Ozzie vs. Frank, round one?

[Allsox]

"When Frank gets back, 2 people are going to be out of a job. Someone is off the 25 man roster and Carl or Dye or whomever become part time players."

 

Um, Frank has accomplished much more than Carl or Jermaine ever have so tough s*** for the one who sits out for Frank....Besides, Dye's not hitting the cover off the ball right now and he can easily come in as a defensive replacement for Everett in the later innings....

 

"I think the general opinion is that when Frank gets back he's the everyday starter at DH"

 

Yes, Frank should be the everyday starter at DH once he's ready....His previous track record (.300 BA, 40 HRs, 100 RBIs, 100 walks when healthy) dictates that Ozzie should be penciling him in at the 3 spot....The argument here is Ozzie should not have said what he did yesterday about Frank needing to be more of a team player because Oz said that last yr and Frank did just that! Ozzie didn't need to say it twice :finger

[LosMediasBlancas]

Actually I just remembered a tidbit from Soxfest that might shine a little light on this.  Saturday nite at the fest a few of us hung out with Ozzie Jr for a while, and listened to some of the stories he was telling about the teams his dad played on back in the day.  One of the stories he told us was how Frank was a much better player when mad.  He said many of the players used to say stuff to him before games just to get him pissed of and focused into the game.  I guess they used to always bring when someone like Bonds or Griffey would have a big game, and then ask Frank what was wrong with him.

 

This might be more of the same from the Oz.  This sounds like just getting him ready to go.

 

Wow, his kid was spilling stories to you huh? Apparently, oral diahrrea is hereditary.

[Steff]

Wow, his kid was spilling stories to you huh? Apparently, oral diahrrea is hereditary.

 

 

I'm not going to defend this.. mainly because it's something we have said in the past when hanging out with him.. but in the context of these comment were funny stories about players and not so much dishing details. At several points in the night Carl, Aaron, and Willie were part of the stories and they were right there with us laughing it up.

[Allsox]

LMAO..

 

Reporter: "Hey Frank.. think you'll DH full time when you come back?"

Frank: "Sure"

Reporter: "What should Carl do?"

Frank: "Play the outfield...."

Guess he could have said "send his ass packing".

 

Selfish, IMO, is the last thing it was. It was a matter of fact opinion..

 

An opinion I wholeheartedly agree with Frank on....Especially if Dye keeps hitting below .200....

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 04:31 PM)

LMAO..

 

Reporter: "Hey Frank.. think you'll DH full time when you come back?"

Frank: "Sure"

Reporter: "What should Carl do?"

Frank: "Play the outfield...."

Guess he could have said "send his ass packing".

 

Selfish, IMO, is the last thing it was. It was a matter of fact opinion..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't believe that is what I said. I don't believe Frank should have said "sure" or "play the outfield....". Both can be seen as being selfish and not team oriented. Like he deserves to be in the lineup instead of or more than Carl or Pods.

 

All he had to say, if he was smart, was "That is really not my decision to make. All I can do is get myself into playing condition and work as hard as I can to make Ozzie's decision an easy one and allow me to play as much as possible. I am willing to help this team in any way possible to keep winning. It is not my decision as to where to play Carl or where I should play and how often. I will let Ozzie make those decisions."

 

Is that so hard to do? He made himself seem selfish by saying what he said. That in itself made Ozzie think of years past and why he brought up attitudes of past teams. That is what makes what Ozzie says a very relevant thing to state.

 

I can see your point of view and see why you think what Frank says is very harmless. But I can also see why it would tick off a manager or teammates. No one player is more important than another, and that is the environment Ozzie is trying to create. This team seems to be doing just fine without Frank and even though I think they would be much better with him in the lineup, that does not give him the right to think he is better than either Carl or Pods. By stating that Carl can play the outfield and he should be the everyday DH is the wrong thing to say. It is not the attitude Ozzie wants.

 

And do we really want Carl playing the outfield instead of either Dye or Pods? I sure hope not. We are playing great with the speed and defense game. Why would you want to go back to a team like years past that was all about home runs? This is a great team to watch and one of my favorite teams for a long time now.

Edited April 18, 2005 by southsideirish

[greasywheels121]

If this is a ploy to make Franks leaving at years end hurt less then I'm not buying it. They got me to not care about Maggs, Carlos, and others, but they are NOT doing that to Big Frank.

 

Exactly. I've liked KW and Ozzie while they've been here. However, Frank's going to trump them in my book. I'll always be in Frank's corner.

[Steff]

I suppose we could go round and round about this... :rolly

 

 

IMO it wasn't selfish and an appropriate answer and one I would have given in response to "Frank.. do you think you can DH every day" - since it wasn't "should you DH everyday?".

 

 

Maybe you should read the quotes from Frank...??

