clujer420 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 I feel the Sox could become the Yankees of the Midwest if only our attendace was closer to 3 million than to 2 so we could spend a healthy 75-80 million on assembling a team. We've got the talent to make the playoffs this season, and if our pitching holds up, there's no reason why we couldn't make some noise when we get there. That will give us more revenue, and we could put that towards the '04 payroll, and hopefully do the same in '04 and help '05's payroll. It has to start somewhere, and '03 would be a nice place. Chances are, our attendance will ONLY reach the 3 million range if we advance deep into the post-season this year, and '04's attendance will reap the benefits of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 It has to start somewhere, and '03 would be a nice place. After the catastrophe of last 2 season, I would agree with you. But, in retrospect, it didn't need to happen this way- Twins and Tribe were so much weaker than we made them look whether because of injuries, poor front office decisions or just the good ol' underachieving...This season is a play-off must, don't make any mistake about it for many different reasons. Anything below 95 wins would be uncivilized. In a perfect world, Sox would have a state of the art park by the lake. Then we wouldn't have to worry about "begging" for attendance like they have been doing for almost 10 years. JR will spend on the (unqualified) winner, I think we know that. And Sox are still a big market team, let's not forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 It has to start somewhere, and '03 would be a nice place. After the catastrophe of last 2 season, I would agree with you. But, in retrospect, it didn't need to happen this way- Twins and Tribe were so much weaker than we made them look whether because of injuries, poor front office decisions or just the good ol' underachieving...This season is a play-off must, don't make any mistake about it for many different reasons. Anything below 95 wins would be uncivilized. In a perfect world, Sox would have a state of the art park by the lake. Then we wouldn't have to worry about "begging" for attendance like they have been doing for almost 10 years. JS will spend on the (unqualified) winner, I think we know that. And Sox are still a big market team, let's not forget. I believe Chicago is the #3 market in the US (behind NY and Los Angeles). And I don't understand today's attendance. Probably the best weather we've had so far for a home game, on a Saturday, and we draw under 20,000? WTF is going on? Maybe it's because of the holiday weekend, I don't know -- but I would think that would HELP the attendance, if anything. I don't know what Sox fans are waiting for. If we only draw 40,000 when the Cubs, Twins, and Yankees come to town, don't look for payroll to increase anytime soon, and rightfully so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 Chances are, our attendance will ONLY reach the 3 million range if we advance deep into the post-season this year, and '04's attendance will reap the benefits of it. Sad but true. That's why hating and competing with the lowly Cubs is not just a "luxury" but an economic and otherwise necessity. If they reach the ALCS before the Sox it would be REALLY bad from fairweather fan reqruitment perspective. If they get the WS ring first, it would be nothing short of catastrophe for the Sox- we simply would be "forgotten" by the city...And all that after being the best Chicago baseball team for the better part of the 90s (to say nothing of 20th century!). That's why gross underachievement of the last few years possibly hurt us more than the suprise breakout in 2000 helped. And that's why now more than ever we must prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 That's why hating and competing witth the lowly Cubs is not just a "luxury" but an economic and otherwise necessety. If they reach the ALCS before the Sox it would be REALLY bad from fairweather fan reqruitment perspective. I can GUARANTEE you the Cubs will not make the ALCS anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 And I don't understand today's attendance. Probably the best weather we've had so far for a home game on a Saturday, and we draw under 20,000? WTF is going on? That's because Sox fans are clearly superior to every other fan in the world and know too much about baseball to attend games, silly. Forgive me for saying this, but I would rather Sox become a tourist whore of an organization ala Cubs with stupid fans and corrupt columnists at their disposal...than to see us squander a chance after chance at being a real, bonafied dynasty I've been blasted MANY times way back in '98 for saying that our attendance sucks and it will hurt the team sooner than they might think. With Belle and Ventura gone, and in spite of the 2000 magical year, things have gotten worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 And I don't understand today's attendance. Probably the best weather we've had so far for a home game on a Saturday, and we draw under 20,000? WTF is going on? That's because Sox fans are clearly superior to every other fan in the world and know too much about baseball to attend games, silly. Forgive me for saying this, but I would rather Sox become a tourist whore of an organization ala Cubs with stupid fans and currpt columnist at their disposal...than to see us squander a chance after chance at being a real, bonafied dynasty I've been blasted MANY times way back in '98 for saying that our attendance sucks and it will hurt the team sooner than they might think. With Belle and Ventura gone, and in spite of the 2000 magical year, things have gotten worse. People ripped me the other day when we drew 9,882 against the Royals and I said that Sox fans in Chicago should be ashamed. They defended the sad figure and said "it was horrible weather", "it was a