Bears Draft Grade

[YASNY]

Rodgers is no better than Orton in my opinion. Both of them will be sitting on the sidelines learning for at least 2 years. The only difference is the Packers have to pay first round money and take a huge salary cap hit while he is sitting as a back up to Brett Favre. Our first round pick will be running through their swiss cheese defense.

 

Williams is a very strange pick. Why would the sign Pollard in the offseason to go along with Roy Williams and Charles Rogers only to use a high first round pick on a slot receiver? He is not Randy Moss. He is not someone that you will bring in with Chris Carter and Jake Reed and just send him deep for home runs. Silly pick if you ask me.

 

Value? HOW?

 

I understand what you are a saying, that they got value because they fell further than they should have. However, if they don't fit and fill their needs how does it add to THEIR value? Their respective teams are really no better off today as they were before the draft.

 

You answered your own "HOW" question. That's all I was saying. The Packers do NEED a QB to train to be BF's replacement. It's not a bad pick because he won't play this year. How many Rothlisbergers (sp?) are there?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(YASNY @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:16 PM)

You answered your own "HOW" question.  That's all I was saying.  The Packers do NEED a QB to train to be BF's replacement.  It's not a bad pick because he won't play this year.  How many Rothlisbergers (sp?) are there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But are they any better? He adds no value to their franchise at the current time. He will cost a lot of money while sitting on the bench doing nothing and he is not even a sure thing to be a good QB. I think they dropped the ball there and could have used defense.

[T R U]

Rodgers is no better than Orton in my opinion. Both of them will be sitting on the sidelines learning for at least 2 years. The only difference is the Packers have to pay first round money and take a huge salary cap hit while he is sitting as a back up to Brett Favre. Our first round pick will be running through their swiss cheese defense.

 

Williams is a very strange pick. Why would the sign Pollard in the offseason to go along with Roy Williams and Charles Rogers only to use a high first round pick on a slot receiver? He is not Randy Moss. He is not someone that you will bring in with Chris Carter and Jake Reed and just send him deep for home runs. Silly pick if you ask me.

 

Value? HOW?

 

I understand what you are a saying, that they got value because they fell further than they should have. However, if they don't fit and fill their needs how does it add to THEIR value? Their respective teams are really no better off today as they were before the draft.

 

Rodgers is way better than Orton.. Rodgers has very sound mechanics and is mobile and has a gun for an arm.. Now he gets to learn behind Brett Favre, there is no way GB could pass that pick up

 

I give the Bears a C because I thought there were better WR's available at their 2nd round pick than Bradley.. Benson was a huge pick up for them and will immediatley help the team..

 

They had a solid draft, C seems fair to me

[MurcieOne]

kyle orton = Tom Brady

 

Book that s***.

 

The only thing is... he wont start for another 7 or 8 years. After Rex Retires with 4 Rings and 3 offensive MVP's..... and Im his sidekick, and we fight crime at night as a superhero duo.............yeah.

[YASNY]

But are they any better? He adds no value to their franchise at the current time. He will cost a lot of money while sitting on the bench doing nothing and he is not even a sure thing to be a good QB. I think they dropped the ball there and could have used defense.

 

That's not the point I'm arguing. He's a value pick for a team that needs an understudy QB. He won't help the team this year. That's a given.

[AddisonStSox]

That's not the point I'm arguing.  He's a value pick for a team that needs an understudy QB.  He won't help the team this year.  That's a given.

 

He most certainly is a value pick.

[T R U]

But are they any better? He adds no value to their franchise at the current time. He will cost a lot of money while sitting on the bench doing nothing and he is not even a sure thing to be a good QB. I think they dropped the ball there and could have used defense.

 

a 4th round pick wont be burning a hole in the Bears wallet.. Plus now he gets to sit back learn the offense and take snaps in practice, get some valuable NFL experiance..

 

Orton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other crap backing up in Chicago in recent history

Edited April 25, 2005 by T R U

[YASNY]

He most certainly is a value pick.

 

Thank you. That's all I was trying to say.

[ChWRoCk2]

f, they didnt need benson when they have thomas jones, mark bradley, who the hell is that, and he wont win a job over any of the wrs, they needed an offensive linemen at the least did they get it no.

 

Go Packers

Edited April 25, 2005 by chi-guy2

[GoodAsGould]

Right now they are sitting at a B because if Benson can be good, than it will all work out, but to get an A here would be my draft.

 

1st: Mike Williams

2nd: J.J. Arrington

trade up to get a 3rd and take Hawthorne OLB...

4th if still have it, Adrian McPherson

 

 

That would give us 3 of our biggest needs in a LB, WR, and RB.

 

In a perfect world it would look like this

 

49ers take Rodgers, Miami Smith, and Cleveland Ronnie Brown

Bears trade their pick to Washingtons for their 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder.

 

1st: Mike Williams

2nd: Cedric Benson

3rd: the kicker

3rd: Hawthorne.

[ChWRoCk2]

Right now they are sitting at a B because if Benson can be good, than  it will all work out, but to get an A here would be my draft.

 

1st: Mike Williams

2nd: J.J. Arrington

trade up to get a 3rd and take Hawthorne OLB...

4th if still have it, Adrian McPherson

That would give us 3 of our biggest needs in a LB, WR, and RB.

 

In a perfect world it would look like this

 

49ers take Rodgers, Miami Smith, and Cleveland Ronnie Brown

Bears trade their pick to Washingtons for their 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder.

 

1st: Mike Williams

2nd: Cedric Benson

3rd: the kicker

3rd: Hawthorne.

all in all what your trying to say is that their qb still sucks, and their wrs still suck

[WHarris1]

No, their WRs and QB dont suck.

[AnthraxFan93]

1st - We have an RB that fit the old offensive system, not the new one. Thomas Jones has never had a complete season and is often injured. Cedric Benson is a proven work load RB that is tough to bring down and some scouts say he is the best goal line back that they have ever seen. Definately not a wasted pick

 

2nd - I have seen him going in the third, but not 4th or 5th round. Bears didn't have a third.

 

4th - I agree, although it is not their best pick. Best value? Yes, perhaps.

 

5th - who cares, it is worth the risk, it is a 5th rounder

 

6th and 7th are guys with speed who will make an immediate impact on special teams and could eventually turn into quality safeties.

 

I don't see how Det or GB got stronger. Det didn't do much of anything if you ask me. Mike Williams doesn't even fit there. They just signed Marcus Pollard and already have Charles Rogers and Roy Williams. They spend a first round pick on a slot receiver? I find that kind of strange and a waste of a pick. He is not Randy Moss.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1st- I can't wait for the new version of the John Schoop Offense..Run 3 yards fall down Punt.. Again the bears had a chance to become a elite force in the NFL, but they gave up on a good Offense system too soon. Now we are stuck with Benson who is not needed.

 

2nd- What I was able to read on this kid, he is a project.. Lot of Ups to him but, in that regards not going to help us anything soon.

 

4th- Value steal, I think we can all agree on this pick

 

5th- I think I was wrong about this kid, he will make the team and pretty much should take over the Number 2 WR coming out of camp.

 

6-7th.. Like stated back-ups who could get better...

 

As Far as the rest of the NFC North Getting Stronger..

 

Funny you failed to Mention Minny, who is now the team to beat in the NFC North

GB- They now have a QB who can succed Farve, and will do a nice job in doing so as well.. The draft is more of How players help your team now and in the furture..GB basiclly got a QB to do that.

 

DET.. Yyour telling me that having a good RB and 3 good WR and a TE on the field teams are going to be able to stop that? Hello Indy Offense..

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:45 PM)

Rodgers is way better than Orton.. Rodgers has very sound mechanics and is mobile and has a gun for an arm.. Now he gets to learn behind Brett Favre, there is no way GB could pass that pick up

 

I give the Bears a C because I thought there were better WR's available at their 2nd round pick than Bradley.. Benson was a huge pick up for them and will immediatley help the team..

 

They had a solid draft, C seems fair to me

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HA HA! That is sooooo funny. You just mentioned the 2 biggest knocks on Rodgers. They were saying that his mechanics were not that great and he holds the ball too high becuase that is how Tedford teaches his QBs. Rodgers does not have a gun for an arm and Orton's is much better.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 05:27 PM)

a 4th round pick wont be burning a hole in the Bears wallet.. Plus now he gets to sit back learn the offense and take snaps in practice, get some valuable NFL experiance..

 

Orton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other crap backing up in Chicago in recent history

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly my point. Thank you T R U!

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 07:32 PM)

1st- I can't wait for the new version of the John Schoop Offense..Run 3 yards fall down Punt.. Again the bears had a chance to become a elite force in the NFL, but they gave up on a good Offense system too soon. Now we are stuck with Benson who is not needed.

 

2nd- What I was able to read on this kid, he is a project.. Lot of Ups to him but, in that regards not going to help us anything soon.

 

4th- Value steal, I think we can all agree on this pick

 

5th- I think I was wrong about this kid, he will make the team and pretty much should take over the Number 2 WR coming out of camp.

 

6-7th.. Like stated back-ups who could get better...

 

As Far as the rest of the NFC North Getting Stronger..

 

Funny you failed to Mention Minny, who is now the team to beat in the NFC North

GB- They now have a QB who can succed Farve, and will do a nice job in doing so as well.. The draft is more of How players help your team now and in the furture..GB basiclly got a QB to do that.

 

DET.. Yyour telling me that having a good RB and 3 good WR and a TE on the field teams are going to be able to stop that? Hello Indy Offense..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1- John Shoop? Do you remember how good the offense was under Ron Turner when he was here? He made Erik Kramer, Jeff Graham, Curtis Conway, and Rashaan Salaam all look great. Go look up some of the stats of the offenses when he was here. I think you will be eating those words youngster.

 

2 - then who would? 2nd rounders are not usually starters right away. The Bears could still use him to stretch the field, which is more than Mike Williams would have done for us.

 

 

I failed to Mention Minny because they are the only team that did get stronger. However, this was based on FAs and the draft. THey did an excellent job.

 

GB- The definately have the QB to succeed Favre, but for 2 years they will be dedicating so much money to the QB position that they will be unable to sign FAs that they desperately need. 1st round QBs command a lot of money. GB did not address anything on the defensive side of the ball, which will hurt them dramatically. The draft is definately about how players help your team now and in the furture, which is why the Bears did a great job in the draft. GB could have waited until the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round to draft a similar QB. I think Frye or Orton will turn out just as good or better than Rodgers. Campbell was a better pick than Rodgers.

 

DET - filled zero needs. They did not need another young WR. They have Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and Marcus Pollard. Mike Williams is not as fast and does not as good a route runner as Stokely, Harrison, Wayne, or for that matter Dallas Clark. And he blocks like s*** for a big guy. Huge mistake with this pick. To compare Detroit's offense with Indy's is a joke. It took Wayne 3 years to learn how to run routes correctly. I highly doubt Mike Williams will be anything more than a slot receiver and to spend a first round draft pick on a slot receiver is really ridiculous. Especially when you dont need him. Defense was the way Detroit should have went. Stupid move.

Edited April 25, 2005 by southsideirish

[CWSGuy406]

all in all what your trying to say is that their qb still sucks, and their wrs still suck

 

Green Bay sucks and is on the decline.

 

Can't wait for the Bears defense to dominate Green Bay. Just like last year at Lambeau...

[witesoxfan]

f, they didnt need benson when they have thomas jones, mark bradley, who the hell is that, and he wont win a job over any of the wrs, they needed an offensive linemen at the least did they get it no.

 

Go Packers

 

The Packers didn't need Rodgers, because they very easily could have taken Frye in the 2nd or someone like Orton or Orlovsky later on.

 

And they SURE as hell didn't need ANOTHER WR when their defense is as bad as it is. That is brilliant, using your 2nd round pick, which you should absolutely use on a need unless someone like Mark Clayton fell to them, on another WR for offense when your offense will be good enough

 

Packers are a potential last place team in that division, even with Favre as the QB, because their defense is not good...unlike Chicago and Minnesota.

 

You lose

[T R U]

The Packers didn't need Rodgers, because they very easily could have taken Frye in the 2nd or someone like Orton or Orlovsky later on.

 

And they SURE as hell didn't need ANOTHER WR when their defense is as bad as it is.  That is brilliant, using your 2nd round pick, which you should absolutely use on a need unless someone like Mark Clayton fell to them, on another WR for offense when your offense will be good enough

 

Packers are a potential last place team in that division, even with Favre as the QB, because their defense is not good...unlike Chicago and Minnesota. 

 

You lose

 

Wrong... there is no way the Packers could pass up Aaron Rodgers

 

and irish... Rodgers has very good mechanics, holding the ball a little high is not something that cant be fixed.. and dude, he has a gun.. I dont get where you can say that he doesnt..

[witesoxfan]

Wrong... there is no way the Packers could pass up Aaron Rodgers

 

 

They needed a future QB to groom. They did not NEED Rodgers. That can be any QB they feel works. Frye, Orlovsky, Orton, McPherson are all guys that could have been groomed to be the next starting QB in Green Bay. Taking him was just because of the value.

 

There was a way that Green Bay could have passed on Rodgers. I'm not saying passing on him would have been the right move.

[AnthraxFan93]

1- John Shoop? Do you remember how good the offense was under Ron Turner when he was here? He made Erik Kramer, Jeff Graham, Curtis Conway, and Rashaan Salaam all look great. Go look up some of the stats of the offenses when he was here. I think you will be eating those words youngster.

 

2 - then who would? 2nd rounders are not usually starters right away. The Bears could still use him to stretch the field, which is more than Mike Williams would have done for us.

I failed to Mention Minny because they are the only team that did get stronger. However, this was based on FAs and the draft. THey did an excellent job.

 

GB- The definately have the QB to succeed Favre, but for 2 years they will be dedicating so much money to the QB position that they will be unable to sign FAs that they desperately need. 1st round QBs command a lot of money. GB did not address anything on the defensive side of the ball, which will hurt them dramatically. The draft is definately about how players help your team now and in the furture, which is why the Bears did a great job in the draft. GB could have waited until the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round to draft a similar QB. I think Frye or Orton will turn out just as good or better than Rodgers. Campbell was a better pick than Rodgers.

 

DET -  filled zero needs. They did not need another young WR. They have Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and Marcus Pollard. Mike Williams is not as fast and does not as good a route runner as Stokely, Harrison, Wayne, or for that matter Dallas Clark. And he blocks like s*** for a big guy. Huge mistake with this pick. To compare Detroit's offense with Indy's is a joke. It took Wayne 3 years to learn how to run routes correctly. I highly doubt Mike Williams will be anything more than a slot receiver and to spend a first round draft pick on a slot receiver is really ridiculous. Especially when you dont need him. Defense was the way Detroit should have went.  Stupid move.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

1- I think you should be the one looking up the stats.. Ronny Shoop Had 1good year as OC in 95.. 93(24/28),94(24/28) and 96(26/30) his offenses ranked near the bottom of the NFL in ponts scored. So a failed OC and Failed College HC, has now come back to fail yet again at the OC postion.

