MinnesotaSoxFan Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Free speech battle brewing over students' anatomical buttons WINONA, Minn. - High school students here are being admonished for wearing buttons inspired by the sometimes raunchy off-Broadway hit "The Vagina Monologues" and have been threatened with expulsion if they wear risque T-shirts inspired by the show. The American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota is offering to help students fight any consequences in what's become a battle between free speech and school conduct policies. The trouble started last month when student Carrie Rethlefsen saw Eve Ensler's play about female sexuality and sexual violence against women, which led the teen and fellow student Emily Nixon, 17, to start wearing "I (heart) My Vagina" buttons. Despite the threats of serious punishment, Rethlefsen has continued to wear her button to raise awareness about women's issues. As a show of support, more than 100 students have ordered T-shirts bearing "I (heart) My Vagina" for girls and "I Support Your Vagina" for boys. "We can't really find out what is inappropriate about it," Rethlefsen, 18, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis. "I don't think banning things like that is appropriate." Principal Nancy Wondrasch said some in school find the buttons offensive. "We support free speech," she said. "But when it does infringe on other people's rights and our school policies, then we need to take a look at that." Rethlefsen has had a string of visits with teachers, counselors, an assistant principal and the principal. A teacher has barred her from one classroom as long as she wears the button. Wondrasch said she has offered the girls a forum to talk about women's rights and violence against women by letting them set up a table at school. But that is contingent on school officials getting an advance look at information provided, Rethlefsen said. Minnesota ACLU leader Charles Samuelson said he thinks the school leaders might be curtailing the girls' free speech rights. While he agrees school officials can limit speech considered detrimental or dangerous, he points to a 1969 Supreme Court ruling. In that school First Amendment case, justices ruled administrators' fear about how others might react is not enough to squelch rights. "Free speech is a messy thing," Samuelson said. "People need to understand that opinions that they are not comfortable with, or even opinions they disagree with, need to be allowed." The girls have not been in trouble before. In fact, they're top students. Rethlefsen, for example, has been invited to a prestigious science and engineering fair for the fourth year in a row. Nixon joked that the assistant principal didn't recognize her when Nixon was called in over the button. Rethlefsen and Nixon have ordered the T-shirts - paid for with money collected from friends and supporters - and plan to wear them next week. More than 100 students are expected to wear the shirts, Nixon said. "They told us that if a single person showed up wearing them, we're going to get expelled," she said. "People are going to wear them anyway." School officials won't comment on discipline the students might face. Ann Rethlefsen, Carrie's mother, is a bit uneasy. "She's a very independent young lady," Ann Rethlefsen said, adding that she understands the school's point. "We just want to make sure she graduates." Nixon, too, admits to being nervous about what lies ahead, but she's not ready to back down. "We're not trying to offend anyone," Nixon said. "But I want people to think for themselves and come up with their own conclusions." The same play attracted controversy in February when the College of St. Scholastica in Duluth put restrictions on a student production of the show. The administration stipulated that the cast couldn't advertise the production off campus, or sell tickets, though they could accept donations. A college spokesman said at the time that the play's views of human sexuality were not in harmony with the Roman Catholic church's teachings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Well now we know Dougly loves his gina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 "...and "I Support Your Vagina" for boys..." Where can I gets me one of those? God, that's funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaSoxFan Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 "...and "I Support Your Vagina" for boys..." Where can I gets me one of those? God, that's funny! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i have her in one of my classes... i asked her for one. i'll take a pic of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(silver and black @ Apr 28, 2005 -> 10:32 PM) i'll take a pic of it Isn't that child pornography? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 03:34 AM) Isn't that child pornography? Whatever the origin, I'm pretty sure I'd get slapped if I ever showed that to the fair sex. But that's so random, it might be worth it anyway. Sign me up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaSoxFan Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Whatever the origin, I'm pretty sure I'd get slapped if I ever showed that to the fair sex. But that's so random, it might be worth it anyway. Sign me up! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 ACLU at it again? When are they going to realize that they're a joke? :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 It's not graphic, no pictures, it's a simple statement, with body part on it. I really don't see the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I have just placed an order for a few shirts myself "I Love MY Penis" "I Support my Penis' Rights" "My Penis is FUN" Jesus Chirst why can't common sense ever outweigh litigation...A high school girl doesn't need to wear a shirt that says I love my vagina. Principal...Sorry you can't wear that here. Student...Ok Parent...You f***in wore what to school?? Don't do that anymore. Student...OK Issue...OVER!