AAP: Jerry Owens

[CWSGuy406]

I'll put some stuff up tomorrow. My other AAP is injured or at extended Spring Training; Donny Luc.

[BHAMBARONS]

CWS Here is a good Owens Pic

 

 

[CWSGuy406]

That's awesome.

 

I've been lazy, so far, I'll try to post a line of what he's been doing at Birmy ASAP.

[CWSGuy406]

Jerry Owens: Individual Stats (Batting)

Team From To G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 

Birmingham Barons 04/07 05/27 41 171 30 53 7 2 0 15 64 15 26 14 3 .366 .374 .310 bookmark player

[BHAMBARONS]

Owens @ Rickwood

 

 

 

[CWSGuy406]

Owens is in Charlotte, playing LF/CF for the Knights.

 

He's off to a slow start, putting up a .182/.250/.182 line, but only 11 ABs.

 

Pretty big year for Owens... if he has a good year, the Sox could trade Podsednik and won't be forced to resign him.

[NorthSideSox72]

A lot of people on this site seem pretty down on Owens, but his numbers, and the few times I saw him play, seem to say otherwise. I think there is a lot of potential there.

 

What do people think about him? Is he a possible Pods replacement in 2007, if Pods falters and we don't replace him with MLB talent? If not, is Owens a solution for somewhere in the OF in 2008?

[NorthSideSox72]

Further question - what do we know about Owens' defense? I saw him play a game in Tucson last spring, and watched a couple games this year he played in, and he seemed pretty solid out there. How would people describe his defensive skills?

[Chisoxfn]

Further question - what do we know about Owens' defense? I saw him play a game in Tucson last spring, and watched a couple games this year he played in, and he seemed pretty solid out there. How would people describe his defensive skills?

There is a reason this guy is pretty much a left fielder. Basically think of Pods out in the field. Jerry Owens is not a good defensively outfielder (That said I'm not saying he's terrible out in LF like Pods is, but nothing special).

 

In general the only thing that really helps Owens is that he's fast and considered a good athlete. However, bottom line this guy is probably super over-rated by many Sox fans and quite possibly under-rated by others (myself included).

[danman31]

There is a reason this guy is pretty much a left fielder. Basically think of Pods out in the field. Jerry Owens is not a good defensively outfielder (That said I'm not saying he's terrible out in LF like Pods is, but nothing special).

 

In general the only thing that really helps Owens is that he's fast and considered a good athlete. However, bottom line this guy is probably super over-rated by many Sox fans and quite possibly under-rated by others (myself included).

Yeah, I never understood the uber love for him that many have. He had a poor year at Charlotte last year, but he does draw walks at a decent rate. I wouldn't consider this guy a future MLB starter.

[maggsmaggs]

Yeah, I never understood the uber love for him that many have. He had a poor year at Charlotte last year, but he does draw walks at a decent rate. I wouldn't consider this guy a future MLB starter.

I think he would have better numbers as a starter this year than Podsednik. Plus, he would steal bases at a better percetage and play better defense (even if its only a marginal difference.) I completely agree that he is not a starter, but nor is Pods. Ideally, he is the 4th outfielder of the future.

[danman31]

I think he would have better numbers as a starter this year than Podsednik. Plus, he would steal bases at a better percetage and play better defense (even if its only a marginal difference.) I completely agree that he is not a starter, but nor is Pods. Ideally, he is the 4th outfielder of the future.

Minor league steals don't translate at all to the bigs. Owens hit .262 in AAA...that's bad. Pods hit .261 in the bigs. Explain to me how Owens is going to do better than Pods?

[NorthSideSox72]

Minor league steals don't translate at all to the bigs. Owens hit .262 in AAA...that's bad. Pods hit .261 in the bigs. Explain to me how Owens is going to do better than Pods?

Batting average doesn't necessarily translate either.

 

Owens is a phenomenal athlete. He also seems to be picking up some skills. His arm looked pretty good in ST, his steal rate has improved (yes, in the minors), etc. I can't say much on his hitting though, other than the .262 number was a big drop for him and he moved up awfully fast. I'd bet, if he is at AAA in 2007, he pushes .300.