[jackie hayes]

If Ozzie had limited himself to the comments where he said, 'I make the lineup, not Frank, and I still don't know how we're going to work him in, we'll see what the situation is at that point' (rough summary, I'm not trying to quote) -- this wouldn't be a big deal. Frank knows that, and has said as much in other interviews (when he talks about having to sit, and says that the team has "interchangeable parts"). But when he lays into a guy who's been saying all the right things, going off on what an awful teammate he was years ago, especially before last season (that is, when Ozzie wasn't even in the f'n clubhouse) -- then he has gone way over the line, for no other reason than to make a point of how important he is. The only selfish person in all of this is Ozzie. He should stfu, but it's clear by now that it'll never happen.

Edited April 18, 2005 by jackie hayes

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 05:15 PM)

I suppose we could go round and round about this...  :rolly

IMO it wasn't selfish and an appropriate answer and one I would have given in response to "Frank.. do you think you can DH every day" - since it wasn't "should you DH everyday?".

Maybe you should read the quotes from Frank...?? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh yeah. I am so sorry. That really makes it so much better. Where should Carl play? the outfield? I read both quotes and they sound selfish when put together. I think neither Ozzie or Frank are right in this instance. They both need to learn how to communicate in the media or shut up. You would think that a veteran player would know a better way to word things. You would also think a former MLB player and now manager would have better things to do than run to the media to discuss certain things. However, both don't know better and we end up with this ridiculous sideshow situation.

 

Both of them, along with the media overblowing it, make the White Sox look ridiculous.

Edited April 18, 2005 by southsideirish

[southsider2k5]

Wow, his kid was spilling stories to you huh? Apparently, oral diahrrea is hereditary.

 

The context wasn't bad at all. It was actually in a steroid conversation about how just about everyone that started putting up better numbers than Frank has either been involved in steroid trials or has had some awful suspicious things happen around them since then (injury problems etc), and how Frank was about the only superstar of that era who could be deemed clean, with any relative certianty. Frank used to use that stuff to get himself pumped up. That's why this thing in the paper clicked with this story.

 

And besides as long as Frank has known Ozzie, if this is the case, Frank is just sitting back and laughing about this. He knows better, and is laughing at everyone running around making a big deal out of this.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Exactly.  I've liked KW and Ozzie while they've been here.  However, Frank's going to trump them in my book.  I'll always be in Frank's corner.

 

I'm no insider, but I've heard and read on other boards, that the people (shareholders, JR or whoever it is) who really make decisons for the Sox will make sure that Frank retires in a White Sox uniform. If that's true, any smear campaign by KW or Ozzie is a waste of time.

[Steff]

Oh yeah. I am so sorry. That really makes it so much better. Where should Carl play? the outfield? I read both quotes and they sound selfish when put together. I think neither Ozzie or Frank are right in this instance. They both need to learn how to communicate in the media or shut up. You would think that a veteran player would know a better way to word things. You would also think a former MLB player and now manager would have better things to do than run to the media to discuss certain things. However, both don't know better and we end up with this ridiculous sideshow situation.

 

Both of them, along with the media overblowing it, make the White Sox look ridiculous.

 

I don't know what you're apologizing to me for..

 

And I don't care what makes anything seem better to you. My comments are MY OPINION. Obviously you don't agree with it.. I suppose you could just agree to disagree..

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 05:21 PM)

I'm no insider, but I've heard and read on other boards, that the people (shareholders, JR or whoever it is) who really make decisons for the Sox will make sure that Frank retires in a White Sox uniform. If that's true, any smear campaign by KW or Ozzie is a waste of time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I really hope people are not looking at this as that drastic. You really think that this is a smear campaign against Frank? Please! Some people look way too much into things. I am not saying this directly to you LosMedias. I am saying this to anyone that thinks that way.

[ISF]

When Frank comes back, Everett moves to RF and Dye gets to pick splinters out of his ass.

 

Gload might be the odd man out.

 

I don't see the problem.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 05:24 PM)

I don't know what you're apologizing to me for..

 

And I don't care what makes anything seem better to you. My comments are MY OPINION. Obviously you don't agree with it.. I suppose you could just agree to disagree..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think my apology was sarcastic. I should have put that in green I suppose, but somethings are just blatantly obvious. Steff, you have a way about you. I don't know if it is arrogance or what exactly. I am not fighting with you or arguing with you, just making comments as to why I disagree with you. It is a message board and all I am doing is making comments on why I disagree with your opinion. If you think what Frank said is better than saying something team oriented then I think that is sad. JMO.

[Guest JimH]

I am amazed at how many clubhouse chemistry experts we have at SoxTalk.

 

Not only do our clubhouse chemistry experts have the devine ability to decipher what Guillen's motives are, but they also understand that this will surely have a detrimental effect on the team's performance.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(JimH @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 05:27 PM)

I am amazed at how many clubhouse chemistry experts we have at SoxTalk. 

 

Not only do our clubhouse chemistry experts have the devine ability to decipher what Guillen's motives are, but they also understand that this will surely have a detrimental effect on the team's performance. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jim I never thought what Ozzie said would have a bad effect on the team's performance. I think he heard somethign that he perceived as a selfish statement. I think that if he lets selfish attitudes get out of control then it could lead to a detrimental outcome. I am not sure if you were talking about me or if I was included in this expert group or not. Just trying to clarify what I meant.

Edited April 18, 2005 by southsideirish

[fathom]

I can't believe anyone would suggest putting Everett in the outfielder. He might be the worst defensive outfielder in the last 10 years. We knew when Everett picked up his option that it was likely we were going to be stuck with a 4 million dollar bench player. The difference between Dye and Everett's offensive ability is nowhere near the difference between their defensive ability. It took Everett less than one inning to not only hurt himself in the field, but to play a huge factor in blowing the game for the Sox.

[Steff]

I think my apology was sarcastic. I should have put that in green I suppose, but somethings are just blatantly obvious. Steff, you have a way about you. I don't know if it is arrogance or what exactly. I am not fighting with you or arguing with you, just making comments as to why I disagree with you. It is a message board and all I am doing is making comments on why I disagree with your opinion. If you think what Frank said is better than saying something team oriented then I think that is sad. JMO.

 

 

I know it was sarcasm.. rather than just agreeing to disagree you become combative and sarcastic to others opinions.. it's your way. No big deal.

 

Maybe if you had read the quote I would be more receptive to you responses.

 

Now I'm "sad"... sigh.. typical.

[Steff]

Jim I never thought what Ozzie said would have a bad effect on the team's performance. I think he heard somethign that he perceived as a selfish statement. I think that if he lets selfish attitudes get out of control then it could lead to a detrimental outcome. I am not sure if you were talking about me or if I was included in this expert group or not. Just trying to clarify what I meant.

 

 

How does one have anything to do with the other...? Ozzie couldn't have just said "Frank doesn't make the line-up" and be done with it...? Rather he choose to talk s*** from last year.. which ironically.. is completely opposite to the things he said about Frank last year.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 05:32 PM)

I know it was sarcasm.. rather than just agreeing to disagree you become combative and sarcastic to others opinions.. it's your way. No big deal.

 

Maybe if you had read the quote I would be more receptive to you responses.

 

Now I'm "sad"... sigh.. typical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you not read the whole thing? Not just sad, but arrogant as well. You could have agreed to disagree with me as well. It seemed as though both of us kept on going.

[hammerhead johnson]

I don't believe that is what I said. I don't believe Frank should have said "sure" or "play the outfield....". Both can be seen as being selfish and not team oriented. Like he deserves to be in the lineup instead of or more than Carl or Pods.

 

All he had to say, if he was smart, was "That is really not my decision to make. All I can do is get myself into playing condition and work as hard as I can to make Ozzie's decision an easy one and allow me to play as much as possible. I am willing to help this team in any way possible to keep winning. It is not my decision as to where to play Carl or where I should play and how often. I will let Ozzie make those decisions."

 

Is that so hard to do? He made himself seem selfish by saying what he said. That in itself made Ozzie think of years past and why he brought up attitudes of past teams. That is what makes what Ozzie says a very relevant thing to state.

 

I can see your point of view and see why you think what Frank says is very harmless. But I can also see why it would tick off a manager or teammates. No one player is more important than another, and that is the environment Ozzie is trying to create. This team seems to be doing just fine without Frank and even though I think they would be much better with him in the lineup, that does not give him the right to think he is better than either Carl or Pods. By stating that Carl can play the outfield and he should be the everyday DH is the wrong thing to say. It is not the attitude Ozzie wants.

 

And do we really want Carl playing the outfield instead of either Dye or Pods? I sure hope not. We are playing great with the speed and defense game. Why would you want to go back to a team like years past that was all about home runs? This is a great team to watch and one of my favorite teams for a long time now.

 

Sounds like BS to me. It's a stupid f***ing question to begin with. Do you think that you'll be the full-time DH? Hmmm.

 

I don't want a PC Frank. I don't want Frank sounding like a lawyer, politician, comparable scumbag, etc. If people ask you whether or not you think you'll start when you have a lifetime OPS of 1.000, it's not necessarily a bad thing to exhibit a little self-confidence.

 

And their, there, and they're all sound the same.

[Steff]

Did you not read the whole thing? Not just sad, but arrogant as well. You could have agreed to disagree with me as well. It seemed as though both of us kept on going.

 

 

I am disagreeing with you.. I refrained from calling your names though.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Apr 18, 2005 -> 05:34 PM)

How does one have anything to do with the other...? Ozzie couldn't have just said "Frank doesn't make the line-up" and be done with it...? Rather he choose to talk s*** from last year.. which ironically.. is completely opposite to the things he said about Frank last year. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How often do I have to say that both people were wrong in this instance? BOTH WERE WRONG! I am not taking sides. You are.

[Steff]

How often do I have to say that both people were wrong in this instance? BOTH WERE WRONG! I am not taking sides. You are.

 

 

 

Yea.. I am. Was that ever in question..?

 

How is Frank in the "wrong" for the comments Ozzie chose to say about him from last year....? Did Frank make some comments about last year..?