Bears Draft Grade

[T R U]

Which is why I was so happy with the Bills draft  :rolly

 

Best pick they had was Everett...

 

I still think they should have taken Justin Miller or a LT with their second pick..

[thomsonmi]

workhorse running backs are fairly easy to acquire these days.

 

They are?!?!? How many can you count in the NFL?

 

Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes... who else?

 

Benson is seen as an incredible red zone running back by scouts. He's never going to be a breakaway threat but hell neither was Walter Payton or Emmitt Smith.

 

Angelo chose Benson because he felt a solid running back was a more important addition than a solid wide receiver like Mike Williams. Fact is, on numbers of touches alone in a game that belief is hard to argue with. I favored drafting Williams myself but in reality of Benson is the grinder he's expected to be we will be able to control the ball and make our defense even better than it already is.

 

This was a solid pick especially given the fact that Ronnie Brown was already chosen.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So what does everybody think of the Bears overhaul on offense?

 

New offensive coordinator=Ron Turner

 

Free agent wr=Muhsin Muhammad

 

Offensive line=Fred Miller, Roberto Garza

 

Draft=Cedric Benson, Mark Bradley, Airese Currie, Kyle Orton

 

 

Will the Bears offense be much better than last year? Can't get any worse, right? Will this be an offense capable of 21 ppg? I really think it will be. That, coupled with a healthy defense, and will make some serious noise in the NFC North.

[Capn12]

Curries hands are average at best...moreso quite the pass dropper in his career at Clemson. There is no question about his speed, as he was a track guy here at Clemson also, but a bit small, and stonehanded are the 2 things that would worry me as a Bears fan.

[Hatchetman]

back in the olden days, the bears had a receiver named willie gault, who was a track star in college. he had absolutely no football skills at all, other than to sprint downfield. the defense had to worry about him, becuase 50% of the time he would catch a ball that got to him and he'd be gone. i dunno, maybe he caught 30 passes/year. but he helped the running game a hell of a lot by keeping the safeties worried about the deep ball.

[Capn12]

Olden days...

 

C'mon now, Wilie Gault isn't old days....I remember watching him every week and I'm only 28. Don't be tryin to make me feel old

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 27, 2005 -> 10:47 PM)

I agree with you on Benson but come on man..

 

All I have to say is watch the one handed catch he made Vs Michigan in the Rose Bowl.. Mike Williams is a franchise reciever and comparing him to Mark f***ing Bradley should get you laughed off this site

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

T R U you really should learn how to argue a point. Nothing that you have stated had any substance to it at all. One catch makes you a franchise receiver? About getting seperation? He has not proven he could even do that in college. In his final game he wasn't even the best receiver on the field. That would have been Keary Colbert. He has proven absolutely nothing and you think he is a franchise receiver?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 06:04 PM)

Olden days...

 

C'mon now, Wilie Gault isn't old days....I remember watching him every week and I'm only 28. Don't be tryin to make me feel old

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He last played in 93. He last played with the Bears in 87. That is 12 and 18 years respectively. I think that can be considered the old days.

[Mamoscott]

They are?!?!?  How many can you count in the NFL?

 

Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes...  who else?

 

Benson is seen as an incredible red zone running back by scouts. He's never going to be a breakaway threat but hell neither was Walter Payton or Emmitt Smith.

 

Angelo chose Benson because he felt a solid running back was a more important addition than a solid wide receiver like Mike Williams. Fact is, on numbers of touches alone in a game that belief is hard to argue with. I favored drafting Williams myself but in reality of Benson is the grinder he's expected to be we will be able to control the ball and make our defense even better than it already is.

 

 

Lewis and Holmes were all you could come up with?

 

Corey Dillon, Ahman Green, Rudi Johnson, Curtis Martin, Tiki Barber, Clinton Portis, Chris Brown, Sean Alexander, Edgerrin James, Deuce McAlllister, LD Tomlinson, etc. There are more, like Stephen Davis, but they got hit with bad injuries last season. Running backs are all over the place. In addition, the Colts were rumored to be trying to deal Edge, and the Bills were trying to deal Henry because McGahee has emerged as their workhorse back. We didn't need to upgrade our RB though, since we have Jones anyway.

 

IF you don't like Thomas Jones, I'll just quote a post from another message board I frequent, which echoes my sentiments exactly:

 

Last year, Thomas Jones compiled 950 yards rushing and 430 receiving in 13 games with what should be considered the among the ugliest combinations of OL, QBs, and WRs seen in the NFL for the last decade - certainly the worst in the league last year. Extrapolating out to 16 games, thats roughly 1200/550, all while facing 8 man fronts and literally being the only offensive weapon the team had.

 

Why did the Bears need to spend a top 5 pick to replace this guy? What makes them think he wouldn't do much better with a real OL and an actual passing game, that they would purport to have this year? The world may never know. Some arguments being bandied about by raving homers are that he doesn't fit Turner's system well enough, or that he's too injury prone. Turner's system, supposedly, can ONLY work with a tough power back who can get tough yards, and run between the tackles. Jones showed last year that he can get tough yards, that he can convert third and shorts, and that he can score in the red zone. In fact, he lead the league in redzone TD percentage when inside the 10, and was near the top in third and short conversions. And he did all of this while, as I stated, facing mostly 8 man fronts where the other team had absolutely no fear of a passing game. And injuries? He's had one injury in the last couple years, causing him to miss those 3 games in 2004. What is the problem here?

 

 

Also, the "Mike Williams can't get separation" comments are hilarious. Williams had 176 catches for 2,570 yards and 30 touchdowns in two seasons at USC. The Bears' round two stud Mark Bradley managed 34 catches for 7 touchdowns in his two years at Oklahoma. As TRU said, Williams is a franchise WR, and comparing him to a guy like Bradley is a joke.

[ZoomSlowik]

Just a question Zoom, but why do you like Mike Williams so much? He is big and tall, but he never gets seperation and that was in college. NFL DBs are much better than college DBs, so if he got no seperation in college how is he going to get it in the NFL?

 

Also, how does he fit with the Bears? Why would you want identical receivers on either side? You need a speed guy opposite Mushin Muhammed, you don't need someone that is going to get you 5 or 6 yards when you need it.

 

I am much happier taking Cedrick Benson and Mark Bradley than taking Mike Williams and JJ Arrington. I think Arrington will be good, but he also is not a fit for the Bears. He doesn't fit in with what they want to do.

 

I really don't understand everyone's fascination with Mike Williams. He wasn't even going to be drafted in the top 10 last year if he came out. Most had Reggie Williams and Lee Evans ranked ahead of him. Why is he so great this year? Is he as good as Michael Clayton? He was drafted at 15! I just don't see it and I am glad we didn't pick him.

 

Where did this idea that we absolutely need a speed guy on the other side come from? If Muhammad is so damn good, why wouldn't we want the same receiver on the other side? Who really cares how fast a guy runs if he is productive? There have been plenty of spectacular WR's that do not have top speed. It's very rare that you are going to actually hit a 40 yard plus streak play in the NFL, especially since our QB play leaves something to be desired. Williams can still stretch the field without running a 4.3. If you have to cover him downfield on a 30 or 40 yard jump ball, that's some major pressure, especially when you get near the red zone. He's still considerably bigger than every DB in the pros, and he has fantastic hands. I've seen him make numerous catches worthy of guys like Moss and Carter, the later being a guy I can see him being very similar too.

 

I think your memory is a little hazy concerning last year's rankings. I read an awful lot of material before the draft, and he was far and away the #2 WR on pretty much everyone's board behind Roy Williams. Reggie Williams was picked to go somewhere around #20, Lee Evans in the latter 3rd of the first round. He was picked to go anywhere between about #6 and #15. The only reason the other two moved up was that Mike wasn't there. Had he played at USC this year, Williams would have been one of the top 3, ranked ahead of Edwards. In fact, Kiper said many times during the draft that he would have been the #1 pick if that had happened. Also, I never said anything about taking Arrington, I wanted us to wait a while to take a power back to complement Jones. Obviously Benson is better than the guys you'd find in the 3rd or 4th, but Williams is better than those guys too, and I'd rather have the significant upgrade at WR than RB given our current personel. I think Jones will be solid if he and the bulk of the line stay healthy. On the other hand, I think our receivers needed another significant threat desperately.

[T R U]

T R U you really should learn how to argue a point. Nothing that you have stated had any substance to it at all. One catch makes you a franchise receiver? About getting seperation? He has not proven he could even do that in college. In his final game he wasn't even the best receiver on the field. That would have been Keary Colbert. He has proven absolutely nothing and you think he is a franchise receiver?

 

I think you really should not try to make ridiculous "arguments" when what your saying is complete bulls*** that not one person agrees with because (this may shock you) your WRONG!

 

Look at his stats, he was one of the best WRs in the nation when he was at USC.. your just, AGAIN, making stupid arguments prolly cuz you just wanna read your own posts..

[T R U]

I think your memory is a little hazy concerning last year's rankings. I read an awful lot of material before the draft, and he was far and away the #2 WR on pretty much everyone's board behind Roy Williams. Reggie Williams was picked to go somewhere around #20, Lee Evans in the latter 3rd of the first round. He was picked to go anywhere between about #6 and #15. The only reason the other two moved up was that Mike wasn't there. Had he played at USC this year, Williams would have been one of the top 3, ranked ahead of Edwards. In fact, Kiper said many times during the draft that he would have been the #1 pick if that had happened. Also, I never said anything about taking Arrington, I wanted us to wait a while to take a power back to complement Jones. Obviously Benson is better than the guys you'd find in the 3rd or 4th, but Williams is better than those guys too, and I'd rather have the significant upgrade at WR than RB given our current personel. I think Jones will be solid if he and the bulk of the line stay healthy. On the other hand, I think our receivers needed another significant threat desperately.

 

lmfao.... Kiper had Mike Williams #1 on his big board... but what does he know.. he only does that stuff FOR A LIVING!!!

 

I forgot irish knows more than him..

Edited April 28, 2005 by T R U

[WHarris1]

lmfao.... Kiper had Mike Williams #1 on his big board... but what does he know.. he only does that stuff FOR A LIVING!!!         

 

I forgot irish knows more than him..

Yep he always loves Bradley and you said he was dumb for that...

[T R U]

Yep he always loves Bradley and you said he was dumb for that...

 

Never once seen anyone thrilled with Bradley.. everything I have seen has had them question the pick

[WHarris1]

Never once seen anyone thrilled with Bradley.. everything I have seen has had them question the pick 

I meant to say Kiper nutted all over Bradley, but what does he know

[T R U]

I meant to say Kiper nutted all over Bradley, but what does he know

 

I do not recall Kiper nutting on Bradley.. so I dont know about that.. Hard to picture anyone nutting over a player with 34 career catches.. but maybe you saw something I didnt

[WHarris1]

I do not recall Kiper nutting on Bradley.. so I dont know about that.. Hard to picture anyone nutting over a player with 34 career catches.. but maybe you saw something I didnt 

Oh that's right you weren't around when he was picked.

Nevermind, you got on later that night.

 

He said he was the best steal of the 1st 2 rounds. And pretty much had a hardon for him for a good 3 minutes.

Edited April 28, 2005 by WHarris1

[T R U]

Oh that's right you weren't around when he was picked.

Nevermind, you got on later that night.

 

He said he was the best steal of the 1st 2 rounds.  And pretty much had a hardon for him for a good 3 minutes.

 

Oh thats true I did miss the 2nd round, I went to play basketball to kill time before Miami's pick..

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 10:45 PM)

I think you really should not try to make ridiculous "arguments" when what your saying is complete bulls*** that not one person agrees with because (this may shock you) your WRONG!

 

Look at his stats, he was one of the best WRs in the nation when he was at USC.. your just, AGAIN, making stupid arguments prolly cuz you just wanna read your own posts..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Another pointless post with absolutely no substance. And why does someone need to have others agree with them in order to be right?

 

Stats do not tell the whole picture. Watch the games. He never got seperation from the DBs in college. NEVER! If he was a TE this would be a different story, but hes not. You don't spend a #4 or even a #10 pick on a posession/slot receiver. It just doesn't make sense.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 09:23 PM)

Where did this idea that we absolutely need a speed guy on the other side come from? If Muhammad is so damn good, why wouldn't we want the same receiver on the other side? Who really cares how fast a guy runs if he is productive? There have been plenty of spectacular WR's that do not have top speed. It's very rare that you are going to actually hit a 40 yard plus streak play in the NFL, especially since our QB play leaves something to be desired. Williams can still stretch the field without running a 4.3. If you have to cover him downfield on a 30 or 40 yard jump ball, that's some major pressure, especially when you get near the red zone. He's still considerably bigger than every DB in the pros, and he has fantastic hands. I've seen him make numerous catches worthy of guys like Moss and Carter, the later being a guy I can see him being very similar too.

 

I think your memory is a little hazy concerning last year's rankings. I read an awful lot of material before the draft, and he was far and away the #2 WR on pretty much everyone's board behind Roy Williams. Reggie Williams was picked to go somewhere around #20, Lee Evans in the latter 3rd of the first round. He was picked to go anywhere between about #6 and #15. The only reason the other two moved up was that Mike wasn't there. Had he played at USC this year, Williams would have been one of the top 3, ranked ahead of Edwards. In fact, Kiper said many times during the draft that he would have been the #1 pick if that had happened. Also, I never said anything about taking Arrington, I wanted us to wait a while to take a power back to complement Jones. Obviously Benson is better than the guys you'd find in the 3rd or 4th, but Williams is better than those guys too, and I'd rather have the significant upgrade at WR than RB given our current personel. I think Jones will be solid if he and the bulk of the line stay healthy. On the other hand, I think our receivers needed another significant threat desperately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Zoom, you bring up some good points, you really do. I dont agree with you, but I respect your position and I can see where you are coming from. I never said 40 times meant everything, but the fact is Mike WIlliams never gained seperation against college DBs. YOu can still gain seperation without having great speed, but he was never able to. He won't be able to do the same things agaisnt NFL DBs. He is neither quick, not fast. He is a plodder.

 

You do need someone else opposite Moose that can stretch the field. You don't want someone the same and not be able to stretch the field because then they know you can't throw it deep. The field then becomes cut in half. If you have someone like Bradley and Berrian that can fly, then you spread the field and create more room for your RB and underneath receivers. That is why you don't want 2 Moose/Mike WIlliams type guys.

 

My memory is not hazy at all about where he was being ranked. Kiper liked him, but he was slipping and slipping fast. I never once seen him ranked ahead of Larry Fitzgerald or Roy Williams. The highest I saw him last year was 3. But then Lee Evans flew up the board in the final days and so did Reggie Williams. Lee because he can flat out fly. Before the draft everyone knew Fitz, Roy Williams and Evans were going to be the top 3. A lot of mock drafts had it even between Reggie Williams and Mike Williams. It was not a given that he was even top 4 last year. Then all of a sudden Mike Williams is this stud that you MUST have? I just find that wierd.

 

I would really much rather have Mark Bradley and Cedric Benson than Mike Williams and any other RB we would have got with our other picks. JMO

[jackie hayes]

I think your memory is a little hazy concerning last year's rankings. I read an awful lot of material before the draft, and he was far and away the #2 WR on pretty much everyone's board behind Roy Williams.

I think Williams will be a very good receiver, and I agree with most of what you say about him -- but you are forgetting one Larry Fitzgerald, who was kinda a pretty good prospect himself...

[T R U]

I think Williams will be a very good receiver, and I agree with most of what you say about him -- but you are forgetting one Larry Fitzgerald, who was kinda a pretty good prospect himself...

 

58 receptions 780 yards and 8 TD's is pretty solid for a rookie on a team that had like 3or 4 diff QB's start for them last season..

[jackie hayes]

58 receptions 780 yards and 8 TD's is pretty solid for a rookie on a team that had like 3or 4 diff QB's start for them last season..

Yeah, but Az's clearly screwed with Boldin and Fitzgerald. Two 4.5 40 guys who can do nothing besides "catch the ball well" and "run routes well", pfft. How will they ever spread the field? I hope the Bears don't trade Bradley for either one of THOSE guys.

[T R U]

Yeah, but Az's clearly screwed with Boldin and Fitzgerald.  Two 4.5 40 guys who can do nothing besides "catch the ball well" and "run routes well", pfft.  How will they ever spread the field?  I hope the Bears don't trade Bradley for either one of THOSE guys.

 

I dunno man, Boldin looked outstanding in his rookie PRO BOWL season... Ide give them another year, both healthy, before passing judgement on them being a failing combo..

[ZoomSlowik]

Yeah, I did forget about Fitzgerald, my bad. Those other guys probably wouldn't have shot up the draft board anywhere near as much had Williams been there. Many of the later drafts didn't even have Williams in them because of his uncertain situation, the ones that did had him at #3 at the position and going at least 5 picks ahead of the other two. The latest I saw Mike going was somewhere in the 14-17, and a lot of that was because of rumors that he was even slower than he ran and that he had a questionable work ethic. Neither of those were issues this year.

 

I guess we just have to disagree. I'd much rather have a Jones/Peterson/Barber combo at RB with Muhammad/Williams/Berrian as our top 3 WR's than Jones/Benson/Peterson with Muhammad/Bradley/Berrian or Gage combo (actually we could have still taken Bradley too, Barber went in the 4th). Bradley wasn't even an impact player on his college team, so I'd be surprised if he made an impact on the Bears right away. I'd have really liked to see more at that position. I also think I have more confidence in Thomas Jones and our running game in general than you and others have. The guy isn't even a our starter right now, that seems like an iffy number 4 to me, which is why I didn't like their draft as much as others (for the record, I think Williams was a bad pick for Detroit as well for the same reason).