Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Seriously, why is this guy often the first guy out of the pen? He has a terrible ERA thus far and I don't think he's pitched that well save for a couple of games. From what I can gather, Ozzie has assigned these roles: Cotts long relief (ye olde Carlos Castillo role), Vizcaino seems to be the sixth/seventh inning guy, Politte also sixth/seventh, Marte 8th and Hermanson/Takatsu 9th. Why isn't Politte the first guy out of the pen over Luis? Last friday Ozzie went to Vizcaino first and almost immediately we were in trouble. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 3, 2005 -> 11:37 AM) Seriously, why is this guy often the first guy out of the pen? He has a terrible ERA thus far and I don't think he's pitched that well save for a couple of games. From what I can gather, Ozzie has assigned these roles: Cotts long relief (ye olde Carlos Castillo role), Vizcaino seems to be the sixth/seventh inning guy, Politte also sixth/seventh, Marte 8th and Hermanson/Takatsu 9th. Why isn't Politte the first guy out of the pen over Luis? Last friday Ozzie went to Vizcaino first and almost immediately we were in trouble. What gives? You have to use everyone in your pen to keep them fresh for when you need them, not to mention the fact that you can't pitch Politte every single game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 We were coming off of a day off on thursday and a day game on wednesday. In my mind, Politte was available friday.... I understand wanting to use Vizcaino "to keep him fresh" but as soon as they said his name over the airwaves I had Friday chalked up as a loss. I hate to say it, but that's how I feel about that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Vizcaino is not a very reliable reliever. Two seasons ago, he was one of the worst relievers in baseball. Also, he's lost a few mph off of his fastball. He used to throw about 94 mph with a slider and a splitter. However, he's been throwing almost all sliders to go along with a 91 mph fastball. Politte has been much more impressive so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 We'v enever had a Sox team like this that seemed to literally require the better parts of the bullpen every single game. Due to that, we have to make some decisions that look iffy at the time in the long term interests. That said, Ozzie doesn't always seem to have the longer view he should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I think Viz stats are a touch misleading, he got lit up in that Cleveland game where he had to pitch a long time since he was the last reliever. I don't think he's the greatest of all time, but I think he's serviceable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 even if we completely take out the Cleveland debacle, he is still not very good: 11IP, 12H, 5ER, 3BB, 6K, 4.09ERA, 1.27WHIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox It To Em Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:02 PM) even if we completely take out the Cleveland debacle, he is still not very good: 11IP, 12H, 5ER, 3BB, 6K, 4.09ERA, 1.27WHIP True, but not bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 yeah, but my whole point is...is this the first guy you want out of the pen in a 1-1 game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:02 PM) even if we completely take out the Cleveland debacle, he is still not very good: 11IP, 12H, 5ER, 3BB, 6K, 4.09ERA, 1.27WHIP For a middle innings guy, there is nothing wrong with those numbers. There are a lot of teams that would kill for those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ May 3, 2005 -> 11:57 AM) I think Viz stats are a touch misleading, he got lit up in that Cleveland game where he had to pitch a long time since he was the last reliever. I don't think he's the greatest of all time, but I think he's serviceable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox It To Em Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:07 PM) For a middle innings guy, there is nothing wrong with those numbers. There are a lot of teams that would kill for those numbers. Agreed. A 4.00 ERA is hardly unimpressive for a MR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 yeah, but he doesn't have a 4.00 era. I am discounting his worst outing! Discount every other middle reliever's worst outing and they probably all have ERA's under 3.00. Go ahead, pick any mediocre (not BAD, mind you) reliever and try it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 When it comes to relief pitching you really need to look at their pitch count stats because there are great disparities between the players there. Vizcaino has a history of being a very good 15 pitch man. That's usually good enough for 1 inning. He has a history fo being a very bad 2nd inning guy. Solution? Don't use him for more than 1 inning. Shingo is the same way only he's one of the most dominant 15 pitch man in the league. Or at least he was in 2004. Again, don't use him for more than 1 inning. Cotts is to experience & unproven to use for anything more than 1 inning unless it's a mop up situation. The long men are Politte, Hermy, & Marte. These are the guys that have career numbers that are good over 2+ innings pitched. Of the three Marte is the best. He's not the best 15 pitch guy but over 30-40 pitches or 2 innings he ranks with the best of them. Hermy