MinnesotaSoxFan Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Jon Garland is following the same path of Esteban Loiaza... Both have had less than perfect starts then for one or two seasons get hot... Just wondering what you people think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(MinnesotaSoxFan @ May 1, 2005 -> 09:50 PM) Jon Garland is following the same path of Esteban Loiaza... Both have had less than perfect starts then for one or two seasons get hot... Just wondering what you people think Difference....Jon was brought up with the Sox AND Jon didn't have 8 straight mediocre to bad seasons before being successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 (edited) Loaiza was also a lot older and was never really good before that... Garland is young, has won 12 the past 3 years and has been developing and becoming better oops, not + Edited May 2, 2005 by T R U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 not to mention he is getting much cuter, and as he matures his sense of style will progress making him even better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(flippedoutpunk @ May 1, 2005 -> 07:52 PM) not to mention he is getting much cuter, and as he matures his sense of style will progress making him even better The soul patch is so cool, I have one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(flippedoutpunk @ May 1, 2005 -> 09:52 PM) not to mention he is getting much cuter I question you sometimes....And I'm worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ May 1, 2005 -> 07:54 PM) I question you sometimes....And I'm worried. dont be worried, im single, i swear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(flippedoutpunk @ May 1, 2005 -> 09:55 PM) dont be worried, im single, i swear :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Trying not to be a downer but Esteban was sensational for pretty much all year and Jon has a long way to go to make it 21 wins but hopefully he'll stay consistent. That said, nobody goes a CG with 4 hits every time out there so it will be itneresting to see exactly what we'll get out of Jon this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagar69 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 nah, theyre nothin alike. Loaiza was known has a 4 or 5 starter and just came outta nowhere, while JG was always supposed to be this kind of pitcher which is why he was a first round draft choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(shagar69 @ May 1, 2005 -> 08:03 PM) nah, theyre nothin alike. Loaiza was known has a 4 or 5 starter and just came outta nowhere, while JG was always supposed to be this kind of pitcher which is why he was a first round draft choice. I'm pretty sure Esteban was a first rounder too but I'm not sure on that. He had high expectations also coming into the league but when he came here he was supposed to be our number 5 guy. Well, Jon's supposed to be our 5th guy too so I guess at first glance there are a couple similarities. Jon has a long way to go but as of right now he's been unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 not drafted, from Mexico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ May 1, 2005 -> 08:11 PM) not drafted, from Mexico Riiiight. I don't know what the hell I was thinking I think I was thinking of Ritchie who I believe was a first or 2nd rounder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Garland always had the potential and unlike Elo would of been on a team no matter what coming into this year while Elo was a non-roster invitee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I much prefer the Kevin Brown comparison. Brown's 1st and 2nd season were better than Garland's, but his 3rd was worse. Brown, in his 4th full year of starting, won 21 games while posting a 3.32 ERA. That is Jon Garland, from the way he has pitched thus far. In fact, when you compare their careers as far as their seasons in the majors are concerned, they are eerily similar. Brown - 89-91, K/BB 1.31, K/9 4.46, BB/9 3.40, WHIP 1.37, ERA 3.81, (coincidentally, he had 12 wins in 89 and 90) - Brown was an above average pitcher Garland - 02-04, K/BB 1.43, K/9 5, BB/9 3.49, WHIP 1.38, ERA 4.67 - Garland was an average pitcher Now... Brown - 92, K/BB 2.22, K/9 5.86, BB/9 2.57, WHIP 1.27, 3.32 ERA - as I mentioned above, 21 wins Garland - 05, K/BB 2.83, K/9 3.92, BB/9 1.38, WHIP 0.79, 1.38 ERA - given, that is through 5 starts, but so long as he stays healthy, it is nearly impossible for him to win 12 games or fewer. He looks like a 20 game winner thus far Brown's control got even better over time, and his K/9 and K/BB started shooting way up, even into the Ben Sheets range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 1, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) I much prefer the Kevin Brown comparison. Brown's 1st and 2nd season were better than Garland's, but his 3rd was worse. Brown, in his 4th full year of starting, won 21 games while posting a 3.32 ERA. That is Jon Garland, from the way he has pitched thus far. In fact, when you compare their careers as far as their seasons in the majors are concerned, they are eerily similar. Brown - 89-91, K/BB 1.31, K/9 4.46, BB/9 3.40, WHIP 1.37, ERA 3.81, (coincidentally, he had 12 wins in 89 and 90) - Brown was an above average pitcher Garland - 02-04, K/BB 1.43, K/9 5, BB/9 3.49, WHIP 1.38, ERA 4.67 - Garland was an average pitcher Now... Brown - 92, K/BB 2.22, K/9 5.86, BB/9 2.57, WHIP 1.27, 3.32 ERA - as I mentioned above, 21 wins Garland - 05, K/BB 2.83, K/9 3.92, BB/9 1.38, WHIP 0.79, 1.38 ERA - given, that is through 5 starts, but so long as he stays healthy, it is nearly impossible for him to win 12 games or fewer. He looks like a 20 game winner thus far Brown's control got even better over time, and his K/9 and K/BB started shooting way up, even into the Ben Sheets range. Ok Juggernaut....what have you done with the real whitesoxfan?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I dont get all these "maybe hes finally getting it" comments Did you expect him to get it when he was 22? 23? Hes 25 now, and after 3 straight years of acceptable seasons (Average yes, but compare it to some of the other crap we had the past few season at the end of the rotation) I wouldnt say he is FINALLY getting it, yet just getting it? Sound fair? If Garland was in the later 20's and was hovering around average to below average every season I think I would be like, FINALLY this guy is getting it but I think the bigger problem was people became impatient with high expectations.. Im just glad that Garland is throwing with such confidence.. its good to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ May 1, 2005 -> 08:29 PM) Ok Juggernaut....what have you done with the real whitesoxfan?!? Have not done a thing with whitesoxfan. Similarities are too apparent to be ignored though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 1, 2005 -> 08:36 PM) Have not done a thing with whitesoxfan. Similarities are too apparent to be ignored though. silence you hippie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ May 1, 2005 -> 10:42 PM) silence you hippie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ May 1, 2005 -> 08:42 PM) silence you hippie Me = right U = wrong So no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxmatt Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 guys, lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Its just the beginning of the year. You are all acting like he will win the Cy Young becuase of his great start. Obviously i hope this is true. But lets wait awhile before we start making a bunch of Jon Garland appreciation threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxmatt @ May 1, 2005 -> 08:47 PM) guys, lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Its just the beginning of the year. You are all acting like he will win the Cy Young becuase of his great start. Obviously i hope this is true. But lets wait awhile before we start making a bunch of Jon Garland appreciation threads. Have you watched him pitch? He will obviously slow down as the year progresses, but Jon is for realz homez. Looks like a 20 game winner right now, and I don't doubt that he could win 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooftop Shots Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Regardless how many he wins, a huge plus that is on his side is that he is able to eat up a lot of innings per start, per year. His smooth mechanics also make him look like he has a better chance of being durable and remaining healthy for long periods of time, compared to someone who is a fireballer with pitching motions that are hard on the body and arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWs OK for Me Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I think JG is a 20 game winner for one reason, he is in the 5 hole, he matches up against 5th starters (for the most part). Here is a list of the fifth starters in the AL: Kevin Gregg, Joe Blanton, Dave Bush, Hideo Nomo, Scott Elarton, Ryan Franklin, Bruce Chen, Pedro Astacio, Bronson Arroyo, Zach Greinke,Wilfredo Ledezma, Joe Mays, Kevin Brown I know that I'd take Garland in any game over any of those guys. If he continues to throw strikes, get the ground ball outs, and continue to limit his walks I dont see why he can't be a 20 game winner this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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