week night", etc. Maybe I was a bit harsh, I'll admit, but.... What's the excuse now? There is none, and it's disgusting IMHO. The fans have to decide if they want us to spend more money or not. If they do, they have to go to games. If they don't go to games, they can't complain when our payroll remains the same every season, because how do you think owners get the money to increase payroll? ATTENDANCE REVENUE, DUH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 If we only draw 40,000 when the Cubs, Twins, and Yankees come to town, don't look for payroll to increase anytime soon, and rightfully so Well, in that case--and I pray to God it doesn't come to fruitition--it's not completely unrealistic for us to end up losing both Colon and Maggs after 2003, not to mention Hurt (why need him if half of the team is gone?). One of Lee/Konerko would have to go and Burhle hightails it out of here the first chance he gets. Did I mention Sox not picking up Valentin's and Loaiza's option? Alomar is out...Gordon...Koch... How about a 2005 team with a 35 million payroll being be led by Jimenez, Harris, Borchard, Dabauch/Lee, Valenzula, Olivo, Crede, Garland, Wright, Cotts, Burhle, Almonte, Rauch and Diaz? Would you like our chances then? Don't get me wrong, 1999 team was fun if anything else, but we still... Not too laugh-worthy is it? The thing is, we are 1-2 missed playoff appearances away from a very sad ending, especially if Cubs come through with a magical year, which is not that improbable since they regularly shell out 80+ million on their staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 If we only draw 40,000 when the Cubs, Twins, and Yankees come to town, don't look for payroll to increase anytime soon, and rightfully so Well, in that case--and I pray to God it doesn't come to fruitition--it's not completely unrealistic for us to end up losing both Colon and Maggs after 2003, not to mention Hurt (why need him if half of the team is gone?). One of Lee/Konerko would have to go and Burhle hightails it out of here the first chance he gets. Did I mention Sox not picking up Valentin's and Loaiza's option? Alomar is out...Gordon...Koch... How about a 2005 team with 35 million payro being be led by Jimenez, Harris, Borchard, Dabauch/Lee, Valenzula, Olivo, Crede, Garland, Wright, Cotts, Burhle, Almonte, Rauch and Diaz? Would you like our chances then? Don't get me wrong, 1999 team was fun if anything else, but we still... Not too laugh-worthy is it? The thing is, we are 1-2 missed playoff appearances away from a very sad ending, especially if Cubs come through with a magical year, which is not that improbable since they regularly shell out 80+ million on their staff. Thanks for depressing me. And it's only upsetting because it's conceivable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 Thanks for depressing me. And it's only upsetting because it's conceivable Don't worry, unless the injury bug hits us again as it did in 2001, we should run away with the division and win 92-95 games. If Frank Thomas returns to his 2000 form, we win 100+. It's that simple. Royals is one of the most overrated teams (talking about playoffs already little b****es) I've ever seenand Minnesota only won last year because we played like utter s***. Now, I agree attendance matters to the Sox as much if not more than most teams because Jerry Reinsdorf is a cold businessman who would need to see the profit before even considering investing and "going for it". Which is fine and dandy...except sports/baseball is NOT just another tire-making industry; it's like art in that it plays with peoples' hopes, dreams and emotions , and profit should never come first to winning. That is what Carl Pohland, Reiny and their ilk will never understand and will go to their grave thinking that "breaking up Bulls was the best thing that happened to them" because they turned a quick buck, you know, "like their Daddy had taught them...". Teams sports should be owned by already super-rich who have passion and patience and are willing, worse case scenario, to lose a third of what they own if it doesn't go well. Hell, they will still be rich...But, no, Reindorf has actually milked all his franchises to the fullest with a smile on his face. Speaking of profits, did you know Sox actually made a profit in 1999, 2000 and broke even in 2001 despite having dismal, promotion-ladden 50% capacity crowds most of the time? That means Sox are in much better financial shape than they would lead you to believe, especially with the luxury tax, CBA, etc...surprise, surprise! And the market share is still up for grabs Cubbine or no Cubbine. Just don't expect any help from Uncle Jerry- he will only spend the 75+ million required to re-sign key players and possible make an upgrade or two if the Sox a) dominate during the season and make noise in the payoffs and b) Sox fans come in droves averaging at least 30 thou a game as early as this season. Remember this guy is cunning enough to make statements like "I would trade 6 Bulls rings for one Sox championship" which is not only ridiculously dishonest but is also an insult to Bulls fans (I am not one of them) everywhere. No wonder Michael Jordan would rather work at Burger King than to have anytihng to do with JR/JK/Bulls....Can you blame him? Sox fans get off your lazy butts and fancy Internets, and GO SEE THE GAMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 all we can do is attend games ourselves and try and drag a few friends along..ive made two games already...6 tickets worth... as far as everyone else...well riensdorf made massive amounts of enemies with sox fans for his stand on the strike in '94 and the white flag trade in '97...we lost about 1/3 of our fan base after the white flag trade and they aint coming back...you can say its stupid or whatever but no one who needs to hear that will because they are not following this team anymore..and its been 6 years so like