Ozzie vs. Frank, round one?

[Dick Allen]

baker gets away with saying even dumber s*** yet he's considered a "player's coach." 

 

I would not think it would be much of a problem, especially if current players spread the word that they are happy with him.  Damn, I hope they are...

Baker says some wacky stuff, but he always has his players' backs, including Sosa. He didn't give Sosa crap until Sammy was gone. One more thing, if Frank and/or others on the team had a bad attitude last season, that's on Ozzie. He can pop off all he wants to but part of his job is to get the team to play at its highest level. If the team's attitude is bad, there's a good chance so is it's manager.

Edited April 18, 2005 by Dick Allen

[LosMediasBlancas]

When Everett played centerfield, I remember hearing about how experts had never seen a player turn more routine singles into triples due to terrible range and instincts.  Everett has absolutely no range in the outfield...he even helped us win a game in Montreal last year when he was in the outfield for the Expos.  I like Everett as a hitter, but he should never play the outfield again.  He makes Timo look like a gold-glover out there.

 

The other option is Dye, who is not hitting well at all and looked comatose out in the field yesterday.

[jackie hayes]

When Everett played centerfield, I remember hearing about how experts had never seen a player turn more routine singles into triples due to terrible range and instincts.  Everett has absolutely no range in the outfield...he even helped us win a game in Montreal last year when he was in the outfield for the Expos.  I like Everett as a hitter, but he should never play the outfield again.  He makes Timo look like a gold-glover out there.

Cf was not a good scene for Carl. Rf's not great either, but at least you get his bat in there. But lf, I don't mind Carl in left. That's just about his speed.

[Dick Allen]

Cf was not a good scene for Carl.  Rf's not great either, but at least you get his bat in there.  But lf, I don't mind Carl in left.  That's just about his speed.

He had 1 ball hit to him this season in LF and look what happened. He is one of the better DHs in baseball. His defense is below horrible.

[jackie hayes]

He had 1 ball hit to him this season in LF and look what happened. He is one of the better DHs in baseball. His defense is below horrible.

Stuff happens. I'm not saying he'll be a good defensive lf, but it's the least demanding position, he'll be adequate.

[fathom]

Stuff happens.  I'm not saying he'll be a good defensive lf, but it's the least demanding position, he'll be adequate.

 

If Dye continues to struggle, then that's Kenny Williams fault, and he's going to have to find another option. Carl Everett is not an option to play RF. Dye made one mistake in the outfield in 11 games this season. Everett looked terrible in one inning in the outfield. There's absolutely no comparison between their defensive ability, and I'll bet by the time Thomas comes back, there won't be a difference between Everett and Dye's offensive production. We've faced very few lefties so far this season, which really helps Everett since he's terrible facing lhp. One thing I'm sure of is that we need another right handed hitting outfielder off the bench who can drive the ball. I've been saying this for a week now. Ozuna is a nice story, but I don't think he's a major league hitter.

[jackie hayes]

Dye'll be fine hitting-wise, but he doesn't seem to be as good a hitter as Everett anymore. And Dye's a good rf -- I never said the 2 compared in terms of defense. Still, Everett has been an outfielder most of his career, I don't think he's suddenly lost all ability to play left, the easiest position. Especially not after one single play.

 

Sometimes you sacrifice something in the field for the bat. If you bench Everett after Thomas comes back, or go with a platoon at dh, you're leaving too much talent wasting on the bench, imo.

[Steff]

If you want to run a professional, first-class operation, then your people from the top down to the bottom have to act it. Whether or not this is just some sort of inside joke, or motivational tool, or just popping off, it doesn't look good to players around baseball. What if next off-season the White Sox want to sign a free agent but he doesn't want to come here for fear of being blasted in the press for no reason at all. Keep this sort of stuff in-house. Ozzie being Ozzie may be cute for a while then it just gets silly.

 

 

 

Can't argue one bit with those words.

[quickman]

Four words for Ozzie, which I guess he still can't translate, SHUT THE f*** UP!

 

 

I agree, why would he need to say anything? bad move.

[quickman]

He reminds meof the pitcher in Bull durham that says he wants to throw a fastball because he wants to announce his presence. This is just dumb. KW needs to step in privately and talk to these guys.

[Steff]

He reminds meof the pitcher in Bull durham that says he wants to throw a fastball because he wants to announce his presence. This is just dumb. KW needs to step in privately and talk to these guys.

 

 

Nuke LaLoosh (I know that's wrong... brain cramp)... he was a few shy of a full deck.

[KevHead0881]

KW needs to step in privately and talk to these guys.

 

Yes. Then it can officially be made a bigger deal than it really is.

[aboz56]

Without reading through the whole thread, my brief thoughts.

 

1) Guillen, while he may be voicing how he really feels, needs to keep this stuff in house.

 

2) I agree that Frank isn't a shoo-in to play everyday when he returns. If Everett keeps playing productively and leading the team like he has to this point, they'll need a spot for him to play regularly and it won't be in the OF on an everyday basis based on his range.

 

3) I don't know about his clubhouse demeanor, but I never knew Frank Thomas as having a bad attitude. Perhaps he was misunderstood by the masses, but generally, he's been a good guy for the most part. Behind the doors, he may have cause some problems though, who knows.

 

4) I wouldn't go overboard on ripping Ozzie to shreds over this, I doubt it will have a lasting effect on the Sox clubhouse. Generally he is liked very well by most of the club. And to add to this, sometimes quotes are taking as being more abrasive sounding than they really were. I'd like to hear audio on these quotes before passing complete judgement.

Edited April 18, 2005 by aboz56

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

No, was definitely not referring to you, or anyone specifically for that matter.

