Ozzie vs. Frank, round one?

[Steff]

So are you saying that you know for a fact that he didn't talk to his players about it before he went to the press? For that matter directly after? How about just to Frank? If you don't know for a fact then it is an assumption.

 

 

I think his point is why tell the media this stuff (about attitude problems) at all..?

 

 

Jackie just slap me if I'm assuming wrong.

[jackie hayes]

So are you saying that you know for a fact that he didn't talk to his players about it before he went to the press? For that matter directly after? How about just to Frank? If you don't know for a fact then it is an assumption.

Um, no. I'm not assuming anything at all. Because it doesn't matter.

 

Suppose we assume exactly the opposite of what you assume I'm assuming. (I assume you follow?) So we assume that Ozzie told his players first. That makes it necessary to go moan to reporters after? That's somehow productive? You said he wants to communicate to his players. Fine, tell THEM.

[Steff]

All this assuming is making me hungry...

 

 

Lunch time..

[AddisonStSox]

You're the boss Ozzie, we know.

 

Now, can we please just play some baseball?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 06:03 PM)

I think his point is why tell the media this stuff (about attitude problems) at all..? 

Jackie just slap me if I'm assuming wrong. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is not what his first comment was Steff. His first comment was that he just made the comments in the paper. Then he states that it is assumption his foot. I think by going to the press with it he is just making an even bigger statement. He is saying it even louder. This is his team. He doesn't want selfish attitudes, not even from one of the greatest White Sox players in the history of the game. As far as I can see he didn't let out anything private. He told it the way it is and the type of attitude he wants from his team.

[jackie hayes]

I think his point is why tell the media this stuff (about attitude problems) at all..? 

Jackie just slap me if I'm assuming wrong. 

Nah, I assume you understand what I'm saying. And assuming.

[Steff]

That is not what his first comment was Steff. His first comment was that he just made the comments in the paper. Then he states that it is assumption his foot. I think by going to the press with it he is just making an even bigger statement. He is saying it even louder. This is his team. He doesn't want selfish attitudes, not even from one of the greatest White Sox players in the history of the game. As far as I can see he didn't let out anything private. He told it the way it is and the type of attitude he wants from his team.

 

 

I'm all confused... as I have no idea what you said here...

 

 

 

 

Going to eat lunch.. maybe I'll be at full brain power when I get back..

[TheBigHurt35]

Ugggh... not this crap again. :headshake

 

I'm certainly open to theories that the media and/or the Sox front office has it in for Frank. But it seems that Frank's involved in just a few too many "bad PR" incidents to completely absolve him from blame (the big piss fight with Jerry Manuel in Spring Training a few years ago, Paulie calling him out in the press a couple years ago, Frank whining about his contract to the press on a number of occasions, etc.). Here's how I see it...

 

-The Chicago media doesn't like Frank

 

-The Sox front office wants some bad PR on him to keep his contract price down

 

-Frank has an ego the size of Montana and is frustrated because of his diminished skills, inability to stay healthy, smaller contracts, his team's inability to win, and a general lack of respect for him by the front office and the media

 

-Ozzie never liked Frank and is using his managerial power to settle a personal vendetta

[ISF]

If running into the wall making a play makes you a bad outfielder, I must wonder why an outfielder as crappy as Rowand is playing CF for us.

 

Dye is no longer the fleet of foot guy he used to be. Everett covers as much ground. He's fearless out there, like Rowand.

 

Probably doesn't have as good an instinct as Dye on getting jumps, but this is a guy who was playing CF for Texas a few years ago. He can hold his own out there just fine.

 

Dye will have to pick it up with the bat if he wants PT when Frank returns.

 

Either that or hope the groin keeps getting hurt.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 06:05 PM)

Um, no.  I'm not assuming anything at all.  Because it doesn't matter.

 

Suppose we assume exactly the opposite of what you assume I'm assuming.  (I assume you follow?)  So we assume that Ozzie told his players first.  That makes it necessary to go moan to reporters after?  That's somehow productive?  You said he wants to communicate to his players.  Fine, tell THEM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like I stated before, both he and Frank were wrong. Neither should have said what they said to the press.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ISF @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 06:09 PM)

If running into the wall making a play makes you a bad outfielder, I must wonder why an outfielder as crappy as Rowand is playing CF for us.

 

Dye is no longer the fleet of foot guy he used to be. Everett covers as much ground. He's fearless out there, like Rowand.

 

Probably doesn't have as good an instinct as Dye on getting jumps, but this is a guy who was playing CF for Texas a few years ago. He can hold his own out there just fine.

 

Dye will have to pick it up with the bat if he wants PT when Frank returns.

 

Either that or hope the groin keeps getting hurt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Everett does not have half the arm Dye does and I would disagree with you about their range. Comparing Everett to Rowand is flat out ridiculous. I don't think anyone wants Everett playing CF for them anymore.

 

I would assume he would be playing LF in either case. If Pods and Everett plays then Carl would play LF, Pods CF, and Rowand RF. If Dye and Everett play then we already know that situation.

 

I would much rather have Dye playing full time than Crazy Carl. I am sure he will turn it around.

[jackie hayes]

Like I stated before, both he and Frank were wrong. Neither should have said what they said to the press.

