Ozzie going with closer by committee...

[Wedge]

Why did Blackhole Sun just jump into my head?

 

speaking of awesome songs...

 

"WE BUILT THIS CITY!"

[Steff]

Hello darling, sorry we didn't hook up.

 

 

 

Not a problem. Jim and the kids didn't want to go up anyway. Lord.. it was a beeee-uuu--teee-fulll night last night.

[LosMediasBlancas]

How does Shingo fix the problem? IIRC, last year, he was getting hitters to chase pitches out of the zone. This year, they seem to be taking more of those pitches and forcing him to throw strikes, when he does, they are making better contact. I also noticed the Twins hitters seem to be timing the frisbee a little bit better, what do you guys see?

[beck72]

I'm more inclined to give the guy that's done the job for the Sox the benefit of the doubt, with a short leash.  That said, I think DH will eventually be the closer, but Shingo has earned the right to try and get his s*** together.

 

I agree. Shingo proved last year he was the closer. If he shows he can't get both LH and RH hitters out, then he should go back to set up.

[beck72]

How does Shingo fix the problem?    IIRC, last year, he was getting hitters to chase pitches out of the zone. This year, they seem to be taking more of those pitches and forcing him to throw strikes, when he does, they are making better contact. I also noticed the Twins hitters seem to be timing the frisbee a little bit better, what do you guys see?

 

Shingo hasn't been able to get his slow stuff over for strikes. then he's behind in the count, and hitters wait on his FB. I still haven't seen guys hit his "frisbee", only his fastball.

[winninguglyin83]

Several thoughts on the bullpen.

 

1. Shingo needs to be used as a setup guy for a bit. Pick the situations carefully. Rebuild his confidence. I think his effectiveness will increase when we stop playing AL Central teams. They saw him more than anybody last season. More chance to be on to him. When we start playing teams from the West and East who don't know him as well, I expect him to pitch better.

 

2. There's nothing wrong with spreading the saves between Hermanson, Marte, Shingo and Vizcaino. Go with the arm that's hot -- and provides the best matchup.

 

3. Cotts does have to improve. He needs to be able to come in and pitch at least an inning -- maybe two. He also needs to be able to serve as the long relief guy. If he can't throw strikes, they need to go to Plan B and find somebody in the minors who can. And, personally, I don't think he'll ever have the control to be successful at the big league level. Nothing in his track record suggests that he will.

[RockRaines]

How does Shingo fix the problem?    IIRC, last year, he was getting hitters to chase pitches out of the zone. This year, they seem to be taking more of those pitches and forcing him to throw strikes, when he does, they are making better contact. I also noticed the Twins hitters seem to be timing the frisbee a little bit better, what do you guys see?

I think you are wrong. The reason that Shingo was getting guys to chase pitches is because he was throwing his breaking ball for strikes last year. This year there is sideways break on his fribee instead of dropping into the zone. He needs to throw all his pitches for strikes, and then they will chase it out of the zone. Right now they are all waiting on his fastball, which is the only pitch that is going for a strike.

[EvilJester99]

I think you are wrong.  The reason that Shingo was getting guys to chase pitches is because he was throwing his breaking ball for strikes last year.  This year there is sideways break on his fribee instead of dropping into the zone.  He needs to throw all his pitches for strikes, and then they will chase it out of the zone.  Right now they are all waiting on his fastball, which is the only pitch that is going for a strike.

Plus not to mention Shingo's fastball is down in velocity by a few MPH. He is like 85 86 now and was 87 - 89 last season... makes a huge difference on his breaking stuff as well.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I think you are wrong.  The reason that Shingo was getting guys to chase pitches is because he was throwing his breaking ball for strikes last year.  This year there is sideways break on his fribee instead of dropping into the zone.  He needs to throw all his pitches for strikes, and then they will chase it out of the zone.  Right now they are all waiting on his fastball, which is the only pitch that is going for a strike.

Good points, I think he'll come around, nothing sounds like a huge prob.......so far. I like that Ozzie is yanking him when he is.

[retro1983hat]

I think at this point, Shingo has lost the job of closer. I'm not sure about anyone else, but last night when he came in, I was hoping someone else was warming up. The Sox have always had a great closer one year and the next year, it's like they can't pitch.

 

One year Thigpen sets the saves record, the next he can't get anyone out.

 

Roberto Hernandez was brilliant one year and horrid after that.

 

Keith Folke's slow pitch gets the hitters in 2000 and after that he gets drilled.

 

Shingo made hitters look stupid last year, this year, he's the dumb one.

[Guest JimH]

Several thoughts on the bullpen.

 

1. Shingo needs to be used as a setup guy for a bit. Pick the situations carefully. Rebuild his confidence. I think his effectiveness will increase when we stop playing AL Central teams. They saw him more than anybody last season. More chance to be on to him. When we start playing teams from the West and East who don't know him as well, I expect him to pitch better.