i said, they aint coming back... we just dont have a big enough fan base anymore to draw from...go to baseballreference.com if you dont believe me...attendance was fine until 97..it went in the crapper in '98 and never came back...people can argue whether the white flag trade was good but all you have to do is look at the attendance to see it was a huge mistake...one that's probably not fixable until either reinsdorf sells the team or we win a world series.. there is no ot her excuse the park??..its fine..the upgrades put it in the top 10 in baseball the neighborhood??..youre 10 times more like to get assaulted at wrigley we dont win??..we were the 5th winningest franchise in baseball through the 90's what is it then??..gotta be reinsdorf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 They stole 7 beases on Mike Piazza 2wice. Which gos to show the Marlins are a running team for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 as far as everyone else...well riensdorf made massive amounts of enemies with sox fans for his stand on the strike in '94 and the white flag trade in '97...we lost about 1/3 of our fan base after the white flag trade and they aint coming back...you can say its stupid or whatever but no one who needs to hear that will because they are not following this team anymore..and its been 6 years so like i said, they aint coming back... Are you saying we lost half of our fans between '94, '97 and after 2001 (many fairweather fans who latched on in 2000 jumped off just as fast) seasons? That's catastrophic if it's true but I don't think it is. That's literally 10,000s of fans if you count suburbs and everytihng. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 what is it then??..gotta be reinsdorf... As a Sox fan, it's self-defeating to not attend games just to spite Jerry Reinsdorf. It's only going to hurt the team in the long run. I don't understand that hateful behavior. If you like a team and want them to improve, SUPPORT THEM! Otherwise, just sit back and watch them waste an opportunity to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 O God...if the Cubs reach the World Series before us... Lets be realistic, the Cubs and Sox have about equal chance of making it to the WS. Barring injuries, the Cubs rotation is phenomenal with the Wood, Prior, Clement combo and is certainly a match for Buerhle, Colon, Garland. Their offense has scored over 10 runs in the last few games. I'd say they have a darn good chance. But of course, both Chicago teams have not done so well in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 O God...if the Cubs reach the World Series before us... Lets be realistic, the Cubs and Sox have about equal chance of making it to the WS. Barring injuries, the Cubs rotation is phenomenal with the Wood, Prior, Clement combo and is certainly a match for Buerhle, Colon, Garland. Their offense has scored over 10 runs in the last few games. I'd say they have a darn good chance. But of course, both Chicago teams have not done so well in the playoffs. Some good conversation thus far....very entertaining to read. 247....the Cubs have scored 10 runs a game because their offense is on f***ing fire. Once their offense cools off a bit....they'll be a .500 or worse team. They don't have the developed talent to win 90 games. I know this has been asked before...but it's gotten me scared thinking about it. Say in the next few years...the Sox and Cubs are both tearing it up. Both make the playoffs...and cruise through them. They meet in the World Series....what the hell happens to the city of Chicago as we know it? I couldn't imagine what the fans of either side would do at the end. That'd be f***ing hell. There is no interleague rivalry quite like the White Sox and Cubs.....and IMO, there never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 That'd be f***ing hell. There is no interleague rivalry quite like the White Sox and Cubs.....and IMO, there never will be. Yeah that's gonna get ugly. One thing though, it will get much better ratings than the Subway Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Every year JM says they are going to be aggressive and run more.............and they NEVER do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 That'd be f***ing hell. There is no interleague rivalry quite like the White Sox and Cubs.....and IMO, there never will be. Yeah that's gonna get ugly. One thing though, it will get much better ratings than the Subway Series. Not only because there's more interest...but because all the sports stations....regardless of what bias they have....will talk about the fact that one of the two longest World Series droughts would have to come to an end. You thought that Oakland was rioting after they lost the Superbowl this past year....that'd probably be what would happen after every game in the World Series. For one of the few times that I can think of....that World Series would be the biggest sporting event for the entire sporting year. Nothing, and I mean nothing would be able to match that. Even if it was a sweep where one team got totally dominated....people would be tuning in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 go to the tribunes archives and read the s*** that happened in '06..the had a big expose on it in '00...people were throwing themselves off buildings...alderman from the southside were have northsiders arrested and visa versa depending on the home team...it was friggen nuts..i cant begin to imagine what would happen this time..look at all the fights during interleague play???..now in the world series the visiting teams get more tickets so there would be more sox fans at wrigley and more scrub fans at the cell...i honestly think after about 2 games the series would have to be moved out of chicago...we have to call in the 3rd id as a security force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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