whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:16 PM) First, we were not arguing about later than 2nd, but after the first. I would say there is just as much success rate in a QB taken after then 1st round. Tim Couch, Cade McNown, and Akili Smith were in the same draft that produced Donovan McNabb and Daunte Culpepper. Peyton Manning was in the same draft as Ryan Leaf. Drew Brees, who some consider last years MVP, was taken in the 2nd round of the same draft as Michael Vick, who may be overrated as a QB. The success rate is the same. You are taking a chance mo matter where you draft the QB. I don't think Rodgers was worth the pick for the Packers when they had other needs to fill. The success rate is no where near the same and you are kidding yourself if you truly think that. Sure there are a lot of busts in the first round but there are tons of quarterbacks that don't even make teams or are career third stringers from the later rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:12 PM) The point isn't whether you can find a mediocre quarterback that gets by for a year or two in the later rounds. Clearly you can. But how many franchise-type QB's get taken on the second day of the draft? In the last 20 years it's basically Brady, with Young coming out of the USFL. Not exactly a high success rate there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So Brett Favre is not a franchis QB? Tom Brady is not a franchise QB? How many franchise QBs are there? Are you actually telling me Rodgers is a franchise QB? I highly doubt that. Steve Young was drafted by TB wasn't he? He wasn't taken directly out of the USFL. If that is the case then so was Jim Kelly. Most of the QBs in this league could not be considered franchise QBs. You are picking out a select few if you are doing that. There is not a high success rate picking these players in the first round either. There is just as much a boom or bust in the first round with QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:21 PM) The success rate is no where near the same and you are kidding yourself if you truly think that. Sure there are a lot of busts in the first round but there are tons of quarterbacks that don't even make teams or are career third stringers from the later rounds. Its pointless to try to get this through to him, he wont get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:21 PM) The success rate is no where near the same and you are kidding yourself if you truly think that. Sure there are a lot of busts in the first round but there are tons of quarterbacks that don't even make teams or are career third stringers from the later rounds. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So because there are more QBs taken in the first round it makes a better success rate? Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown and Ryan Leaf are not even in the league anymore. I don't think there is a higher success rate because there are more QBs taken in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:22 PM) Its pointless to try to get this through to him, he wont get it <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have proven absolutely nothing, but then again do you ever? You usually just hope others point things out for you and hope your right. You are clueless. Oh, and I almost forgot, you throw in childish insults to help your case. Edited April 25, 2005 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:22 PM) Most of the QBs in this league could not be considered franchise QBs. Franchise QB's Culpepper Manning Favre McNabb Brady Carr Hasselbeck Leftwhich Pennington Vick McNair Those are ALL Franchise QB's, thats without mention people who were picked to be the Franchise like Palmer, Roethlisberger, Smith, and Manning Edited April 25, 2005 by T R U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) You have proven absolutely nothing, but then again do you ever? You usually just hope others point things out for you and hope your right. You are clueless. Oh, and I almost forgot, you throw in childish insults to help your case. I have said the same thing everyone else has told you... get it through your head, your wrong and now your just looking like an ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:23 PM) So because there are more QBs taken in the first round it makes a better success rate? Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown and Ryan Leaf are not even in the league anymore. I don't think there is a higher success rate because there are more QBs taken in the first round. There aren't more quarterbacks taken in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) Franchise QB's Culpepper Manning Favre McNabb Brady Carr Hasselbeck Leftwhich Pennington Vick Those are ALL Franchise QB's, thats without mention people who were picked to be the Franchise like Palmer or Roethlisberger <{POST_SNAPBACK}> really Carr, Vick, Leftwich, Pennington, and Hasselbeck have proven this how? How has Palmer or Roethlisberger? I agree they can be, but to make the statement that they already are is kind of ludicrous. Edited April 25, 2005 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) I have said the same thing everyone else has told you... get it through your head, your wrong and now your just looking like an ass <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No you haven't. Other have come up with good arguments. Zoom came up with a very good one that you tried to piggy back. You havent shown s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:27 PM) really Carr, Vick, Leftwich, Pennington, and Hasselbeck have progen this how? How has Palmer or Roethlisberger? I agree they can be, but to make the statement that they already are is kind of ludicrous. Take a look at the Falcons record with and without Vick to see why he is a franchice quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) really Carr, Vick, Leftwich, Pennington, and Hasselbeck have progen this how? How has Palmer or Roethlisberger? I agree they can be, but to make the statement that they already are is kind of ludicrous. I didnt say Palmer and Roeth were, I said that were PICKED to be Carr was #1 overall, he is the face of the franchise and has improved every year.. he is a franchise QB Um, Vick was just in the NFC Title game and the Falcons BUILD around him.. I dont like him as a QB but he IS a Franchise QB Pennington another 1st round choice that has developed into a very good QB, hes a franchise QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:28 PM) No you haven't. Other have come up with good arguments. Zoom came up with a very good one that you tried to piggy back. You havent shown s***. Thats that same f***ing thing I have been saying that he said, you have just been painted into a corner now and trying to cover your ass.. Give it up, your argument is pointless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:29 PM) Take a look at the Falcons record with and without Vick to see why he is a franchice quarterback. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So he can run and protect the ball very well. He is a great option QB. Ok though Whitesox I will give you that one, but only because he got them to the playoffs by himself. But what have the rest proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:30 PM) Thats that same f***ing thing I have been saying that he said, you have just been painted into a corner now and trying to cover your ass.. Give it up, your argument is pointless <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Go back and point out where you said anything close to what Zoom said you ridiculous fool. You could have never came up with that argument by yourself. You are half a retard waiting for answers to be handed out. Now put your dunce cap and go to the back of the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:29 PM) I didnt say Palmer and Roeth were, I said that were PICKED to be Carr was #1 overall, he is the face of the franchise and has improved every year.. he is a franchise QB Um, Vick was just in the NFC Title game and the Falcons BUILD around him.. I dont like him as a QB but he IS a Franchise QB Pennington another 1st round choice that has developed into a very good QB, hes a franchise QB <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Carr is not franchise. He can be, but isn't. Pennington is not franchise. He can be, but isn't. Just because you are picked to be a franchise QB doesn't mean you are one. I already agreed with WhiteSox that Vick is. Although I don't believe he is a great QB or even as good as Drew Brees, however he can run and protect the ball very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:32 PM) Go back and point out where you said anything close to what Zoom said you ridiculous fool. You could have never came up with that argument by yourself. You are half a retard waiting for answers to be handed out. Now put your dunce cap and go to the back of the room. look at the things I said BEFORE Zoom posted you dickhead.. Ive been saying the same things everyone else has been telling you.. your just too f***ing ignorant to realize it so you wanna sit here and try to justify your bulls*** posts which make no sense.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:36 PM) look at the things I said BEFORE Zoom posted you dickhead.. Ive been saying the same things everyone else has been telling you.. your just too f***ing ignorant to realize it so you wanna sit here and try to justify your bulls*** posts which make no sense.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> sorry but you didn't. sad sad little man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) FWIW only about 4 teams have wortwhile QB's not from the 1st round. Chiefs, Rams, Patriots, Packers Edited April 25, 2005 by WHarris1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:38 PM) FWIW only about 3 teams have wortwhile QB's not from the 1st round. Chiefs, Rams, Patriots <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Seahawks, Charger, Packers, Saints as well Hassellbeck Brees Favre Brooks Edited April 25, 2005 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:35 PM) Carr is not franchise. He can be, but isn't. Pennington is not franchise. He can be, but isn't. Just because you are picked to be a franchise QB doesn't mean you are one. I already agreed with WhiteSox that Vick is. Although I don't believe he is a great QB or even as good as Drew Brees, however he can run and protect the ball very well. Um, when an Expansion Franchise takes you 1st overall to be THE Franchise, you are a Franchise QB.. VERY few teams have QB's starting that werent 1st rounders... Bears, Lions, Vikings, Bills, Jets, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Texans, Colts, Jags, Titans, Chargers (1st pick of 2nd round), Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Falcons, Giants all have a 1st rounder starting for them.. Edited April 25, 2005 by T R U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:30 PM) So he can run and protect the ball very well. He is a great option QB. Ok though Whitesox I will give you that one, but only because he got them to the playoffs by himself. But what have the rest proven. Hasselbeck has made the pro bowl and led his team to the playoffs. In 2002 Pennington was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and had a passer rating of over 100 and this year took his team to the second round of the playoffs. When he is healthy he is pro bowl caliber but he has had trouble staying healthy the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:39 PM) Um, when an Expansion Franchise takes you 1st overall to be THE Franchise, you are a Franchise QB.. VERY few teams have QB's starting that werent 1st rounders... Bears, Lions, Vikings, Bills, Jets, Ravens, Bengals, Steelers, Texans, Colts, Jags, Titans, Chargers (1st pick of 2nd round), Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Falcons, Saints, Giants all have a 1st rounder starting for them.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Saints dont and Chargers don, 1st pick of second round is still a second rounder. PLus I said 17 or 18 starting QBs are first rounders. How many of them will be considered good? Bears Lions Bills Ravens Bengals Steelers Texans Jags Giants and Redskins QBs still have not proven themselves to be good over the long haul. Edited April 25, 2005 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:40 PM) Hasselbeck has made the pro bowl and led his team to the playoffs. In 2002 Pennington was one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and had a passer rating of over 100 and this year took his team to the second round of the playoffs. When he is healthy he is pro bowl caliber but he has had trouble staying healthy the last couple of years. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> so you are saying inconsistency is a good way to judge if someone is a franchise QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:40 PM) Saints dont and Chargers don, 1st pick of second round is still a second rounder Over half.. 17 teams Edited April 25, 2005 by T R U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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