Okay. Well that's strange, since just a minute ago you were defending Ozzie speaking out to reporters, saying that it was merely "saying it even louder. This is his team...He told it the way it is and the type of attitude he wants from his team."

 

Well, so we agree that Ozzie was an ass for saying this to the press. I still disagree on Frank, but at least we agree on one thing.

[KevHead0881]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a bigger issue here than it will be with Ozzie, Frank and the rest of the team?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 06:15 PM)

Okay.  Well that's strange, since just a minute ago you were defending Ozzie speaking out to reporters, saying that it was merely "saying it even louder. This is his team...He told it the way it is and the type of attitude he wants from his team."

 

Well, so we agree that Ozzie was an ass for saying this to the press.  I still disagree on Frank, but at least we agree on one thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No I would not say an ass. But I agree he shouldn't have said it, but Frank shouldn't ahve either.

[AddisonStSox]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a bigger issue here than it will be with Ozzie, Frank and the rest of the team?

 

Let's hope so.

 

Hopefully Frank realizes that Ozzie speaks first and thinks second. Ozzie is a classic example of not thinking before you speak. I think Frank knows the score and will just show up and play ball.

 

He's getting too old for this petty bulls***.

[EvilJester99]

Why do I get the feeling that this is a bigger issue here than it will be with Ozzie, Frank and the rest of the team?

Because we are fans and are very prone to overreacting....

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 06:17 PM)

Let's hope so.

 

Hopefully Frank realizes that Ozzie speaks first and thinks second.  Ozzie is a classic example of not thinking before you speak.  I think Frank knows the score and will just show up and play ball.

 

He's getting too old for this petty bulls***.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you can put the Frank into the same category as not thinking before they speak. The only thing Ozzie kind of has on his side is that English is not his first language. It is much harder for him to say exactly what he means and I am sure a lot of stuff doesn't come out right. Frank is no angel here, and he has made many mistakes about what he says to the media. He has been very consistent in the past about saying things without thinking.

[AddisonStSox]

As previously stated, I don't think this interview will mean the demise of the "happy" Sox clubhouse.

 

This is Ozzie we are talking about here; no suprise. Why are people getting so huffy?

Edited April 18, 2005 by AddisonStSox

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Hopefully it isn't even a big deal for Frank and Ozzie.

 

I mean, it's no secret that Ozzie basically talks without thinking half the time...

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 06:24 PM)

Hopefully it isn't even a big deal for Frank and Ozzie.

 

I mean, it's no secret that Ozzie basically talks without thinking half the time...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

and so does Frank.

[KevHead0881]

Because we are fans and are very prone to overreacting....

 

Fair enough.

 

I just think this situation will be taken for what it is: Ozzie just being Ozzie. We've always known him as a guy who shoots from the lip, and when you talk as freely and as open as Ozzie does, your bound to say stupid s*** once in a while. I've always liked Ozzie and his free speaking ways and for the most part, the players seem to as well.

 

Was Ozzie wrong? Sure. But I just don't see it being a big deal with the team. They understand the way Ozzie ticks.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Fair enough.

 

I just think this situation will be taken for what it is:  Ozzie just being Ozzie.  We've always known him as a guy who shoots from the lip, and when you talk as freely and as open as Ozzie does, your bound to say stupid s*** once in a while.  I've always liked Ozzie and his free speaking ways and for the most part, the players seem to as well.

 

Was Ozzie wrong?  Sure.  But I just don't see it being a big deal with the team.  They understand the way Ozzie ticks.

 

[Dick Allen]

If you want to run a professional, first-class operation, then your people from the top down to the bottom have to act it. Whether or not this is just some sort of inside joke, or motivational tool, or just popping off, it doesn't look good to players around baseball. What if next off-season the White Sox want to sign a free agent but he doesn't want to come here for fear of being blasted in the press for no reason at all. Keep this sort of stuff in-house. Ozzie being Ozzie may be cute for a while then it just gets silly.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

If you want to run a professional, first-class operation, then your people from the top down to the bottom have to act it. Whether or not this is just some sort of inside joke, or motivational tool, or just popping off, it doesn't look good to players around baseball. What if next off-season the White Sox want to sign a free agent but he doesn't want to come here for fear of being blasted in the press for no reason at all. Keep this sort of stuff in-house. Ozzie being Ozzie may be cute for a while then it just gets silly.

 

baker gets away with saying even dumber s*** yet he's considered a "player's coach."

 

I would not think it would be much of a problem, especially if current players spread the word that they are happy with him. Damn, I hope they are...

[fathom]

If running into the wall making a play makes you a bad outfielder, I must wonder why an outfielder as crappy as Rowand is playing CF for us.

 

Dye is no longer the fleet of foot guy he used to be. Everett covers as much ground. He's fearless out there, like Rowand.

 

Probably doesn't have as good an instinct as Dye on getting jumps, but this is a guy who was playing CF for Texas a few years ago. He can hold his own out there just fine.

 

 

When Everett played centerfield, I remember hearing about how experts had never seen a player turn more routine singles into triples due to terrible range and instincts. Everett has absolutely no range in the outfield...he even helped us win a game in Montreal last year when he was in the outfield for the Expos. I like Everett as a hitter, but he should never play the outfield again. He makes Timo look like a gold-glover out there.