would be next followed by Politte. Hermy of course has the most experience in going long & putting up reasonably good numbers in the process. Games in which both Marte & Hermy appeared: Apr 7, Apr 13(sv), Apr 15(sv), Apr 19(sv), Apr 27, Apr 29, Apr 30(sv). There were only 3 games where they appeared in the same game w/out a sv opportunity. What I expect to see in May: Politte will be the #1 guy used following a starter. Vizcaino will be slated for setup, Cotts has a specialist or mopper. Marte & Hermy as hold men, situational closers, & Shingo relief. Shingo as the primary closer. With the SP going long he's got a lot of options & more room for error than most managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:13 PM) yeah, but he doesn't have a 4.00 era. I am discounting his worst outing! Discount every other middle reliever's worst outing and they probably all have ERA's under 3.00. Go ahead, pick any mediocre (not BAD, mind you) reliever and try it.... Sure when you take an outing that was obviously not what you were just desribing his usuage as. He was going into his 4th inning of work, and threw enough pitches to just about qualify as a 5th starters outing. Keep in mind that Vizcaino is a one inning pitcher, no doubt. Of course you are going to discount that outing. As would any manager or general manager who was trying to assess his potential value to a team. Do you honestly believe they would look at his 8 era and say forget it? Or would they know that that outing was something you would never ask Vizcaino to do again, and not worry about it. They would actually look at how he did his job, not someone elses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 3, 2005 -> 12:25 PM) Sure when you take an outing that was obviously not what you were just desribing his usuage as. He was going into his 4th inning of work, and threw enough pitches to just about qualify as a 5th starters outing. Keep in mind that Vizcaino is a one inning pitcher, no doubt. Of course you are going to discount that outing. As would any manager or general manager who was trying to assess his potential value to a team. Do you honestly believe they would look at his 8 era and say forget it? Or would they know that that outing was something you would never ask Vizcaino to do again, and not worry about it. They would actually look at how he did his job, not someone elses. interesting assessment considering Vizcaino has worked more than 1 inning in 6 of his 10 outings this season. Are you sure Ozzie knows he's only a "one inning pitcher, no doubt"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:29 PM) interesting assessment considering Vizcaino has worked more than 1 inning in 6 of his 10 outings this season. Are you sure Ozzie knows he's only a "one inning pitcher, no doubt"? Who knows what Ozzie knows. Looking at Vizcainos outings, he is a one inning pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 3, 2005 -> 12:30 PM) Who knows what Ozzie knows. Looking at Vizcainos outings, he is a one inning pitcher. I agree with you. But I also think he's definitely not a first option pitcher. I would only go to him in the 7th with at least a 2 run lead. I definitely would not hand him the ball with a tie ball game when Politte was available! Tie game or 1 run either way, I'm going Politte, Marte, Hermanson and possibly Takatsu. If I need someone to go 1+ it's Hermanson and frankly, I don't really care if Vizcaino is getting his work in or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Also, if I remember correctly Viz technically wasn't supposed to be available for that game. I think he had thrown in both of the 2 previous games and was supposed to have the night off. That being said, he still pitched a scoreless inning or two before they got to him. It was a pretty gutsy outing if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Too many sliders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:32 PM) I agree with you. But I also think he's definitely not a first option pitcher. I would only go to him in the 7th with at least a 2 run lead. I definitely would not hand him the ball with a tie ball game when Politte was available! Tie game or 1 run either way, I'm going Politte, Marte, Hermanson and possibly Takatsu. If I need someone to go 1+ it's Hermanson and frankly, I don't really care if Vizcaino is getting his work in or not. The big problem with Politte is that left handers KILL him. Vizcaino's historical splite are much more balanced, in fact they are almost contra-splits. He pitches better against lefties than righties, and noticiably better at that. Lefties hit 100 points better against Cliff (.199 vs .297) where as Vizcaino is .237 against RH and .200 against lefties over the last 3 years. If a manager pinch hits a lefty while Cliff is in there, it makes him difficult to use early. He is a better option to bring against a tough righty, instead of starting an inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 (edited) Hey Gene.....who knew Podsednik would hit 74 home runs this quickly, huh? Edited May 3, 2005 by Hideaway Lights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I heard he got those new contacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:42 PM) I heard he got those new contacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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