[Chisoxfn]

Phenomenal athlete is what he is not. If Owens was a phenomenal athlete he'd be one of those 5 tool players and he would have been playing in the major leagues already.

 

He's a good athlete in certain area's (weak arm and is not near as fast as some of you guys make him out to be...Willie Harris was fast and was three times the ball player Owens was and we saw what he did at the major league level).

[NorthSideSox72]

Phenomenal athlete is what he is not. If Owens was a phenomenal athlete he'd be one of those 5 tool players and he would have been playing in the major leagues already.

 

He's a good athlete in certain area's (weak arm and is not near as fast as some of you guys make him out to be...Willie Harris was fast and was three times the ball player Owens was and we saw what he did at the major league level).

When I think "athlete", that does not necessarily mean "skilled". Michael Jordan was a phenomenal athlete who sucked, for the most part, at baseball. But he was SUCH a phenomenal athlete that even without the individual skills he needed, he sort of got by in AA baseball.

 

My point is NOT that Jerry Owens is anything near MJ in any way, shape or form. Its that athleticism can sometimes help to overcome specific skill deficiences. Owens seems to be a guy who they are hoping for exactly that. He has a lot of raw talent that may nor may not translate to the skills he needs, but that talent is strong enough that it might work (and, looking at his minor league career thus far, it is in fact working to some extent).

[Chisoxfn]

When I think "athlete", that does not necessarily mean "skilled". Michael Jordan was a phenomenal athlete who sucked, for the most part, at baseball. But he was SUCH a phenomenal athlete that even without the individual skills he needed, he sort of got by in AA baseball.

 

My point is NOT that Jerry Owens is anything near MJ in any way, shape or form. Its that athleticism can sometimes help to overcome specific skill deficiences. Owens seems to be a guy who they are hoping for exactly that. He has a lot of raw talent that may nor may not translate to the skills he needs, but that talent is strong enough that it might work (and, looking at his minor league career thus far, it is in fact working to some extent).

The thing is, Jordan was not a good athlete baseball wise. Baseball athletism is different than other sports. It factors in having a rocket arm (bball players don't need that), great speed, tremendous power (bball players don't need this and this doesn't necessarily coincide with being strong, just look at Soriano who I'm sure is strong, but not near as strong as other guys, but he has tremendous power due to the swing speed and flat out mechanics of his swing).

 

Jerry Owens has a piss poor arm, absolutely zero power. Basically he has good speed. Thats not what I call being an athlete in baseball. He is getting by because he's a decent player in the minor leagues (and there are zillions of those guys at every level and very few will ever play in the majors). The guy is absolutely nothing special and the only way for him to be special is if he ends up developing an absolutely beautiful swing and hitting for a high average.

 

Now, Vladdy Guerro in the minors is what I'd call an athlete. Or Felix Pie (even though he's a bit over-rated). You are talking about guys whose stats may not stand out as they are getting by on athletism, but they have every single tool in the books (and you just have to hope that they will develop the baseball skills to put those tools to full use).

 

Jerry Owens has one tool and one tool players rarely have success at the major league level (sometimes if your that good defensively at a position where defense is a major need...SS/C/CF or if you can hit 50 HR's, you will find a way to start or get a significant role playing job but otherwise you are pretty much screwed).

 

Most teams have little desire for a fast backup outfielder that can't play any defense or hit (especially when his base running abilities are average at best which negatively impact his one tool).

 

I hate to be overly harsh NS, but I think you are completely off on Owens and he's probably the one player I target more than anyone because I see too many people think he has this amazing skill set when in reality it couldn't be further from the truth (it was like people thinking highly of a kid named Miller because BA said he threw easy heat...turns out BA was full of crap and the guy topped out at 88-90 and eventually faded away).

[danman31]

[aboz56]

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Jason's assesment of Owens.

 

To me this guy might be the most overrated prospect we have by many fans. He's nothing better than a 4th outfielder.

[NorthSideSox72]

The thing is, Jordan was not a good athlete baseball wise. Baseball athletism is different than other sports. It factors in having a rocket arm (bball players don't need that), great speed, tremendous power (bball players don't need this and this doesn't necessarily coincide with being strong, just look at Soriano who I'm sure is strong, but not near as strong as other guys, but he has tremendous power due to the swing speed and flat out mechanics of his swing).