 

As Stated before, The bears are going backwards with offense, they had a great system in place that take more than 1 training camp to learn.. You also need the horses there as well, something that was not there once the line and QB went down.

 

GB..They realized that there was no-one in the draft that could help them out right now, why not take a QB let him sit under one of the best ever to play the game and learn. Only helps them down the line smart move. If you were GB who would you have choosen?

 

DET.. we are just going to have to agree that I am right! J/K.. I agree to disagree, I think they did a good job with MW, You keep mentioning this Rodgers kid.. How much NFL experience does he have?..Either way you look at it, this was a wise pick by DET. You say def, but if you look at the stats they were at the bottom of the NFL in offense 24/32 points scored.. they needed help on both sides of the ball.

[T R U]

They needed a future QB to groom.  They did not NEED Rodgers.  That can be any QB they feel works.  Frye, Orlovsky, Orton, McPherson are all guys that could have been groomed to be the next starting QB in Green Bay.  Taking him was just because of the value.

 

There was a way that Green Bay could have passed on Rodgers.  I'm not saying passing on him would have been the right move.

 

All the way leading up to like the last week before the draft Rodgers was projected to go #1.. When Rodgers falls all the way to 24 right to a team that NEEDS a QB for the future (and when I say future that means next year, not 2-3 years down the road so they can "develope") You have no choice but to take them..

 

Green Bay made the right move, there is no arguing that.. You dont let a player like that slide past you especially when he fell all the way to your pick..

 

They didnt need a 5th round project like McPherson or those other guys you named that have a greater chance to fail as opposed to succeed. The closest one you named would be Frye, and I still would rather take Rodgers than Frye..

 

I dont agree GB had a good draft at all, but the pick of Rodgers was the best move they made all day, and the right move..

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(T R U @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 09:09 PM)

Wrong... there is no way the Packers could pass up Aaron Rodgers

 

and irish... Rodgers has very good mechanics, holding the ball a little high is not something that cant be fixed.. and dude, he has a gun.. I dont get where you can say that he doesnt..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

His mechanics are one of the things scouts did not like about Rodgers. They even pointed it out in the draft.

 

He was not asked to throw the ball deep while in college all that often and when he did he was not very accurate. How you can say he does have a gun is beyond me. Smith, Orton, Campbell, and McPherson all have better arms than Rodgers. GB could have had any of them but Smith. Since he any of the QBs they were going to take in the draft were going to end up sitting for 2 years they should have passed and grabbed one later. Any of these QBs have the potential to be as good or better than Rodgers. As long as he would be sitting on the bench and learning and will be a project anyway, then why not wait?

 

He also has something else going against him. He is a Tedford coached QB. Besides Carr, has there been a QB that has half way proven himself in the NFL?

 

Scouting report:

 

"There isn't a lot we can say about Rodgers definitively except he throws a nice short pass. But nice short passes are not worth $19 million.

 

His accuracy is a little spotty on those rare occasions when he attempts the difficult throw. Rodgers is a good caretaker quarterback who doesn't often make the Homer Simpson play -- dohhh! He's tough enough, has enough arm strength and enough mobility. But he isn't spectacular in any area. His instincts and ability to gauge pressure and see the field are questionable.

 

Rodgers can be a winning NFL quarterback in the right situation, but there is not enough evidence to proclaim him a franchise player. If he were graded strictly on ability and his position were not a factor, he'd be considered a second-round talent."

 

Stupid pick if you ask me. I would have rather had Campbell, Orton, Frye, or McPherson. Especially since they he will be sitting on the bench learning for the next year or two anyway.

[T R U]

I dont get how anyone can knock the Lions pick...

 

Yes, it was mind boggling at first... but now they have possibly the most dangerous line up of WR's in the league..

 

The fact that they will have Mike Williams, Roy Williams, and Charles Rogers lined up wide with Kevin Jones in the backfield is going to help their offense immensly. If Joey Harrington cant succeed with these weapons he needs to be out of a job..

