whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:41 PM) so you are saying inconsistency is a good way to judge if someone is a franchise QB? How does being injured=being inconsitent. When Pennington is on the field he is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:43 PM) How does being injured=being inconsitent. When Pennington is on the field he is very good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> and hasselbeck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:43 PM) Over half.. 17 teams <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I already stated this in one of my first posts. I guess you weren't paying attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:40 PM) Saints dont and Chargers don, 1st pick of second round is still a second rounder. PLus I said 17 or 18 starting QBs are first rounders. How many of them will be considered good? Bears Lions Bills Ravens Bengals Steelers Texans Jags Giants and Redskins QBs still have not proven themselves to be good over the long haul. Doesnt change the fact that they are 1st round QB's starting.... not 4th or 5th rounders.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:44 PM) Doesnt change the fact that they are 1st round QB's starting.... not 4th or 5th rounders.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How long will they be starting? Does this prove that they are good or will not be busts? I think not. It is way too early to tell one way or another. Horrifible argument. Edited April 25, 2005 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:43 PM) Over half.. 17 teams Shouldn't the Cowboys be on that list? I assume Bledsoe will probably start for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:47 PM) Shouldn't the Cowboys be on that list? I assume Bledsoe will probably start for them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yes he should. good job 19 teams with 1st round starting QBs. However many are very young and you can't tell if they will be good or not. Remember Rick Mirer? Set rookie QB records. Where is he now? Edited April 25, 2005 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) QB's taken after first round since 2000: Matt Schaub, Luke McCown, Craig Krenzel, Andy Hall, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, John Navarre, Cody Pickett, Casey Bramlet, Matt Mauck, B.J. Symons, Bradlee Van Pelt, Dave Ragone, Chris Simms, Seneca Wallace, Brian St. Pierre, Drew Henson, Brooks Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury, Gibran Hamdan, Ken Dorsey, Josh McCown, David Garrard, Rohan Davey, Randy Fasani, Kurt Kittner, Brandon Doman, Craig Nall, J.T. O'Sullivan, Seth Burford, Jeff Kelly, Wes Pate, Drew Brees, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo, Chris Weinke, Sage Rosenfels, Jesse Palmer, Mike McMahon, A.J. Feeley, Josh Booty, Josh Heupel, Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, Tee Martin, Marc Bulger, Spergon Wynn, Tom Brady, Todd Husak, JaJuan Seider, Tim Rattay, Jarious Jackson, Joe Hamilton, Derek Anderson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel, Charlie Frye, David Greene, Stefan LeFors, James Kilian, Adrian McPherson, Dan Orlovski, Kyle Orton, Andrew Walter QB's taken in first round since 2000: Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers Bolding the Starters now... Bold' Campbell and Ramsey cuz one will start Edited April 25, 2005 by T R U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:44 PM) and hasselbeck? Hasselbeck has had very similar season the last three years with his QB rating being in the mid to upper 80s each year which is pretty solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:48 PM) QB's taken after first round since 2000: Matt Schaub, Luke McCown, Craig Krenzel, Andy Hall, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, John Navarre, Cody Pickett, Casey Bramlet, Matt Mauck, B.J. Symons, Bradlee Van Pelt, Dave Ragone, Chris Simms, Seneca Wallace, Brian St. Pierre, Drew Henson, Brooks Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury, Gibran Hamdan, Ken Dorsey, Josh McCown, David Garrard, Rohan Davey, Randy Fasani, Kurt Kittner, Brandon Doman, Craig Nall, J.T. O'Sullivan, Seth Burford, Jeff Kelly, Wes Pate, Drew Brees, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo, Chris Weinke, Sage Rosenfels, Jesse Palmer, Mike McMahon, A.J. Feeley, Josh Booty, Josh Heupel, Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, Tee Martin, Marc Bulger, Spergon Wynn, Tom Brady, Todd Husak, JaJuan Seider, Tim Rattay, Jarious Jackson, Joe Hamilton, Derek Anderson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel, Charlie Frye, David Greene, Stefan LeFors, James Kilian, Adrian McPherson, Dan Orlovski, Kyle Orton, Andrew Walter QB's taken in first round since 2000: Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Meaningless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:48 PM) Hasselbeck has had very similar season the last three years with his QB rating being in the mid to upper 80s each year which is pretty solid. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> pretty solid does not meet franchise standards does it? Don't get me wrong, he is very good and can be a franchise type, but at this moment I would not declare him as a franchise type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:50 PM) Meaningless Meaningless? Your whole f***ING argument started with the fact that the Packers could have gotten someone else in the 5th round and still would have had equal talent to Aaron Rodgers... I think that list I just posted should shut your ass up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:48 PM) QB's taken after first round since 2000: Matt Schaub, Luke McCown, Craig Krenzel, Andy Hall, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, John Navarre, Cody Pickett, Casey Bramlet, Matt Mauck, B.J. Symons, Bradlee Van Pelt, Dave Ragone, Chris Simms, Seneca Wallace, Brian St. Pierre, Drew Henson, Brooks Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury, Gibran Hamdan, Ken Dorsey, Josh McCown, David Garrard, Rohan Davey, Randy Fasani, Kurt Kittner, Brandon Doman, Craig Nall, J.T. O'Sullivan, Seth Burford, Jeff Kelly, Wes Pate, Drew Brees, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo, Chris Weinke, Sage Rosenfels, Jesse Palmer, Mike McMahon, A.J. Feeley, Josh Booty, Josh Heupel, Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, Tee Martin, Marc Bulger, Spergon Wynn, Tom Brady, Todd Husak, JaJuan Seider, Tim Rattay, Jarious Jackson, Joe Hamilton, Derek Anderson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel, Charlie Frye, David Greene, Stefan LeFors, James Kilian, Adrian McPherson, Dan Orlovski, Kyle Orton, Andrew Walter QB's taken in first round since 2000: Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers Bolding the Starters now... Bold' Campbell and Ramsey cuz one will start <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If QBs Harrington, Ramsey, Boller, Grossman, Manning, Rivers, Roethilisberger, Losman, and Smith fail, then where does this put your argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:54 PM) If QBs Harrington, Ramsey, Boller, Grossman, Manning, Rivers, Roethilisberger, Losman, and Smith fail, then where does this put your argument? That the ratio of success for 1st round quarterback is still higher than that of QBs drafted after the 1st round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:53 PM) Meaningless? Your whole f***ING argument started with the fact that the Packers could have gotten someone else in the 5th round and still would have had equal talent to Aaron Rodgers... I think that list I just posted should shut your ass up Take it easy spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) If QBs Harrington, Ramsey, Boller, Grossman, Manning, Rivers, Roethilisberger, Losman, and Smith fail, then where does this put your argument? ahhh the what if game... face it... that list I posted alone proves if you want a starting QB your chances are better getting one in round ONE.. Not EVERYONE will work out, BUT those taken in the first work out a lot better than someone taken in later rounds... You dont have to like it, but the proof is right there in front of your face.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:53 PM) Meaningless? Your whole f***ING argument started with the fact that the Packers could have gotten someone else in the 5th round and still would have had equal talent to Aaron Rodgers... I think that list I just posted should shut your ass up <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh is that what I stated? I think you better go back and check that out. I stated that I would have rather had Marlin Jackson or another defensive player in the first round because it would fill a greater need. I said I would have rather had Campbell, Frye, Orton, or McPherson than Rodgers and take a defensive player in the first. I stated that Campbell, Frye, Orton, and McPherson are equal to or better than Rodgers. You want to go back and look at my argument? I never once stated what you in fact just claimed that I did. Like I said you don't even know what you are arguing about anymore. You are absolutely clueless. You fought all this time because that is what you thought I said? You sure wasted a lot of your time buddy. Damn retards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 10:56 PM) ahhh the what if game... face it... that list I posted alone proves if you want a starting QB your chances are better getting one in round ONE.. Not EVERYONE will work out, BUT those taken in the first work out a lot better than someone taken in later rounds... You dont have to like it, but the proof is right there in front of your face.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That list proves absolutely nothing. There are a ton of busts just waiting to happen on your first round list. Absolutely meaningless list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 How do you suggest GB takes a defender in the first and gets Campbell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:58 PM) Oh is that what I stated? I think you better go back and check that out. I stated that I would have rather had Marlin Jackson or another defensive player in the first round because it would fill a greater need. I said I would have rather had Campbell, Frye, Orton, or McPherson than Rodgers and take a defensive player in the first. I stated that Campbell, Frye, Orton, and McPherson are equal to or better than Rodgers. You want to go back and look at my argument? I never once stated what you in fact just claimed that I did. Like I said you don't even know what you are arguing about anymore. You are absolutely clueless. You fought all this time because that is what you thought I said? You sure wasted a lot of your time buddy. Damn retards. QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:16 PM) First, we were not arguing about later than 2nd, but after the first. I would say there is just as much success rate in a QB taken after then 1st round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:59 PM) That list proves absolutely nothing. There are a ton of busts just waiting to happen on your first round list. Absolutely meaningless list. Ok ignore the people taken this year and then re look at the list... anyway you wanna try and "what if" this your wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 You could also go through soley the established QBs and the ratio of 1stround:2-7 is staggering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:58 PM) Damn retards. QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:25 PM) Oh, and I almost forgot, you throw in childish insults to help your case. Thanks for being the bigger man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:54 PM) If QBs Harrington, Ramsey, Boller, Grossman, Manning, Rivers, Roethilisberger, Losman, and Smith fail, then where does this put your argument? There is no chance all of them fail, and I say that knowing that most have not proven themselves. No chance. The fact that Roethlisberger has only lost 1 game as a starter only helps that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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