From the MLB Rule Book

[aboz56]

Crede didn't stand still. If he did, the ball wouldn't have hit him.

The ball was way inside, he didn't lean out over the plate to get hit. Or am I just being unrational here?

[IlliniKrush]

I guess we just disagree is all aboz. I think most of us hate the HBP from other teams when their guys don't move. But to intentionally move into the pitch? That's crossing the line by a ton. Regardless of situation, that should be called a ball IMO.

[T R U]

The ball was way inside, he didn't lean out over the plate to get hit.  Or am I just being unrational here?

 

Thats the dumbest f***ing rule ever.. if the pitch is inside like that you shouldnt be forced to move out of the way.. Its one thing to like lean over the plate to take a questionable pitch.. but if its inside out of the strike zone, I just hate that rule

[aboz56]

I guess we just disagree is all aboz. I think most of us hate the HBP from other teams when their guys don't move. But to intentionally move into the pitch? That's crossing the line by a ton. Regardless of situation, that should be called a ball IMO.

I could see if it was borderline, but since it was way inside and he doesn't stand close to the plate whatsoever to begin with, it was a bad call IMO.

[aboz56]

Thats the dumbest f***ing rule ever.. if the pitch is inside like that you shouldnt be forced to move out of the way.. Its one thing to like lean over the plate to take a questionable pitch.. but if its inside out of the strike zone, I just hate that rule

Exactly you shouldn't be forced.

 

If he got hit with the bases loaded, you'd all be slurping him up saying he took one for the team.

 

What bothers me is that someone thinks that Crede wanted to get hit by the pitch so he didn't have to have the pressure on him. That is the most irrational stance I've heard in a while.

[IlliniKrush]

I could see if it was borderline, but since it was way inside and he doesn't stand close to the plate whatsoever to begin with, it was a bad call IMO.

 

I see what you are saying. If crede 'let it hit him', i might agree since it was inside by a good amount. But moving into it, that's a different story.

[Rowand44]

Crede didn't stand still. If he did, the ball wouldn't have hit him.

That call was bulls***, period. It's the same situation when a batter turns his back, most of the time if they stand there they won't get hit but since they turn they get hit, same s*** here. The umps sucked dong this series, I'm sorry but they did, the sox didn't play well these last two games but regardless of that being all nicked up and having a short roster right now they win this series with the correct calls by the umps.

[HighHeat45]

Anyone think there might be suspensions

 

I wouldnt be suprised the way things are goin :rolly

[Dick Allen]

I have been watching White Sox baseball religiously since 1971, when I faked being sick as a first grader to watch Beltin Melton hit a homerun on the last day of the season to win the AL home run crown. I have definitely seen at least 95% of the games the past 18 years. This is the 3rd time I have seen this called. The other 2 times happened in the same game about 4 or 5 years ago. Rulebook wise, it was the correct call. I just wonder if Wendelstedt ever called this before, because surely it has happened many times in games in which he worked. If he has called it, I have no problem with it. If he hasn't, its a grudge call, and he should be heavily fined and/or suspended.

[T R U]

What bothers me is that someone thinks that Crede wanted to get hit by the pitch so he didn't have to have the pressure on him.  That is the most irrational stance I've heard in a while.

 

That is what really gets me too.. thats just a flat out dumb statement..

 

You know, by what your saying.. Last night Jurassic got hit in the ass, why wasnt that a ball? He could have jumped forward and it wouldnt have hit him...

[Dick Allen]

That call was bulls***, period.  It's the same situation when a batter turns his back, most of the time if they stand there they won't get hit but since they turn they get hit, same s*** here.  The umps sucked dong this series, I'm sorry but they did, the sox didn't play well these last two games but regardless of that being all nicked up and having a short roster right now they win this series with the correct calls by the umps.

But when you turn your back it is a natural reaction for getting out of the way. Its one reason why throwing behind someone almost always results in a beaning. Your natural reaction puts you on the ball's track.

[Flash Tizzle]

Crede didn't stand still. If he did, the ball wouldn't have hit him.

 

If the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if he makes no attempt to avoid being touched.

 

No, I'm suggesting this rule is rarely (if ever) enforced because it says a batter will not be awarded first base if he makes no attempt to avoid a pitch.

 

Example: Crede stands perfectly still and is hit by a pitch, but makes no attempt to avoid being touched. According to the rule which you posted, the pitch should be called a ball.

 

This is obviously NEVER enforced. Which is my point. Crede did throw his elbows into the pitch, but it was well within the batters box and obviously inside. Once again, never called against the hitter. But now it changes? I better see all umpires following this change.

[quickman]

Now, i know this is hardly ever called. But it's never called because most HBP in question come on pitches where the batter "doesn't make an attempt" to get out of the way and they usually just let it slide. This was drastically different. Not only did he not move, but the pitch wasn't going to hit him. On a really slow curveball, he started his swing, stopped, and dropped his elbow in a blatant attempt to get hit by the pitch.

 

As an umpire (and i have been one for 4 years), you have to call that, period. Otherwise you almost can't call anything if a guy ever gets hit by a ball.

 

Umps made the right call. Flame them all you want for the rest of the series - no arguments there.

 

But this call can't be lumped in with the rest of the series due to bias.

 

 

I think your right and it was blatant.

[quickman]

whether the rule is dumb or not its still the rule, and it appears its umpire discretion to call. This one did. I hate this ump but one way he will get whats coming to him.

[HighHeat45]

This is just like a cop pulling you over for going 21 in a 20. It doesnt happen.

[aboz56]

whether the rule is dumb or not its still the rule, and it appears its umpire discretion to call. This one did. I hate this ump but one way he will get whats coming to him.

As Wilbon would say on PTI, this should be beatdown material.

[Dick Allen]

This is just like a cop pulling you over for going 21 in a 20. It doesnt happen.

Depends on how their doing with their quota. I once got a ticket for going 57 in a 55. I was coming home from college and couldn't make the court date to fight it, so I had to send my fine in.

[IlliniKrush]

This is just like a cop pulling you over for going 21 in a 20. It doesnt happen.

 

Terrible example.

[Guest JimH]

I hate this ump but one way he will get whats coming to him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just curious, how will he get what's coming to him ... the Rosemont method?

[CanOfCorn]

Doesn't the batter have the right to the ENTIRE batter's box? Why should a player be penalized for standing off the plate? What if Joe stepped toward the plate? Yes, he did lean into the pitch, but the umps need to find a consistent way to call it.

 

And yeah, why didn't the A's get a warning after 4 HBP, or 3, or 5. Nothing, and no retaliation, either. Ri-GOD DAMN-diculous.

[Flash Tizzle]

This is just like a cop pulling you over for going 21 in a 20. It doesnt happen.

 

Good example.

 

Illinois motorists are expected to follow an absolute speed limit, which explicity states the posted limit is the speed which a motorist should be following. If it were enforced properly, which it rarely is, I wouldn't drive one day without receiving a ticket.

 

But this particular MLB rule is clearly stated, as well. There's nothing which can be done. It's just unfortunate when the rarely enacted rule is finally used for our team.

Edited April 27, 2005 by Flash Tizzle

[quickman]

As Wilbon would say on PTI, this should be beatdown material.

 

 

totally agree

[Soxbadger]

Why was Everett awarded first base?

 

He turned around but did not attempt to move out of the path of the ball.

 

The problem with this rule is that it the umpire has to get into the players mind and try and figure out what his motivations were. Last night Ozuna was hit on the wrist, he made no attempt to avoid the ball, therefore it should be the same call.

 

Personally I think that unless it is a borderline pitch, ie close to a strike, that you have to award the player first base.

 

And how do you get back at this umpire?

 

Start writing to MLB, watch every game he umpires, write every time he makes a mistake. Write to newspapers, etc.

 

SB

[Guest JimH]

Why was Everett awarded first base?

 

He turned around but did not attempt to move out of the path of the ball.

 

The problem with this rule is that it the umpire has to get into the players mind and try and figure out what his motivations were. Last night Ozuna was hit on the wrist, he made no attempt to avoid the ball, therefore it should be the same call.

 

Personally I think that unless it is a borderline pitch, ie close to a strike, that you have to award the player first base.

 

And how do you get back at this umpire?

 

Start writing to MLB, watch every game he umpires, write every time he makes a mistake. Write to newspapers, etc.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are right. Actually Ozuna also kind of turned into the pitch that whacked him on the wrist. Part of it is a reflex reaction.

 

No doubt Crede stuck his elbow out but the pitch was in the batters box for chrissakes.

 

But it was a judgement call on the umpire's part, and he made it.

[Soxbadger]

Jimh,

 

Its a poorly written rule, that if applied properly would mean that most hbp's should be balls.

 

The umpire that enforced it should be fined if he does not consistently call this in the future.

 

If I were the White Sox I would tape every game that he calls, and if he does not make the same call again, notify the league.

 

SB