 

Detroit is forming one hell of an offense, and their defense should improve too.. Shaun Cody was a solid pick

[T R U]

His mechanics are one of the things scouts did not like about Rodgers. They even pointed it out in the draft.

 

He was not asked to throw the ball deep while in college all that often and when he did he was not very accurate. How you can say he does have a gun is beyond me. Smith, Orton, Campbell, and McPherson all have better arms than Rodgers. GB could have had any of them but Smith. Since he any of the QBs they were going to take in the draft were going to end up sitting for 2 years they should have passed and grabbed one later. Any of these QBs have the potential to be as good or better than Rodgers. As long as he would be sitting on the bench and learning  and will be a project anyway, then why not wait?

 

He also has something else going against him. He is a Tedford coached QB. Besides Carr, has there been a QB that has half way proven himself in the NFL?

 

Scouting report:

 

"There isn't a lot we can say about Rodgers definitively except he throws a nice short pass. But nice short passes are not worth $19 million.

 

His accuracy is a little spotty on those rare occasions when he attempts the difficult throw. Rodgers is a good caretaker quarterback who doesn't often make the Homer Simpson play -- dohhh! He's tough enough, has enough arm strength and enough mobility. But he isn't spectacular in any area. His instincts and ability to gauge pressure and see the field are questionable.

 

Rodgers can be a winning NFL quarterback in the right situation, but there is not enough evidence to proclaim him a franchise player. If he were graded strictly on ability and his position were not a factor, he'd be considered a second-round talent."

 

Stupid pick if you ask me. I would have rather had Campbell, Orton, Frye, or McPherson. Especially since they he will be sitting on the bench learning for the next year or two anyway.

 

 

Aaron Rodgers scouting report

 

Strengths: Picture perfect mechanics that are absolutely textbook...Amazing accuracy and can thread the needle...Very good arm strength and can make all the throws...Good touch and timing...Top intangibles and leadership qualities...Good work ethic and drive to be the best...Decent mobility and good speed and can throw on the run...Excellent pocket presence...Still has a lot of potential and upside.

 

Weaknesses: Has only average size...Needs to continue to add weight and get stronger...Had surgery on his knee before the 2004 season so durability might be a concern...Has only average athletic ability...Doesn't have a ton of experience and is still learning.

 

CBSSportsline take..

 

Green Bay Packers

 

Best pick: At some point, they had to get the replacement for Brett Favre. Getting Aaron Rodgers late in the first round is a big-time pick.

 

More from CBS Sportsline..

 

ANALYSIS

 

Positives: Rodgers is a well-built athlete with a medium to long stride and good foot quickness. … Also has displayed good athletic ability and change of direction agility for the position. … Has a good setup and a quick release to go along with very good arm strength. … Rarely will he make questionable decisions. … Has no trouble reading defenses and will not force the ball into traffic (see low interception percentage). … Has shown flashes of great play-making ability due to his good athleticism and very good arm strength. … He's a developing prospect with all the physical tools, displaying excellent quickness in his delivery and release. … Very effective at generating the quickness and snap on the forward motion of his release to easily loft the ball into his target's waiting hands. … His feet are very quick, but it's his long ball accuracy and touch that stand out, taking enough off his long throws to feather the ball to receivers. … While Rodgers is not the biggest quarterback you will find, he does have a loose arm, tight circle and knows how to step into his throws. … The thing you notice on film is his ability to flash a good pass set, drift and soft touch, showing the vision and awareness to slide and move in and out of the pocket with ease. … Displays a smooth, accurate long ball and can run the quarterback draw like a tailback, making him a definite running threat.

 

Negatives: Stays on his primary receivers too long at times, but when he can't locate and hit secondary receivers, he will take off and run with the ball. … Shows good poise, especially when faced with pressure, but must stand in the pocket longer to wait for the play to develop.

Edited April 25, 2005 by T R U