do that, to me it just sounds like we got beat. As for people calling freddy an average pitcher cause he had 2 bad innings today, GMAFB.

[GoodAsGould]

Dye's error changed the dynamic of that big inning. Who knows what happens if he plays it cleanly. Ichiro would have been pitched to and he might have put another one in the seats, or maybe they get him out. Garcia wasn't sharp today, but battled. Everett hit a big HR, but Ks with guys at 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. Then Konerko grounds out. This smallball or smartball as they now call it, fancies itself on scoring in that situation. The offense continues to struggle, but they still have taken 2 out of 3 four times. If the Sox win 2 out of 3 all season, they'll win the World Series.

 

 

Everett did not K... the ump K'd him... it was a bad call clearly. I think this loss though should really be pinned on Jermaine Dye if your going to try and blame someone. Not only is he not hitting anything at all but than he makes that stupid error... He needs to get his head out of his ass and start playing like a major leaguer.

[Dick Allen]

Everett did not K... the ump K'd him... it was a bad call clearly.  I think this loss though should really be pinned on Jermaine Dye if your going to try and blame someone.  Not only is he not hitting anything at all but than he makes that stupid error...  He needs to get his head out of his ass and start playing like a major leaguer.

I don't know what the replay showed. I was sitting in row 1 of section 145, and if I was an impartial umpire, I'd have run Everett up. It looked like he swung. I told my friend right after the pitch that I hope they don't appeal.

[Rowand44]

I don't know what the replay showed. I was sitting in row 1 of section 145, and if I was an impartial umpire, I'd have run Everett up. It looked like he swung. I told my friend right after the pitch that I hope they don't appeal.

It wasn't even close to a swing, awful call.

[Guest JimH]

I was on the 3rd base side in the club level, had a great view of the Everett call.

 

Horrible call, and it was no surprise that Everett got hot at the 3rd base ump. It was a really, really bad call at a crucial time.

 

Sox didn't execute though, and Garcia got himself in trouble.

 

Guillen said Harris was stealing on his own in the 9th inning, or at least that's what I thought I heard on the postgame press conference.

 

The blame for this game is as follows:

 

- Sox bats didn't execute, with a small assist from the 3rd base ump with that brutal call on Everett

 

- Dye's error was a big time f*** up. He let the ball play him.

 

- Garcia dug himself a hole in that one big inning and it came back to bite him.

 

As for Willie Harris, he needed to try and get into scoring position. If this team needs Willie Harris to steal a base to have a chance to tie the game ... then other things have gone wrong. Can't blame this game on Harris, no way. I know what we have in Harris, and IMO he is not the guy to rely on to execute with the game on the line. The game was lost well before that.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Today was yet another sign of how this year will be hit or miss. This team is last in what many GM's in the majors call the most important stat: OBP. That means it's not going to blow any one out like in the past. Nearly every game will be a battle to the end. Do we have the personnel to pull off that kind of day to day struggle?

 

Thomas can't get here any sooner. Koney stated during the off-season how important his presence alone is to the lineup. His career 429 OBP is worth a ton to this team.

 

I'm already looking forward to the lineups with Thomas:

Pods, Guch, Thomas, Koney, Everett(RF), Rowand, AJ, Crede, Uribe

Uribe, Guch, Thomas, Koney, Everett(LF), Dye, Rowand, AJ, Crede

Pods(CF), Guch, Thomas, Koney, Everett(LF), Dye, AJ, Crede

Pods,Guch, Everett(DH), Koney, Dye, Rowand, AJ, Crede, Uribe

That will lead to Everett starting 4 out of every 7 games as Oz looks to rest his regulars at least once every 7 games.

 

That's not a bad strategy when you consider how it strengthens the bench for CL&Late sits. I think when Thomas returns this lineup will be poised to take off. Especially when you consider that Koney will be feeding off a pitcher that has exhausted an avg of 10 pitches on Thomas. When he loses the battle & surrenders the hit or the walk it makes it all that much tougher to face Koney.

 

I think that will help Everett & Dye as well. Thomas will be turning 37 soon so it's reasonable to expect him to start no more than 6/7 days. I wouldn't be surprised if they look for my days off with him with the ankle.

 

Contreras vs Lohse, Hernandez vs Radke at the Cell. Let's say sayonara to the loathesome Twinkees until Jul with a sweep.

Edited April 18, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT