Kobe-Defense-Pippen talk

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Too say bowen is not an elite defender is a dumbass comment. I don't care if jordan, kerr, or pippen said it.

 

I guess 'elite' is a term that can be thrown around fairly loosely in the NBA nowadays, possibly because the talent is not up to par as in years past...

 

 

If Jordan or Pippen say it, I'm agreeing with it.

 

 

I'm excited about them going back to black shoes! I was pissed the few times they wore them during the season in years past. I can still remember seeing trenton hassell wearing black Jordan's...

[DBAHO]

Agreed.

 

Pippen is one of the GREATEST defenders of all time.  I would never view the man that gave us 6 championships as a "dumbass." 

 

I'm sure posters at bbbb or whatever know a lot more than a six-time NBA World Champion, 4th in steals all-time, playoffs in 16 of 17 years, NBA All-Defensive Team from 1991-2000, 7-time All-Star, two-time Olympic gold medal winner, and one of the 50 greatest players of all-time...

 

But I'm going to go ahead and side with Pippen.

 

Seriously though, bad-mouthing Pippen is sacriligeous coming from a true Bulls fan, in my opinion...

So if Pippen said Jason Kidd isn't an elite PG because he's never won a championship or that Jamal Crawford is a good SG because he can score, would you believe that too?

 

Where would the Spurs be defensively if they didn't have Bowen. Imagine if they kept Hedo Turkoglu instead, because even though I think he's an excellent 6th man, he's hopeless on the defensive end. Can someone just find for me the jobs Bowen has done on big name players in games (including Pippen) and what he's held them too.

[qwerty]

I guess 'elite' is a term that can be thrown around fairly loosely in the NBA nowadays, possibly because the talent is not up to par as in years past...

If Jordan or Pippen say it, I'm agreeing with it.

I'm excited about them going back to black shoes!  I was pissed the few times they wore them during the season in years past.  I can still remember seeing trenton hassell wearing black Jordan's...

 

Elite being one of the top three perimeter defenders in the league since 2001? Watch a game or two of his before you just go and agree with jordan or pippen or whoever. I have a good feeling you may have just watched one spurs game other than when they faced the bulls. Ron artest is not good defensively because he has o'neal right? Since that applies to bowen it should for artest too.

 

Like i said, let's start a poll at either place and get the results.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Elite being one of the top three perimeter defenders in the league since 2001? Watch a game or two of his before you just go and agree with jordan or pippen or whoever. I have a good feeling you may have just watched one spurs game other than when they faced the bulls. Ron artest is not good defensively because he has o'neal right? Since that applies to bowen it should for artest too.

 

Like i said, let's start a poll at either place and get the results.

 

Didn't know you were a spurs season-ticket holder...

 

I don't know if you read my post clearly or not, but what I said was that I respect Pippen's comments because of everything he has done for the Bulls and don't take too kindly to him being called a moron or dumbass...

 

Sure, I've watched bowen. I recognize that he's been all-defensive partly based on playing with Timmy. He's good, but not great.

 

One of my biggest pet peeves is people ASSUMING things about me. If you wanna know how many games I've seen or what I think of a guy like Ron Artest, ask me.

 

Opinion-based discussions have no clear right or wrong answers. I really don't mind not having the same opinions as know-it-alls...

[qwerty]

Didn't know you were a spurs season-ticket holder...

 

I don't know if you read my post clearly or not, but what I said was that I respect Pippen's comments because of everything he has done for the Bulls and don't take too kindly to him being called a moron or dumbass...

 

Sure, I've watched bowen.  I recognize that he's been all-defensive partly based on playing with Timmy.  He's good, but not great.

 

One of my biggest pet peeves is people ASSUMING things about me.  If you wanna know how many games I've seen or what I think of a guy like Ron Artest, ask me.

 

Opinion-based discussions have no clear right or wrong answers.  I really don't mind not having the same opinions as know-it-alls...

 

As i have stated before i have the nba package...

 

Pippen was a dick off the court, one of the biggest. Sure i respect what he has done with the bulls. Does that mean i have to agree with what he says or not call him a dumbass because he won 6 championships here? No. I did ask you about artest and also who is a better one on one/ perimiter defender in the league other than maybe artest?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

As i have stated before i have the nba package...

 

Pippen was a dick off the court, one of the biggest. Sure i respect what he has done with the bulls. Does that mean i have to agree with what he says or not call him a dumbass because he won 6 championships here? No. I did ask you about artest and also who is a better one on one/ perimiter defender in the league other than maybe artest?

 

By all means, call him a dumbass. But I'm gonna disagree with you every single time.

 

Depends on what you mean by "perimeter" defender. Artest is more lock-down. Kobe is better in all aspects of defense. LeBron is just as good, and better in the passing lanes. Hughes and Arenas are better in the passing lanes and will get more steals. Kidd, when healthy. Possibly Iguodala in the future...

Edited April 24, 2005 by SleepyWhiteSox

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I meant to add Doug Christie.

[qwerty]

By all means, call him a dumbass.  But I'm gonna disagree with you every single time. 

 

Depends on what you mean by "perimeter" defender.  Artest is more lock-down.  Kobe is better in all aspects of defense.  LeBron is just as good, and better in the passing lanes.  Hughes and Arenas are better in the passing lanes and will get more steals.  Kidd, when healthy.  Iguodala in the future...

 

Kobe bryant is one of the most overated defenders in the league. If you do not believe me you can go ahead and get others opinions on him ( unless of course they are a lakers fan they would be slurping him). He is always good, sometimes very good, but how often is he great? He is just like mcgrady, if they were not 30 point scorers they would never be eligible for defender of the year. It is very rare that you see either player play defense like they are capable of. Lebron gambles way too often as does huges. Before this year you never heard huges and good defense in the same sentence. If you consider getting burned half the time you go to steal the ball a good defender he is at the very top of the list. He also can't stay in front of people ( isn't that what a man on man defender should be doing?). Arenas is not even a candidate for dopy... he is very mediocore. Kidd=declining defensively mightily same thing goes for payton. In there primes they were beasts but that is no longer. Iggy is the future for sure though. It is already artest, bowen, and then iggy as the best in the league.

[nitetrain8601]

Elite being one of the top three perimeter defenders in the league since 2001? Watch a game or two of his before you just go and agree with jordan or pippen or whoever. I have a good feeling you may have just watched one spurs game other than when they faced the bulls. Ron artest is not good defensively because he has o'neal right? Since that applies to bowen it should for artest too.

 

Like i said, let's start a poll at either place and get the results.

 

First off, Ron Artest was always great defensively. Since he was with the Bulls and had nobody in the middle. Coming out of college, that was his thing. It's funny how Bowen turns great defensively as soon as he joins Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Just a coincidence though, right??

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Kobe bryant is one of the most overated defenders in the league. If you do not believe me you can go ahead and get others opinions on him ( unless of course they are a lakers fan they would be slurping him). He is always good, sometimes very good, but how often is he great? He is just like mcgrady, if they were not 30 point scorers they would never be eligible for defender of the year. It is very rare that you see either player play defense like they are capable of. Lebron gambles way too often as does huges. Before this year you never heard huges and good defense in the same sentence. If you consider getting burned half the time you go to steal the ball a good defender he is at the very top of the list. He also can't stay in front of people ( isn't that what a man on man defender should be doing?). Arenas is not even a candidate for dopy... he is very mediocore. Kidd=declining defensively mightily same thing goes for payton. In there primes they were beasts but that is no longer. Iggy is the future for sure though. It is already artest, bowen, and then iggy as the best in the league.

 

You really need to sit down and watch Kobe play one of these days.

 

I HATE Kobe Bryant. There's just something about his arrogance that I don't like. But I do recognize that, minus a few forced shots, he is one of the best players in the league and one of the, if not THE, top defensive guards in the league.

 

Just like T-Mac??? T-Mac eligible for Defensive Player of the Year??? Wow, you really killed yourself with that one...

 

Don't even put those two in the same sentence defensively. Kobe's D is probably underrated because of his scoring proficiency. He can lock down. He defends well. I've seen it time and time again during their championship (Damn, I hate the lakers) runs. Maybe you weren't following basketball then, but I won't assume..

 

And LeBron is WAY overhyped, but he can defend very well too.

[whitesoxin']

Is there a playoff game today?

[danman31]

Is there a playoff game today?

LOL, this talk should be seperated from the thread IMO. This is why game threads shouldn't be made more than a day before the game starts.

[qwerty]

You really need to sit down and watch Kobe play one of these days.

 

I HATE Kobe Bryant.  There's just something about his arrogance that I don't like.  But I do recognize that, minus a few forced shots, he is one of the best players in the league and one of the, if not THE, top defensive guards in the league. 

 

Just like T-Mac???        T-Mac eligible for Defensive Player of the Year???       Wow, you really killed yourself with that one...

 

Don't even put those two in the same sentence defensively.  Kobe's D is probably underrated because of his scoring proficiency.  He can lock down.  He defends well.  I've seen it time and time again during their championship (Damn, I hate the lakers) runs.  Maybe you weren't following basketball then, but I won't assume..

 

And LeBron is WAY overhyped, but he can defend very well too.

 

[qwerty]

First off, Ron Artest was always great defensively. Since he was with the Bulls and had nobody in the middle. Coming out of college, that was his thing. It's funny how Bowen turns great defensively as soon as he joins Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Just a coincidence though, right??

 

He has always been a great defender, always. But he use to not be able to knock down a 15 foot jump shot.

 

Sleepy still has me laughing holy f***ing s***.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Sleepy still has me laughing holy f***ing s***.

 

:headshake

 

Unless you're thinking of pietrus, dalembert, duhon, or pike, I have no idea what you're laughing about.

 

You do realize Kobe has been all-defensive a few times, right? And you've seen T-Mac's defense? Remember orlando?

 

 

I wonder how it feels to think you know so much yet come up with some of the stupidest opinions ever... :headshake

[qwerty]

:headshake

 

Unless you're thinking of pietrus, dalembert, duhon, or pike, I have no idea what you're laughing about.

 

You do realize Kobe has been all-defensive a few times, right?  And you've seen T-Mac's defense?  Remember orlando?

I wonder how it feels to think you know so much yet come up with some of the stupidest opinions ever...    :headshake

 

Lakers fans say this about his defense. I think they may know condiering they watch him night in night out.

 

He really is quite overated defensively and it is because of his offense that he is vastly overated.

 

Kobe is a generally good, not great, defensive player. This year, he really wasn't even good. Some of that is being forced to pick up slack for his vitamin D deficient teammates but then, on the other hand, he benefited on defense in previous years from having O'Neal as a defensive presence behind him.

 

He's never been anything like a DPoY candidate and this year it's simply absurd.

 

Anyone that honestly thinks kobe is a godly defender and that bowen is worse than him defensively is not worth talking to.

Edited April 24, 2005 by qwerty

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Lakers fans say this about his defense. I think they may know condiering they watch him night in night out.

 

He really is quite overated defensively and it is because of his offense that he is vastly overated.

Anyone that honestly thinks kobe is a godly defender and that bowen is worse than him defensively is not worth talking to.

 

I dare you to come up with an opinion by watching a game instead of what you read on bbbbbb...

 

Have you or have you not watched Kobe? Did you watch him when they were winning championships? I am seriously doubting you've paid attention to the NBA very long, especially with how young you are.

 

I honestly think Kobe is a better defender than bowen. You don't. It's called having a difference in opinions. Grow up and realize that people are going to disagree with some of the s*** you come up with. Having to see you post "you don't know basketball if you think..." or "if you don't agree with me on..., you're not worth talking to" is getting old.

 

 

And by the way, this is supposed to be a Bulls thread. :headshake

 

Maybe you're still bitter about getting called out and 'owned' in the Curry thread by nitetrain and a few others.

Edited April 24, 2005 by SleepyWhiteSox

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Thanks for the re-name.

 

I don't know who started talking about PIPPEN and bruce bowen...

[qwerty]

I dare you to come up with an opinion by watching a game instead of what you read on bbbbbb...

 

Have you or have you not watched Kobe?  Did you watch him when they were winning championships?  I am seriously doubting you've paid attention to the NBA very long, especially with how young you are.

 

I honestly think Kobe is a better defender than bowen.  You don't.  It's called having a difference in opinions.  Grow up and realize that people are going to disagree with some of the s*** you come up with.  Having to see you post "you don't know basketball if you think..." or "if you don't agree with me on..., you're not worth talking to" is getting old.

And by the way, this is supposed to be a Bulls thread.  I don't know how you manage to turn almost every basketball thread into an attack on whoever disagrees with you.  Sad. :headshake

 

I never attacked you.

 

Yes i have watched kobe hundreds of times. I have come up with my opinion and said it you disagree with it. ''I am seriously doubting you've paid attention to the NBA very long, especially with how young you are.'' Now i will say that is really retarded to say. I am 18, not 11, i can come up with my own opinions from watching a game and voice it. Like it or not it is not gonna stop me from doing so.

 

If you think kobe is a better defender than bowen that is cool. But the only others that will agree with you is a handful of people. Kobe was awesome against iverson in the finals when the 76'ers made it does that make him great? That is almost as pathetic as cubs fans and kerry wood.

 

The only reason anything else but bulls talk happened in this thread is because i talked about your beloved scottie pippen.

 

I see you edited your other post and i cealry never got owned by anyone. Nitetrain thinks is is o.k. that he should get the max and that curry can box out which he clearly is bad at. Many articles, announcers, websites, etc... agree with me. His defense has alot left to be desired.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Just harmless banter, qwerty.

 

As long as we both want a Bulls victory, all is well.

 

(Kobe on D and T-Mac on D are 2 completely different things.)

 

 

 

PIP on comcast right now...

[Brian]

Bill Walton is an idiot.

 

Yeah, shame on him for having an opinion.

[witesoxfan]

Don't even put those two in the same sentence defensively.  Kobe's D is probably underrated because of his scoring proficiency.  He can lock down.  He defends well.  I've seen it time and time again during their championship (Damn, I hate the lakers) runs.  Maybe you weren't following basketball then, but I won't assume..