 

I just get a kick out of how we (collectively) just "know" what Guillen's motives are, that Guillen is selfish, or that Guillen is brilliant for that matter.  Further, how we (again, collectively) just "know" that Guillen and Thomas have not already discussed this, or that Frank will be really pissed off about this article.

 

I fully realize this topic is a lightning rod and in addition, it is something to discuss.  Perhaps a little caution is in order though.  None of us are in the clubhouse and none of us are privy to the relationship between Guillen and Thomas.  Further, none of us know why or why not Guillen says or does certain things.  One thing for sure, he places a lot of emphasis on good chemistry and playing the game the "right" way (however he defines it).

 

This is an opinion board and what everybody is stating is basically their opinion, that's fine, but I question all the conclusions that are drawn here.  We are not in the clubhouse, we don't know the whole story.

 

How true but some of us sure like to act like we're in the loop. Whats clear to me from reading the arguments in this thread is that the more we "communicate", the less we listen. Getting in the last word seems to be the most important issue .

[GoodAsGould]

Everett played CF for us not to long ago and i remember he didnt do that bad of a job really.... So he should be fine in one of the corner OF spots especially since he is in great shape... That cleveland game was prob just a fluke accident.

[Spod=Ratings]

Why start contreversy Ozzie why?

[Steff]

How true but some of us sure like to act like we're in the loop. Whats clear to me from reading the arguments in this thread is that the more we "communicate", the less we listen. Getting in the last word seems to be the most important issue .

 

 

 

Touche..

[WHarris1]

FWIW KW was on ESPN 1000 and he said he walked into Ozzie's office and Oz said he felt sick to his stomach with the way his comments were interpretated.

 

I didn't read the article or anything that's just what KW was saying.

[LosMediasBlancas]

FWIW KW was on ESPN 1000 and he said he walked into Ozzie's office and Oz said he felt sick to his stomach with the way his comments were interpretated.

 

I didn't read the article or anything that's just what KW was saying.

 

wonder who has Ozzie been listening to that gave him that impression?

[CWSGuy406]

Everett does not have half the arm Dye does and I would disagree with you about their range. Comparing Everett to Rowand is flat out ridiculous. I don't think anyone wants Everett playing CF for them anymore.

 

I would assume he would be playing LF in either case. If Pods and Everett plays then Carl would play LF, Pods CF, and Rowand RF. If Dye and Everett play then we already know that situation.

 

I would much rather have Dye playing full time than Crazy Carl. I am sure he will turn it around.

 

You've gotta be kidding.

 

Whatever definincies (sp?) that Everett has in the field he more than makes up for against right handed pitchers. Against righties, Carl has to be in the lineup every f***ing day if we want to have a productive offense. Against righties over the last three years, he's posted a line of .283/.356/.493, while Jermaine has posted a pretty pathetic line of (against righties) .240/.306/.429. Jermaine better pick it up, quick, or he's the man who's out of a job -- IMHO. You have to platoon the two. The only other option is to take out Podsednik, and that ain't happening.

 

And my thoughts, as a whole, are that if we don't make the playoffs this year, Kenny ought to be sent packing, and same with Oz. For GM, Stone and Keith Law are two names I'd look at. But, I'm jumping way ahead here, in a scenario that might not even happen, so I guess I shouldn't have even brought it up... :banghead

[nitetrain8601]

I hope Frank takes the high road so Ozzie looks like a real ass. He seriously is getting on my goddamn nerves with this. Don't talk to your players, talk to the f***ing umps and defend your players. That's your job. Your job isn't to provide a nice soundbite. He has too much of a big mouth. It seems like him and KW are trying to draw him out and talk his own way off the team.

[GoodAsGould]

Hmm if Ozzie was indeedly taken out of context im sure he has talked to Frank Thomas about it and there really is nothing to worry about..... I think the media is just trying to create a controversy on the southside since everything is messed up on the northside... and Ozzie talks a lot.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ozzie seriously gets on my nerves sometimes. I hope to god Frank can be the bigger man and just stay quiet.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 08:54 PM)

You've gotta be kidding.

 

Whatever definincies (sp?) that Everett has in the field he more than makes up for against right handed pitchers.  Against righties, Carl has to be in the lineup every f***ing day if we want to have a productive offense.  Against righties over the last three years, he's posted a line of .283/.356/.493, while Jermaine has posted a pretty pathetic line of (against righties) .240/.306/.429.  Jermaine better pick it up, quick, or he's the man who's out of a job -- IMHO.  You have to platoon the two.  The only other option is to take out Podsednik, and that ain't happening.

 

And my thoughts, as a whole, are that if we don't make the playoffs this year, Kenny ought to be sent packing, and same with Oz.  For GM, Stone and Keith Law are two names I'd look at.  But, I'm jumping way ahead here, in a scenario that might not even happen, so I guess I shouldn't have even brought it up...  :banghead

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not kidding you. I stand by what I say. I would not take Dye out in order to make our offense a little more productive and to make our defense a lot worse off.

JMO. It is not what I want to see.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 08:54 PM)

I hope Frank takes the high road so Ozzie looks like a real ass. He seriously is getting on my goddamn nerves with this. Don't talk to your players, talk to the f***ing umps and defend your players. That's your job. Your job isn't to provide a nice soundbite. He has too much of a big mouth. It seems like him and KW are trying to draw him out and talk his own way off the team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If your talking about yesterday's game then I think you are wrong about that. You don't want to lose your manager in a tight 2 run or 1 run ball game. And if anything Ozzie has been talking up his pitchers and telling the media that Freddy Garcia and Mark Buehrle deserve a lot more attention.

Edited April 18, 2005 by southsideirish