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I'm sure the school would love t-shirts like "I love my ball sack" "I love my anal sphincter" "I love my asshole" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 "I love YOUR vagina" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 07:49 AM) I'm sure the school would love t-shirts like "I love my ball sack" "I love my anal sphincter" "I love my asshole" If they were in correct anatomical terminology why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(mreye @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 06:50 AM) ACLU at it again? When are they going to realize that they're a joke? :rolly The ACLU -- supporting free speech, even for its detractors since 1920. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 As Voltaire said, I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean she can't express it. The Wussification of America continues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I don't think anyone should really wear something like that, but it's their own lives I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Gleason Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 09:13 AM) The ACLU -- supporting free speech, even for its detractors since 1920. But you don't have "free speech" in any school under the college years. Plain and simple. There is no issue here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 09:13 AM) The ACLU -- supporting free speech, even for its detractors since 1920. It's indecent and doesn't need to be in our public schools. It's not an issue of free speech at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxrd5 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 God forbid that teenagers cant follw the few rules set upon them at their High Schools....woe is them. :headshake I'm pretty sure if I showed up at work with a "I love my penis" shirt I would promptly be asked to go home. The same students who wear these shirts are the first who would tell their parents if any of their teachers wore a shirt like this...and how offended they are by it. We have given way too many freedoms to high school students already...The dress code is so lax why do they need to wear a tshirt like this?!?! The parents should be ashamed they are allowing this, no child under my roof, who I support would ever be allowed to wear a shirt like that to school. How far have we fallen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxrd5 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(mreye @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 09:29 AM) It's indecent and doesn't need to be in our public schools. It's not an issue of free speech at all. Theres a matter of "rules" and then there is "common sense" ...Free speech is not a factor, nor should it be for 14-17 year old CHILDREN. Its wrong, plain and simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 09:26 AM) But you don't have "free speech" in any school under the college years. Plain and simple. There is no issue here. Tinker vs Des Moines -- "First Amendment rights, applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment, are available to teachers and students. It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." The administrators can dislike the stuff all they like personally but the only legal way that they can ban the shirts from being used is if it meets a certain criteria. "A prohibition against expression of opinion, without any evidence that the rule is necessary to avoid substantial interference with school discipline or the rights of others, is not permissible under the First and Fourteenth Amendments." (Tinker v Des Moines) Since there is no substantial interference with school discipline due to these shirts, the school really has no recourse. Sorry, I'm in the ed minor and have to memorize all sorts of stuff like this, hahaha. They love a part of their body -- it is not disruptive and does not cause a threat to school discipline, so the school technically according to the SC has no recourse legally to ban them from using the shirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 I think schools have a right to implement a dress code. And if that means establishing a rule that says "no shirts with the word vagina on it" then they should do it. This is ridiculous. But I still got nothing for love for the ACLU. Even though they did work for Rush Limbaugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 09:36 AM) They love a part of their body -- it is not disruptive and does not cause a threat to school discipline, so the school technically according to the SC has no recourse legally to ban them from using the shirts. Not disruptive? There's a law suit. That sounds disruptive to me. School uniforms would solve all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Apr 29, 2005 -> 10:36 AM) They love a part of their body -- it is not disruptive and does not cause a threat to school discipline, so the school technically according to the SC has no recourse legally to ban them from using the shirts. COme on Apu, you aren't that far removed from HS... a bunch of teenagers running around with the word "Vagina" on their shirts isn't disruptive? These are the people fart jokes are made for. These are the same kids that snicker everytime an anatomically correct term for any reproductive organ is used. It IS disruptive, I don't think that is even an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Just like the morons who wear the "Big Johnson" T shirts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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