 

 

Kobe had some 7 footer behind him too during those championship runs.

 

Atleast that's probably what Pippen would say

[whitesoxfan99]

I dare you to come up with an opinion by watching a game instead of what you read on bbbbbb...

 

Have you or have you not watched Kobe?  Did you watch him when they were winning championships?  I am seriously doubting you've paid attention to the NBA very long, especially with how young you are.

 

I honestly think Kobe is a better defender than bowen.  You don't.  It's called having a difference in opinions.  Grow up and realize that people are going to disagree with some of the s*** you come up with.  Having to see you post "you don't know basketball if you think..." or "if you don't agree with me on..., you're not worth talking to" is getting old.

And by the way, this is supposed to be a Bulls thread.  I don't know how you manage to turn almost every basketball thread into an attack on whoever disagrees with you.  Sad. :headshake

 

Who has Kobe ever locked down? I remember him trying to guard Mike Bibby when they played the Kings and Bibby absolutely embarrasing him. I remember Hamilton having a good series against him last year. Bottom line is what wings did he have to lock down during their title run. Against the Kings Rick Fox would take Peja and Kobe would guard Christie who is not a good offensive player and Bibby who lit him up. The Blazers go to guy when they should have beaten the Lakers if it wasn't for the officiating was Rasheed Wallace. The team that the Lakers have had the most problems with, the Spurs didn't have a great perimeter scorer. Last year, Ginobili and Devin Brown both has quite a bit of success scoring. Not to mention Sprewell who had a big series against the Lakers in the Conference finals last year. Also, every time I have seen Kobe guard T-Mac, McGrady has lit him up.

 

Is Kobe a bad defender, no. But I would not put him among the league elites. Bruce Bowen is a very good defender who always draws the opposing teams best wing and is a guy who annoys the hell out of everyone he guards. He is widely acknowledged as among the leagues best and causes guys a lot of problems because he is very sound with his technique on D and he plays real hard. Having Tim DUncan in the middle helps him some, but are you saying having Shaq in the middle didn't help Kobe then cause you can't have it both ways. I would also say that both Ron Artest and Tayshaun Prince are both much better defenders than Kobe Bryant as well. Prince made Bryant look bad over and over again in the playoffs last year and basically shut down everyone he guarded. You have to remember that it is impossible to shut down a great offensive player. Guys like Bowen, Prince, and Artest do a great job of severely limiting them however. I don't think Kobe has done that on a consistent basis. He has had his moments defensively and they just happen to be remembered more because he played for a winner.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Kobe had some 7 footer behind him too during those championship runs.

 

Atleast that's probably what Pippen would say

 

I was talking about T-Mac.

 

So you think he's better at D than Kobe too?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Who has Kobe ever locked down?  I remember him trying to guard Mike Bibby when they played the Kings and Bibby absolutely embarrasing him.  I remember Hamilton having a good series against him last year.  Bottom line is what wings did he have to lock down during their title run.  Against the Kings Rick Fox would take Peja and Kobe would guard Christie who is not a good offensive player and Bibby who lit him up.  The Blazers go to guy when they should have beaten the Lakers if it wasn't for the officiating was Rasheed Wallace.  The team that the Lakers have had the most problems with, the Spurs didn't have a great  perimeter scorer.  Last year, Ginobili and Devin Brown both has quite a bit of success scoring.  Not to mention Sprewell who had a big series against the Lakers in the Conference finals last year.  Also, every time I have seen Kobe guard T-Mac, McGrady has lit him up.

 

Is Kobe a bad defender, no.  But I would not put him among the league elites.  Bruce Bowen is a very good defender who always draws the opposing teams best wing and is a guy who annoys the hell out of everyone he guards.  He is widely acknowledged as among the leagues best and causes guys a lot of problems because he is very sound with his technique on D and he plays real hard.  Having Tim DUncan in the middle helps him some, but are you saying having Shaq in the middle didn't help Kobe then cause you can't have it both ways.  I would also say that both Ron Artest and Tayshaun Prince are both much better defenders than Kobe Bryant as well.  Prince made Bryant look bad over and over again in the playoffs last year and basically shut down everyone he guarded.  You have to remember that it is impossible to shut down a great offensive player.  Guys like Bowen, Prince, and Artest do a great job of severely limiting them however.  I don't think Kobe has done that on a consistent basis.  He has had his moments defensively and they just happen to be remembered more because he played for a winner.

 

It was stated before that Kobe locked up AI in the Finals.

 

Kobe has a couple of all-defensive teams under his belt. I guess I'm wrong along with everyone who voted him in for it in multiple years.

 

Kobe is the better defender at the guard position. Artest and Prince are SF's.

 

 

So everyone else agrees that T-Mac is as good a defender as Kobe?

Edited April 24, 2005 by SleepyWhiteSox