 

2. There's nothing wrong with spreading the saves between Hermanson, Marte, Shingo and Vizcaino. Go with the arm that's hot -- and provides the best matchup.

 

3. Cotts does have to improve. He needs to be able to come in and pitch at least an inning -- maybe two. He also needs to be able to serve as the long relief guy. If he can't throw strikes, they need to go to Plan B and find somebody in the minors who can. And, personally, I don't think he'll ever have the control to be successful at the big league level. Nothing in his track record suggests that he will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Makes a lot of sense, great post. Point #1 is especially well taken, Shingo will be a big part of this team and Ozzie has stated he needs to build Shingo's confidence.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Keith Folke's slow pitch gets the hitters in 2000 and after that he gets drilled.

 

 

 

 

When did he get drilled after 2000?

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/ml...rLocator=Foulke

 

 

I know he had some rough patches in 2002 thanks mainly to Jerry Manuel and his stupidity but the career stats speak for themselves.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Honestly I think Shingo will turn out to be ok but Ozzie is right he needs to be worked back up in the confidence department.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Am I the only one who believes Pods when he says he touched the plate between Mauer's legs? It's obvious that Pods beat him as far as getting to the plate because the ump waited for Mauer to tag him to call him out.

 

If you guys want to believe Mauer beat him go ahead but in my mind the Sox were robbed of a run.

 

I do not agree with the closer by comm or by situation approach. During the course of the year someone needs to emerge as the dominant closer or you are going to pay down the stretch. In 2004 Shingo was the best 15 pitch man in the bigs & he deserves a chance to get back to that stature. I don't agree with the belief that hitters are seeing him better. It's simply a matter of Shingo not being able to throw the junk for strikes. That allows the hitters to ignore it & wait on the fastball. He needs to fix whatsever wrong so he can throw the junk for strikes again.

 

When you have a struggling closer like this you need a fallback plan. Right now that is Marte & Hermy. It's a fallback plan because these are the long men right now in the pen. The two guys expected to pitch 2 innings a night if need be. Politte would be the 3rd long man & then Viz, Shingo, & Cotts the short men.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Ideally you want a short man to emerge as the closer so then you can maximize your long men. When a short man like Cotts is next to useless it really taxes the other 5 guys.

 

You never want to use a pen guy more than 4 in w/out a day of rest. The Sox have 8 gms (avg of 24 pen IP) before the next off day. For every inning Cotts fails someone else has to pick him up. It likes burning two gallons of gas to go the same distance then.

What's left in the tank?

Hermy: 2 in

Viz: 1 in

Marte: 3 in

Cotts: 4 in

Politte: 4 in

Shingo: 3 in

 

Mark Buerhle has been a pen saver so far. It's one of those intangibles that don't show up on the stats much. It gets called a work horse but the true benefit of those innings never gets talked about. Mark has allowed us to minimize our weakest links in the pen. When was the last time Wood did that?

 

Were going to need Mark to do it again. If not then Cotts & Politte are going to have to start pulling their weight on this team.

Edited April 20, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[AngelasDaddy0427]

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Apr 20, 2005 -> 02:22 PM)

Am I the only one who believes Pods when he says he touched the plate between Mauer's legs?  It's obvious that Pods beat him as far as getting to the plate because the ump waited for Mauer to tag him to call him out. 

 

If you guys want to believe Mauer beat him go ahead but in my mind the Sox were robbed of a run.

 

I do not agree with the closer by comm or by situation approach.  During the course of the year someone needs to emerge as the dominant closer or you are going to pay down the stretch. In 2004 Shingo was the best 15 pitch man in the bigs & he deserves a chance to get back to that stature.  I don't agree with the belief that hitters are seeing him better.  It's simply a matter of Shingo not being able to throw the junk for strikes.  That allows the hitters to ignore it & wait on the fastball.  He needs to fix whatsever wrong so he can throw the junk for strikes again.

 

When you have a struggling closer like this you need a fallback plan.  Right now that is Marte & Hermy.  It's a fallback plan because these are the long men right now in the pen.  The two guys expected to pitch 2 innings a night if need be.  Politte would be the 3rd long man & then Viz, Shingo, & Cotts the short men.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While it does no good to worry about losing one run it did piss me off that we seemed to get a few bad calls. I was so pissed when AROW had that double and had his hand on the base before he was tagged and was still called out. We won that game in spite of the umps best efforts to stop us.

[Jabroni]

"Is Shingo Chicago's go-to guy?

Right-hander will close games, but sparingly"

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws

[ISF]

We won that game in spite of the umps best efforts to stop us.

 

A tribute to the team. We lose that game the past couple years, and we use the call as an excuse.