 

Jerry Owens has a piss poor arm, absolutely zero power. Basically he has good speed. Thats not what I call being an athlete in baseball. He is getting by because he's a decent player in the minor leagues (and there are zillions of those guys at every level and very few will ever play in the majors). The guy is absolutely nothing special and the only way for him to be special is if he ends up developing an absolutely beautiful swing and hitting for a high average.

 

Now, Vladdy Guerro in the minors is what I'd call an athlete. Or Felix Pie (even though he's a bit over-rated). You are talking about guys whose stats may not stand out as they are getting by on athletism, but they have every single tool in the books (and you just have to hope that they will develop the baseball skills to put those tools to full use).

 

Jerry Owens has one tool and one tool players rarely have success at the major league level (sometimes if your that good defensively at a position where defense is a major need...SS/C/CF or if you can hit 50 HR's, you will find a way to start or get a significant role playing job but otherwise you are pretty much screwed).

 

Most teams have little desire for a fast backup outfielder that can't play any defense or hit (especially when his base running abilities are average at best which negatively impact his one tool).

 

I hate to be overly harsh NS, but I think you are completely off on Owens and he's probably the one player I target more than anyone because I see too many people think he has this amazing skill set when in reality it couldn't be further from the truth (it was like people thinking highly of a kid named Miller because BA said he threw easy heat...turns out BA was full of crap and the guy topped out at 88-90 and eventually faded away).

 

Two things.

 

One, you may be very right about Owens. I have a good feeling, but I am not the expert that you or others are on baseball. So we'll see. But I have no argument with any of the things you say about Owens' SKILLS. You are much more likely to be right than I am.

 

That brings me to point two. I have a different opinion of the term "athlete" than you do. Let me explain. MJ is a phenomenal athlete, and it has zero to do with baseball, basketball or any other SINGLE sport or activity. Being a great athlete means he is fast, has quick reflexes, is strong, and has a head for spatial relations and other sports-related mental skills - all at an extremely high level. That is what makes a great athlete. Those people can walk into most or all sports, and with little or no training, perform at a decent level (though maybe not dominant). With practice and more practice, and maybe some coaching, they can then become stars at the sport of their choice.

 

What you are talking about when you refer to throwing hard/far, or hitting, or getting jumps on fly balls... those are individual SKILLS. Owens obviously lacks in some of those skills. But, if you look at his history even before the minors, with a very small amount of experience, he has already moved up very fast. This despite being younger and less experienced than his peers. That, to me, indicates some combination of athleticism and hard work. Now, the athleticism will only carry him so far - he needs to hone specific skills (built on athletic talent) to compete at the MLB level. Will he, or can he? Hard to say.

 

Do you see what I mean? MJ is a superb athlete regardless of sport. Owens seems to be a very good athlete as well. MJ didn't do well in his short baseball experiment, though he MAY have excelled with time. Owens? Not as great an athlete, but still a great one, and he may be no better than a minor leaguer. But that doesn't dismiss his talent.

 

You and I just see athleticism and skills differently.

[CWSGuy406]

What you are talking about when you refer to throwing hard/far, or hitting, or getting jumps on fly balls... those are individual SKILLS. Owens obviously lacks in some of those skills. But, if you look at his history even before the minors, with a very small amount of experience, he has already moved up very fast. This despite being younger and less experienced than his peers. That, to me, indicates some combination of athleticism and hard work. Now, the athleticism will only carry him so far - he needs to hone specific skills (built on athletic talent) to compete at the MLB level. Will he, or can he? Hard to say.

 

He hasn't been younger than his peers. In 'prospect' terms, he's been older than his peers. Before the Sox even break for Spring Training in 2007, Owens will already be 26 years old. A 26 year old who hasn't even mastered AAA yet is in no way a prospect.

 

You also have to look at ceilings. If EVERYTHING broke right for Owens, what type of player do you think he could be? He has absolutely no power (career .368 minor league SLG%), and I doubt he's ever going to gain any power. He can't play CF on a daily basis, so he's designated to a corner OF spot -- the lack of power is now magnified. If everything broke right, I'm thinking he could be a Scott Podsednik (not counting 2003, as Owens will never touch a .400 slugging percentage in any significant amount of ABs) type player, ie .290/.350/.350. If that's your ceiling, you aren't much of a prospect.

 

More likely, you're probably looking at an okay fourth OFer, but not somebody you want EVER starting for you.

 

It's funny... I was the one who adopted Jerry Owens in the AAP. Heh...

[NorthSideSox72]

He hasn't been younger than his peers. In 'prospect' terms, he's been older than his peers. Before the Sox even break for Spring Training in 2007, Owens will already be 26 years old. A 26 year old who hasn't even mastered AAA yet is in no way a prospect.

 

You also have to look at ceilings. If EVERYTHING broke right for Owens, what type of player do you think he could be? He has absolutely no power (career .368 minor league SLG%), and I doubt he's ever going to gain any power. He can't play CF on a daily basis, so he's designated to a corner OF spot -- the lack of power is now magnified. If everything broke right, I'm thinking he could be a Scott Podsednik (not counting 2003, as Owens will never touch a .400 slugging percentage in any significant amount of ABs) type player, ie .290/.350/.350. If that's your ceiling, you aren't much of a prospect.

 

More likely, you're probably looking at an okay fourth OFer, but not somebody you want EVER starting for you.

 

It's funny... I was the one who adopted Jerry Owens in the AAP. Heh...

This is one of those discussion where I don't think I'll ever be able to put into the correct words what I am getting at. I give!!!!!

 

Anyway, like I said, I'll take others' word for his skills. I'll just say I think he might surprise some of you.

[danman31]

This is one of those discussion where I don't think I'll ever be able to put into the correct words what I am getting at. I give!!!!!

 

Anyway, like I said, I'll take others' word for his skills. I'll just say I think he might surprise some of you.

That's fair, I think I understand where you are coming from. He was considered raw when we got him and I think he is one of the better bets to make the majors (and stick) from our system. I just hold a grudge of sorts against the people that think he's already better than Pods when they really don't know a thing about Owens. Not that I mean to include you in that, but I have a general feeling that Owens is overrated by a lot on this board.

[Balta1701]

That's fair, I think I understand where you are coming from. He was considered raw when we got him and I think he is one of the better bets to make the majors (and stick) from our system. I just hold a grudge of sorts against the people that think he's already better than Pods when they really don't know a thing about Owens. Not that I mean to include you in that, but I have a general feeling that Owens is overrated by a lot on this board.

Think I'll chime in here...in terms of most of the categories where people make judgements about players, yeah, Owens's numbers just aren't that great. No power, not a great defender, doesn't do anything especially well except run.

 

However, I will fire back that there can be places for people like Owens on big league ballclubs if they are willing to accept their spot. In other words, a slap hitter who can do nothing else but run and put down a bunt (how's Jerry's bunting?) can be surprisingly useful for a team. You don't win championships by having a guy or two like that, but you can actually lose championships by not having a guy or two like that.

 

Owens has some issues, granted. Last year at the plate he was a real disappointment compared to his #'s at AA, and his 60% career SB %age in the minors isn't anything to write home about, but the counter is...these are fairly easy things to learn. It's not all that rough to learn how to be a slap hitter who gets on base when you have really good speed and can turn a bunch of ground balls into singles. And it's not going to be impossible for a guy to learn the technique to dramatically improve his SB %age (just look at Podsednik).

 

Owens may very well not pan out. A speed guy who hits .260 in the big leagues and doesn't take many walks is pretty useless except for his legs off the bench. The 2 big things Owens needs to learn is how to just be a slap hitter and take what the pitcher gives him (even if its' just a ground ball and a race to first), and how to steal bases and distract a pitcher effectively. But the one hopeful thing is...those are skills that people can learn if they have the speed. The difference between Juan Pierre and a 4th outfielder with speed isn't nearly as big as the difference between a Jermaine Dye and an OF prospect.

Edited January 13, 2007 by Balta1701

[santo=dorf]

Pretty big year for Owens... if he has a good year, the Sox could trade Podsednik and won't be forced to resign him.

Ironic that three years later Owens has such a bad year, Podsednik replaces him.

 

 

Lockie.