Awful Experience at Sox Park (Cellular Field)

[TLAK]

I’ve been biting my tongue on this post since my ballet crack because I didn’t want to start a war among all the good posters, including SouthSideIrish. But, you should have seen that place in the 70’s. The South Side Hitmen year, 1977, I can only describe as bedlam. I was about the age of many of the current posters then and went to many games.

 

There was smoking in the seats but not all was tobacco, I literally saw bongs being passed in the stands. You could sneak anything into the stadium; drugs, bottles of whiskey, fireworks and weapons. Underage drinking was rampant, it was rumored you could get served with a Cub Scout ID.

 

If a pretty girl walked by you couldn’t hear the PA over the whistles and cat calls. There were fights all over the place, one time there was a melee and whole group of fighters got taken down stairs. They were back the next inning and I found out they were cops.

 

People rode the players without mercy and very often racially. Oscar Gamble used to really get it, because of his fro, I think. Guys would throw beer cups and all kinds of stuff at him. When he hit a long fly for an out they would yell ‘one more chitlin for breakfast’ (after Harry’s one more biscuit for breakfast away from a homer). And Oscar was on our side. I bet you young people don’t believe me, ask some old timers –black men, they took that s*** everyday (not just at the ballpark) and if they hit back they ended in jail instead of the white guy.

 

America in general, and US Cellular in particular, is a better place today. I don’t want to go back to that time. But with this perspective I don’t get excited when folks get up during an inning or a guy sneaks a smoke. JR has done a good job cleaning the place up, any of the above behavior would get you a ride to 26th and California today and rightly so. But let’s not get so prudish the place stops being a ballpark and becomes a piano recital.

[Kid Gleason]

Nice post TLAK.

 

I often wonder if many modern fans know about White Sox history. Or if it is that we want to forget what our teams history of fans has been, and the teams history. One thing that does kill me is the reputation us fans have for being "brutes". People seem to think this is a wrong stereotype or a new one. But in reality, you can go all the way back to the teams inception and find that the Southside teams fans have always been rowdy, violent, and downright rough around every single edge there is. The team was always seen in the same light.

 

So this idea that Sox fans are well behaved baseball fans that just want to sit in the stands with scorecards in hand, is actually a relatively new thing to be doing. I am not saying that our fans are not educated baseball fans, but there is a looooonnnnngggg line of history showing that our fans do NOT just sit passivly in the stands.

 

Like it or not, Ozzie is a true classic style of guy for our team. Loud, obnoxious, arrogant, and one hell of a brilliant Baseball mind.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Like it or not, Ozzie is a true classic style of guy for our team. Loud, obnoxious, arrogant, and one hell of a brilliant Baseball mind. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In the days of the SS hit men I was much too young to be aware of that racial stuff.

I cheered for Oscar, Goose, & the rest. The drinking was much heavier as was smoking but again I was too young to know what was legal & what was not. I do remember Harry. I would always watch him in between innings. I always grabbed my Dad's or brother's jacket when it looked like he was going to fall out of the booth. He used to lean over it a lot. I was a big fan of Harry.

 

Cub fans won't like to hear this but as a burban N-sider who had ample choice between the Sox & the Cub as a youngster it was the personality of the Sox & the old ball park that made me a Sox-lifer. Attending a Cub game seemed boring in comparison. Maybe I'm rare & maybe now it's all about what the parents think more than the kids. Maybe the parents dictate which personality a kid should like. But I personally like the fire of our fans, the homerism of our announcers, & the fire of our rival fans that attend the games. There's a happy medium between personality & obnoxious behavior & I think for the most part the Sox have found that.

 

I'm hoping for Dinosaur Day before the season ends. The first 5,000 kids get a dinosaur autographed by none other than Carl Everett himself If I were a kid today that would leave a memorable impression in my mind.

[Guest JimH]

I was at Old Comiskey quite a bit in 1977 as a high school junior, most of the time sitting in left field. As such, I have ample recollection and experience of what went on and can compare it to nowadays with clear conscience.

 

In 1977, you could smoke all you wanted in the stands. It was allowed. Yes, there was reefer going around and yes, people snuck in beer and booze. People had a good time, and there was some rowdiness.

 

In this thread I referred somewhat to rowdy behavior - after all it's a ballgame and things will get loud and passionate. There is less rowdiness now, although Monday nites have certainly been a problem. I am talking less about rowdy behavoir than I'm talking about a certain level of what I'll call cluelessness and an entitlement mentality which says "I bought a ticket, I'll do whatever I want, and f*** you if you try to call me on my behavior. If you don't like what I'm doing, move."

 

I do not buy the argument that Sox fans have always been this way and this is a general excuse for some of the behavior at U.S. Cellular.

 

There is much more of a "cluelessness" that takes place now vs. 1977. Not saying the "good old days" were necessarily better (see: racial insults, which happened). My feeling though is people were there to see the game much more so back then. Now, it's more important for many people to yak on their cellphone, get up on a whim to get nachos, walk in and out whenever they feel like it ... with little regard for other people or the fact a game is going on. In 1977, it was such a surprise year and a passionate year. People were into the game, everything else was secondary. I just do not see that any more. The reasons why have been speculated enough already in this thread and I won't do it in this post.

 

The place has been cleaned up from the nonsense - most of the brawls, sneaking in booze, bongs and reefer, and racial slurs. And that's good. As SSI pointed out in this thread though, and I agree with him, there are many, many instances of inconsiderate behavior that take place at U.S. Cellular. Not saying it doesn't take place at other parks, it does. I am saying though, we have more than our fair share - based on my experience attending games at about 20 major league parks.

 

To go back further and to lend a perspective from history, I remember going to many, many nite games in 1965, 1966, and again from '68 to '74 while I was still in grade school. My dad took me and never once did I hear him have to ask some goof to tone it down or have to ask somebody to wait until an at bat was over. In general, those things were clearly understood. Unfortunately, that level of understanding - of what it means to be a considerate fan - is somewhat lacking today IMO. For a good example, take a look early in this thread for the guy who has a whopping total of 5 posts, who says "if you don't like it go to Wrigely yuppie". Just a guess but I would bet good money that poster is very young and may I further say has a bad case of "know it all".

 

OK, I have said enough and made my point and I believe many here agree with what I've said. So I will leave it alone at this point.

 

Hopefully, with these things being said by the long time fans, younger and newer fans will at least consider and reflect on what's been discussed. Further, that young fans will consider modeling considerate fan behavior and teaching their friends they bring to U.S. Cellular.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Jim's post did bring to mind something that I do see often today that I didn't see back then: Mall like walking. I see this mostly from teens & young adults around the concourse. These kids are not there to watch the ball game as much as they are there to hang out. They rarely sit in their seats & just seem to walk around & talk on cell phones. It is so reminiscent of what you see at malls like Woodfield.

 

Jim's description of these fans being "clueless" fits them to the letter. They trully are clueless. I would bet if you asked any of them what the score was or who was playing where or who was at bat or who was pitching I doubt they could tell you without looking up at the boards or the game.

I would imagine the skills section is going to increase that crowd.

 

I guess I have mixed feelings about it. They are young fans & we need to grow that part of the fan base so I appreciate their support. But I also realize they have no intention of sitting in their seats & watching the game. They are there primarily to see who else is & to hang out with friends. It doesn't bother me too much. I love my seats behind the Sox bullpen when I get them. My kids between innings will sometimes go to the front seats & ask the players questions. They loved Koch for his attention to the fans.

 

When I add it all up I realize these new "clueless" fans could mean the difference between a mid 60 & mid 70 payroll. That could be the difference between winning or losing a World Series. That's something I can tolerate.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Jim's post did bring to mind something that I do see often today that I didn't see back then:  Mall like walking. I see this mostly from teens & young adults around the concourse.  These kids are not there to watch the ball game as much as they are there to hang out.  They rarely sit in their seats & just seem to walk around & talk on cell phones.  It is so reminiscent of what you see at malls like Woodfield.

 

Jim's description of these fans being "clueless" fits them to the letter.  They trully are clueless.  I would bet if you asked any of them what the score was or who was playing where or who was at bat or who was pitching I doubt they could tell you without looking up at the boards or the game.

I would imagine the skills section is going to increase that crowd. 

 

I guess I have mixed feelings about it.  They are young fans & we need to grow that part of the fan base so I appreciate their support.  But I also realize they have no intention of sitting in their seats & watching the game.  They are there primarily to see who else is & to hang out with friends.  It doesn't bother me too much.  I love my seats behind the Sox bullpen when I get them.  My kids between innings will sometimes go to the front seats & ask the players questions.  They loved Koch for his attention to the fans.

 

When I add it all up I realize these new "clueless" fans could mean the difference between a mid 60 & mid 70 payroll.  That could be the difference between winning or losing a World Series.  That's something I can tolerate.

 

 

[Kid Gleason]

I wasn't trying to give an excuse for stuff by saying Sox fans have always been a certain way, but I just find it funny how I will see Sox fans get all bitter about comments made about the rowdiness that is associated, and then open a book written about the Sox in 1906, and you see the exact same things written about Sox fans.

 

As for the "clueless" among us, I think that is throughout Baseball in general. The game doesn't attract the same serious passion it always did in the past. Baseball, up until I am guessing the late 80's (or the strike) was always THE sport in the country. Now it has completely given way to Football, and in this area during the 90's it was all Bulls. But people have lost the seriousness of Baseball, as a whole. IMO.

[southsider2k5]

Can we get back to talking about beer?

[Kid Gleason]

Sure!!! If you head out to Palatine this weekend on Saturday, I will hook up with you at Durty Nellies Spring Beer Fest and talk beer all dang day!!! Though you have to be there before 2 if you want me to be making any sense at all. Anytime after that, and all bets are off.

[YASNY]

I wasn't trying to give an excuse for stuff by saying Sox fans have always been a certain way, but I just find it funny how I will see Sox fans get all bitter about comments made about the rowdiness that is associated, and then open a book written about the Sox in 1906, and you see the exact same things written about Sox fans.

 

As for the "clueless" among us, I think that is throughout Baseball in general. The game doesn't attract the same serious passion it always did in the past. Baseball, up until I am guessing the late 80's (or the strike) was always THE sport in the country. Now it has completely given way to Football, and in this area during the 90's it was all Bulls. But people have lost the seriousness of Baseball, as a whole. IMO.

 

I think 8 decades of no championship just might have something to do with the general lack of passion towards baseball in Chicago. Just call that a hunch.

Edited April 26, 2005 by YASNY

[upnorthsox]

I’ve been biting my tongue on this post since my ballet crack because I didn’t want to start a war among all the good posters, including SouthSideIrish.  But, you should have seen that place in the 70’s. The South Side Hitmen year, 1977, I can only describe as bedlam. I was about the age of many of the current posters then and went to many games.

 

There was smoking in the seats but not all was tobacco, I literally saw bongs being passed in the stands.  You could sneak anything into the stadium; drugs, bottles of whiskey, fireworks and weapons.  Underage drinking was rampant, it was rumored you could get served with a Cub Scout ID. 

 

If a pretty girl walked by you couldn’t hear the PA over the whistles and cat calls.  There were fights all over the place, one time there was a melee and whole group of fighters got taken down stairs.  They were back the next inning and I found out they were cops.

 

People rode the players without mercy and very often racially.  Oscar Gamble used to really get it, because of his fro, I think.  Guys would throw beer cups and all kinds of stuff at him. When he hit a long fly for an out they would yell ‘one more chitlin for breakfast’  (after Harry’s one more biscuit for breakfast away from a homer).  And Oscar was on our side. I bet you young people don’t believe me, ask some old timers –black men, they took that s*** everyday (not just at the ballpark) and if they hit back they ended in jail instead of the white guy.   

 

America in general, and US Cellular in particular, is a better place today.  I don’t want to go back to that time.  But with this perspective I don’t get excited when folks get up during an inning or a guy sneaks a smoke.  JR has done a good job cleaning the place up, any of the above behavior would get you a ride to 26th and California today and rightly so.  But let’s not get so prudish the place stops being a ballpark and becomes a piano recital.

 

No one was ridden harder than Hal McCrae, and while I can't deny there weren't racial undertones to some of the taunting it was mostly do to him being the most feared player to visit Comiskey during that time. He was in my memory the original Sox killer and was treated as such.